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Old 03-26-2012, 04:36 PM   #801
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regarding the sharpening questions i get mine at larrys. yes its on lonsdale in north van so its far for most people i assume, but luckily my gf lives in nv so its not so bad for me. anyways its just one guy who does all the sharpenings and he does a really good job. after my 3rd game my skates are still pretty sharp when compared to cyclones in vancouver. its a tad more expensive and sometimes you may have to wait for a day to get yours sharpend as he usually has alot of skates to do, but give them a try if no where else makes you happy
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Old 03-26-2012, 05:02 PM   #802
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I'm not overly picky with skate sharpens, and hate it when they are done too sharp/edgy. I can usually get 7-10 ice times on a sharpen.

I used to get 3/4" done and could usually tell when the sharpeners were too lazy to change the wheel from 3/8 or 1/2. I've had good and bad sharpens from Cyclones, Sports Exchange, Sport Chek, so for me I just go to wherever is most convenient for me which is usually Sport Chek these days.

I'm on a 90/75 FBV which works pretty well for me. I've yet to have a bad FBV done at Sport Chek; I've had it done at Metro and Richmond Center few times each so far without issue.
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:32 PM   #803
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Totally agree with the tape. I find sock tape works much better than those straps but it does feel more wasteful.
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:56 PM   #804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UFO View Post
I'm not overly picky with skate sharpens, and hate it when they are done too sharp/edgy. I can usually get 7-10 ice times on a sharpen.

I used to get 3/4" done and could usually tell when the sharpeners were too lazy to change the wheel from 3/8 or 1/2. I've had good and bad sharpens from Cyclones, Sports Exchange, Sport Chek, so for me I just go to wherever is most convenient for me which is usually Sport Chek these days.

I'm on a 90/75 FBV which works pretty well for me. I've yet to have a bad FBV done at Sport Chek; I've had it done at Metro and Richmond Center few times each so far without issue.
do you find that you have less edges with FBV than opposed to a regular hollow cut?
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Old 03-26-2012, 08:47 PM   #805
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It feels less edgy but still has bite when I need it and I don't lose an edge with FBV any more than when I had regular hollow. All in my edges feel smoother and easier to control.

When I had regular hollow, I started at 1/2, then 5/8, then settled at 3/4 which still felt too edgy when fresh but pretty good after 1-2 ice sessions. FBV feels pretty good right off the bat
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:18 AM   #806
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Has anyone had a precision balance before?
Precision Skate Sharpening - Profile2

Talking to the guys at "source for sports" in South Surrey, and they swear by the process. It's basically taking an off the shelf blade, and countouring it to your stance, size, and weight. It's $60, and takes about an hour, but I'm not sure yet. I'm heavy on my toes in net because it helps me maintain that attack mindset and allows me to hit the ice faster.

Anyway, I've been debating having this done.

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Precision Balance is a proven method of skate sharpening and contouring that will enhance your skating ability and performance on the ice. Speed, Power, Balance and Stability are just some of the critical elements of skating that can be affected as a result of sharpening and more importantly contouring.

At Source For Sports® we take your game seriously and Precision Balance can help elevate your performance and your game.

Precision Balance Sharpening

Precision Balance Sharpening addresses all of the inherent variable that affect the skate blade so that a better quality sharpening can be achieved. Blade thickness for example can reduce the bite angle of your blade and can ultimately cause slippage while your leg is at full extension during the skating stride.

Precision Balance Sharpening delivers:
  • A quality finish
  • Proper radius of hollow that is centered on the blade
  • Smooth square edges

Our attention to detail ensures the best shapening possible!

What is contouring?

Contouring is the process of controlling the “APEX” of the blade radius through a machining process. This enables the skate technician to control the amount of knee bend as well as the position the body in the proper location over the skate blades, thus, affecting the body’s balance and power generation.

WHAT IS PRECISION BALANCE CONTOURING?

Precision Balance contouring is a process of transferring the mechanical points of the foot directly to the skate blade.

Our personalized analysis system enables the technician to establish the correct “radius” and “lie” required prior to performing any machine work.

ELEMENTS ADDRESSED
  • Age, height and weight
  • Arm length in relation to the shoulder to floor distance
  • Leg shape – knock kneed, straight or bowed out.
  • Foot position while walking – toed in, toed out or straight
  • Position played
  • Brand of skate used

BENEFITS OF PRECISION BALANCE CONTOURED SKATES
  • Injury reduction
  • Controlled leg extension
  • Increased stability
  • Increased lateral movement
  • Increased power
  • Reduced fatigue
  • Improved balance
  • Increased agility
  • Increased speed

WHY CONSIDER CONTOURING SKATES AT ALL?

Skates are very generic in design and have many inherent variables, which can affect efficiency and performance. It is not feasible to expect that a manufacturer could build a skate that is exactly right for every individual’s requirements.

The Precision Balance system of transferring the mechanical point of the foot directly to the skate blade eliminates the most common variable present on skates today. This area is the inconsistent installation location of the holder and blade assemblies on the sole plate of the skate.

WHAT EFFECT DOES THIS HAVE ON THE BODY?

Firstly, we have to remember that the blade has a radius, which runs from the front to the back. (This is the same as standing on a large ball.) If on blade assembly is mounted further ahead on the sole plate (or boot) than the other, numerous things happen. The apex or high points of the blades are in different locations under each foot. This causes balance problems and also forces the skater to be back on their heels. This means that the skater must overpower the skate in order to have knee bend and to drive off the big toe. This also induces fatigue at a higher pace.

Pelvic misalignment can also be induced when on blade is mounted ahead of the other. (Remember that the body is standing on a piece of radiused steel with all the weight being applied at only one end.) The blade that is mounted further than the other blade will roll back into the rear radius further than the other blade. This created misalignment as the actual height of the soleplate from the ice is reduced in relation to the other skate.

SKATING MECHANICS

The body as it was designed was only meant to propel itself in a forward direction with any degree of efficiency.

Skating involves completely different mechanics, as the body was not designed to propel itself on rigid foot beds with radiused steel beneath.

To propel the body in skating the foot must be abducted (moved away from the body) which is produced through external rotation of the hips. (This also explains why women have better lateral movement than men.) While skating the skate and the body actually move in opposite directions. Power, control and efficiency are determined by the stance that the body has over the skate blades and is completely controlled by the layout and configuration of the blades.

HOW IS BALANCE ACHIEVED?

The work radius must be located within the parameters of the mechanical points of the foot and the apex of the blade must also be properly positioned within the work radius in order for the weight to be distributed properly.

The body’s weight enters the boot through the tibia. If machined properly, the arch of the foot will transfer and distribute the weight evenly between the ball of the foot and the heel. This allows the foot to contact the ice on the centre of the blade and to drive off the big toe creating power. If the rear radius passes the balance point of the body and creeps up into the work radius, gravity will take over forcing all the body’s weight onto the heels.

HOW IS POWER PRODUCED?

Power is produced through controlled knee bend which produces positive draw on the Achilles tendon. This is achieved by changing the pitch or ‘lie’ of the skate. More ‘lie’ equals more knee bend, which produces more power. Prior analysis determines the correct ‘lie’ for each individual before any machining is performed.

WHAT ARE THE MOST COMMON SIGNS THAT CONTOURING IS REQUIRED?
  • Short, choppy strides (players feet are going a mile-a-minute, yet doesn’t have much speed)
  • Poor balance (Excessive falling during pivots, cornering or without any outside assistance)
  • When hit, usually falls backwards
  • Loses battles along the boards and in the corners
  • Uncontrolled, excessive height on snap shots and slap shots
  • Weak backhand shots
  • Cannot find a stick with proper feeling ‘lie’
  • Lower back pain (usually on one side only), aching knees and or sore groin
  • Fatigues excessively quick
  • The tendon guards on the skates are broken down (the should remain stiff for the life of the skate)
  • Excessive wear in the heel area of the boot (blisters or sore heels)

ADDITIONAL BENEFITS
  • Improved edge control
  • Improved acceleration
  • Improved speed and agility
  • Improved confidence allows player to attack smaller spaces
  • Regain and recover balance quicker

Sounds pretty good to me.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:19 PM   #807
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I've read about getting a proper radius would help a tonne in terms of skating ability. Haven't thought much about getting it done since I'm still learning my edges. For $60 it seems like a good investment.

If you do decide to do it PLEASE PLEASE give us your feedback because I think having proper skates is a good advantage of other equipment.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:20 PM   #808
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I believe there are benefits to profiling and radiusing, but I have never looked into it personally as the return on investment for me is not there. I don't play at a high enough level where I find the 'stock' profile of the steel to be holding me back. My skating mechanics are not perfect nor consistent, and its hard to accommodate for consistency and technique with profiling the skate blade. That, and the contour/profile gets lost with regular sharpening depending on how much steel and where the steel is removed by your sharpener, it decreases the benefits even further.

As a high level skater, the profiling can provide noticeable benefits. Mid level skater, questionably justifiable. Goalie, I would say not worth it.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:16 PM   #809
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Lol I fit into a bunch of those categories for contouring lol

So after the intial contouring do you need to continue to take it there for sharpening?
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:19 PM   #810
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If you do decide to do it PLEASE PLEASE give us your feedback because I think having proper skates is a good advantage of other equipment.
I'm going to give it a shot on my goalie skates to start, and if it works well I'll have my player skates done too.

Keep posted, I'll have my skates done this week, and put up a review next week after playing a couple of games.



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Goalie, I would say not worth it.
I respectfully disagree.
As a goalie, I need to be one of the best skaters on the ice. There are no second chances for a goalie, as we're the last line of defense. I spend so much time at open skates, and free skates just working on basics like x-overs, pivots, c-cuts, stops, backwards skating, etc because I use all of those skills numerous times during a game. The goalie needs to be a great skater, or a good shooter will skate around him.

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So after the intial contouring do you need to continue to take it there for sharpening?
Nope.
From what I was told, you can get sharpening anywhere once the balance is done. Personally, I love the guys at Blatzy's in Langley, as they really seem to care about my skates. Plus they can talk different sized cuts (goalie stuff) for a different feel.
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:46 PM   #811
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^ after having mine done at hockey shop this past week, i think i highly prefer Blatzy's sharpening now that ive played a game with it
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Old 03-27-2012, 04:59 PM   #812
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Lol, its crazy dude.
After playing a couple games on a bad sharpening, i have a ton of love for someone who cares. Good blades are pricey, and i dont want to have to change blades twice a season.

Do you ever play drop in around Langley?
The level of competition at twin rinks is pretty high during the daytime games, and insane at the night sessions. Sportsplex is pretty good too, while the Events Center is usually empty.
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:57 PM   #813
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played ASHL this past season at Twin rinks and sub at 8 rinks, not much drop in due to work commitments
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:07 PM   #814
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Can all shops do FBV sharpening? Or is the majority of them doing ROH sharpenings only?
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:10 PM   #815
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I respectfully disagree.
As a goalie, I need to be one of the best skaters on the ice. There are no second chances for a goalie, as we're the last line of defense. I spend so much time at open skates, and free skates just working on basics like x-overs, pivots, c-cuts, stops, backwards skating, etc because I use all of those skills numerous times during a game. The goalie needs to be a great skater, or a good shooter will skate around him.
Fair enough. As a part time goalie also, I understand the importance of skating technique.

But the contouring and profiling, as far as I understand it, will help with edge control on tight turns, more efficient and powerful strides, forward to back transitions, all of which would benefit the skater more than the goalie.

As I explained IMO its still more important to work on the consistency and quality of skating technique than to try and fix poor habits or mechanics with profiling. I'm not a high level player or high level goalie, and I'm a cheapass overall that cringes when a sharpening costs more than $6, so unless the profiling will make me shoot and skate like Pavel Bure, I really can't justify that cost. But I am curious too what difference you notice playing goal with the profiling

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Can all shops do FBV sharpening? Or is the majority of them doing ROH sharpenings only?
It would depend on the machine they use. This http://www.blackstonesport.com/produ...product_id=283 can do both
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:56 AM   #816
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regarding the sharpening questions i get mine at larrys. yes its on lonsdale in north van so its far for most people i assume, but luckily my gf lives in nv so its not so bad for me. anyways its just one guy who does all the sharpenings and he does a really good job. after my 3rd game my skates are still pretty sharp when compared to cyclones in vancouver. its a tad more expensive and sometimes you may have to wait for a day to get yours sharpend as he usually has alot of skates to do, but give them a try if no where else makes you happy
I've used them before and I didn't even have it in me to finish that 10pack punch card that I bought from them.



I agree that the quality of their work is great, but their service in my subjective opinion is really lacking (or terrible). Like you mentioned, most of the time, they require that you leave your skates over night for sharpening which is totally not cool with my habits.

Usually because I really only want to make 1 trip to get my skates sharpened. Not two. And so much so that I wouldn't mind waiting half an hour for service (when it's busy) so that I don't have to make a secondary trip.

Thirdly, I've always thought the reason why their service was far from being expedient was because they only have 1 sharpening machine where as most tech shops I see has 2. Considering the volume they get, I don't understand why they don't get 2. And I doubt it's really only 1 guy; because I do somewhat recall getting my skates sharpened by more than 1 person.


Fourthly (if that's even a word). I really really really hate it when they're not busy, and I drop in for a skate sharpen, yet they still require me to leave my skates overnight and put my skates in queu.

It just sort of gives a bad impression when they have lines of skates waiting for sharpening, and they're not really doing anything, and this causes you to have to make two trips for a service they can complete within 5 or so minutes.


But yeah, this may not bother some but I when I was living in DT, their system peeved me due to my distance to their location. But,if not for their service, it's actually some great sharpening.

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Old 03-28-2012, 01:12 AM   #817
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I've read about getting a proper radius would help a tonne in terms of skating ability. Haven't thought much about getting it done since I'm still learning my edges. For $60 it seems like a good investment.

If you do decide to do it PLEASE PLEASE give us your feedback because I think having proper skates is a good advantage of other equipment.
I play with profiled and it's a bit of an odd experience. I don't know if I got the terminology correct but I use an 11" rocker with a little forward lean.


Anyways, it feels great but its somewhat odd. It won't make you a better player nor a better skater, but you'll just feel more comfortable on your feet when you're out there playing.

The thing about it is that the benefits of a profiled skate goes away over time as continued sharpening will erode the profile. Why I say it's somewhat odd (or funny) is because it's sooooo gradual, you don't even feel the profiling of your skates deteriorate. So before you know it, you won't even realize that you're playing with a completely eroded profile and you start to wonder... was there really a difference between profile or non-profiled blade. Anyways, the answer is still yes, but it's nothing overly drastic that I would say, getting it done will suddenly make you a better player, or by not getting it done, will make you a poorer player. It just seems to feel better.

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Old 03-28-2012, 01:17 AM   #818
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Can all shops do FBV sharpening? Or is the majority of them doing ROH sharpenings only?
I know for a fact that metro sportchek does FBV. Not sure about other locations.
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Old 03-28-2012, 07:34 AM   #819
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Old 03-28-2012, 08:08 AM   #820
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Profiling skates benefit those that a) are good skaters and b) brand new steel

When I bought my skates new, I had them profiled. Since changing steel twice, I didn't bother getting them profiled.

As a decent skater, not worth it imo.

As Noir posted, skate sharpening is just grinding off material from the blades to get that edge. Some people don't push hard enough on the skates during the sharpening process, and some people push too hard or even worse, they start off light and end pushing very hard.

Even if you ask for a specific hollow, some people just don't do it right.

When I first started playing hockey, I went to the neighbourhood hockey shop to get my skates sharped. He would go front to back with the sharpening and so an the end of the season, I still had lots of material at the front of the skates but not much material at the back of the skates. Imaging reversed rocker.

I always ask for 7/16's hollow. For a while, I had it written on the bottom of my skates so the guy sharpening the skates will see it and remember to change the wheel.
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:01 AM   #821
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It won't make you a better player nor a better skater, but you'll just feel more comfortable on your feet when you're out there playing.
Isn't this a contradiction?
I mean, if you're more comfortable with the performance of your skates, won't that change the way you play? For example, going into the corner faster knowing that you'll be able to stop harder? Or maybe pushing a bit more and beating the other guy to the puck? For me, I play spectacular on a fresh sharpening. My game is actually different, because I am more confident in my skates. That's like going to an autoX with r-comps, vs mud/snow tires.

Hockey is like any sport where one little advantage won't make you any better. But a bunch of little advantages will add up. Just look at the changes in the last few years in composite sticks, new blade technologies, and lightweight blade runners and you'll see why regular Joe's can play better by using better equipment.

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I still had lots of material at the front of the skates but not much material at the back of the skates. Imaging reversed rocker.
That's horrible!
I bet that the angles you used to compensate would be enough to throw off your game.

ouch.
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Old 03-28-2012, 11:52 AM   #822
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Isn't this a contradiction?
I mean, if you're more comfortable with the performance of your skates, won't that change the way you play? For example, going into the corner faster knowing that you'll be able to stop harder? Or maybe pushing a bit more and beating the other guy to the puck? For me, I play spectacular on a fresh sharpening. My game is actually different, because I am more confident in my skates. That's like going to an autoX with r-comps, vs mud/snow tires.
To be honest, I have no clue.

I mean yes, I was more comfortable on my skates, but it's not like it had any tangible effects ie. My goal production increased, I was doing finesse moves I previously wasn't able to do.

In contrast, when my blades gradually loses it's profile to non-existence, I also don't alternatively see any negative impacts in my game. ie drop off in goal production, mobility, etc.

Yet, I don't know why I still buy into it. It just somehow feels better.


I suppose the closest parrallel I can example how it equates to me is like other items in hockey like the blade wax. I understand it's technical merits. But having that item continously keeping the snow off your blades isn't going to increase your goal production or make you a better stick handler like you were without it. But for some reason we all use it.


There's a factor in hockey that I haven't quite figured out how much is actually a technical merit, and how much of it is all in my head; and I've been playing a long time. Maybe it's that silly superstitious culture within the sport that has me repeating things, whether they actually have technical merit or not.
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Old 03-28-2012, 12:24 PM   #823
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There's a factor in hockey that I haven't quite figured out how much is actually a technical merit, and how much of it is all in my head; and I've been playing a long time. Maybe it's that silly superstitious culture within the sport that has me repeating things, whether they actually have technical merit or not.
hahaha, you hit that one on the head. It is such a superstitious culture, and that in itself is dangerous. I used to freak out if I forgot my "special" compression shirt, or worse yet if I got the east side net as opposed to the west net. It would actually affect my game, which is crazy when you think about it. But until I started coaching, I really fell into the traps of superstition. Teaching the younger generation about things like positioning and stance are easy. But I really had to accept the power of thought, and learn how to get over superstition, bad goals, bad calls, etc before I could teach others how to do it.

Now the only piece of underwear I care about are proper socks, because the wrong socks will cause blisters, and that's a real problem out there.

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Superstitions are strange. Just look at the idea of a playoff beard.
Some players don't wash their jock straps till the end of the season. I bet all the GF/Wives love that.

But at the same time, it is also that placedo effect. It makes them at ease and have more confidence when you tell them repeatedly that the water they are drinking has a special ingredient.

As for profiling, I found that it made the most difference when going from well worn steel to brand new steel. The new steel is pretty straight. Think about a speed skater's skates. This makes tight turns a little bit tougher if you are used to it being slightly profiled.

From sharpen to sharpen you won't notice the change though.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:21 PM   #825
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Originally Posted by Noir View Post
Anyways, it feels great but its somewhat odd. It won't make you a better player nor a better skater, but you'll just feel more comfortable on your feet when you're out there playing.

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This prob best describes countour profiling. I tried a few yrs ago with my current skates and have done it since replacing my steel. I'll do it again when I replace the steel this summer. It makes it feel more natural as well.
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