REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

997turbo · 02-19-2009, 09:20 AM

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So on last Friday I called MCL Porsche in Vancouver BC and talked to the service guy, Ray regarding putting on my clutch and LWFW for my turbo.
I told him I rather go through him since he was a dealership(stealership)
and but that MBeuros had offered me a rate of 13/hrs and at 80 dollars an hour. He then told me he could "match" it and would like the car brought in on monday. So Monday came around I brought the car in and left him with it, along with a $50 dollar certificate for a steakhouse which I gave to Ray for Xmas but with I lost for a while. I called him later that day to see what was going on and he told me they havent even started with the car yet so tuesday rolls around and I call them and they still havent worked on the car yet again. The next day on Wednesday I call them early when they opened up and asked whats going on. He told me that they are working on the transmission soon. I then ask about the bushings , and they said the bushings are gonna take a while and they do not reccomend them at which I say I want them on but at that point I told Ray I wanted to get the bill printed up because I needed to know what the damage would be with bushings. ( I guess a warning light popped up in my brain for me because why would they not want to put the bushings on?) They told me it was 130/hr at 13 hours. (Not including bushings)
The clutch and flywheel was done at 3pm on Wednesday which means it was impossible for them to charge 13 hours. And on top of that when I complained he said well there nothing they can do they already did the tranny and flywheel and they they want to give the car back and are charging me 13 hours not including the alignment. So now they are making me pay for the bill with the suspension not even done.

When I told him that was not the quote they gave me he said yes it was and that he said he match the labour hours not the rate. That doesnt even make sense to me because originaly I called in to ask the bottom line for the job, not how long it would take to do it. He didnt call me back on wednesday but this morning I got a call from the service manager and he said I better pay for the bill and take my car. I am trying not to take this personal but afraid I have. So basically they are overcharging me for the job quoted, they lied to me on the intial quote, and who else knows what I should be concerned about leaving my car to a bunch of low life thieves. at the stealership. I plan to call 1800PORSCHE but am afraid there nothing they can do...

Raid3n · 02-19-2009, 10:12 AM

making a complaint to the head office is all you can really do if the managers are uncooperative.

and for future work, don't go back there. nothing hurts more than lost business.

LemonH2O · 02-19-2009, 10:25 AM

When a service advisor quotes you for a job, you agree and sign the work order, which is basically a contract. They could and did charge you the 13 hours because that's what you signed for. That's why before you sign for any work, always be prepared to pay what you are signing for regardless of the hours they actually spend on your car.

Most jobs (clutch, brakes etc.) have a set paid rate for the technician. For example, new brake pads and machining rotors pay the technician 1.7 hrs regardless of how long it actually takes them. That's how they make the most money, doing set paid jobs quicker so they make time and move on to the next car.

As far as my knowledge goes (not familiar with porshe though) replacing clutch pays a set time, for Hondas, Toyotas anyway. So say an experienced tech replaces it in 8 hours, but the dealership's set rate is 13 hours, you pay the 13, again because you were quoted and signed the 13. There's no way to argue around that even if you've been sitting at home watching the clock tick away.

Bender Unit · 02-19-2009, 10:46 AM

^ I don't think he sign anything yet ? but oral contract or verbal contract instead

I will go ask back the $50 Gift Card & never go back to MCL again

My Brain need a rest after reading OP post...

Mugen EvOlutioN · 02-19-2009, 10:52 AM

i dont think that $50 dollar GC is the maint concern right now

that $130/hr x 13hrs is the big fish he is worried

VR6GTI · 02-19-2009, 10:58 AM

that sucks, when i was reading your post i was thinking in my head, what kind of dealer matches a labour rate. None that i know of. Unless you really pointed it out that you wanted them to match the $80 labour rate i think you have no case.

mmmk · 02-19-2009, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VR6GTI

that sucks, when i was reading your post i was thinking in my head, what kind of dealer matches a labour rate. None that i know of. Unless you really pointed it out that you wanted them to match the $80 labour rate i think you have no case.

yeahh im surprised ur stealership would even offer to match that labour rate...not even import or domestic dealerships do that

LemonH2O · 02-19-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bender Unit

^ I don't think he sign anything yet ? but oral contract or verbal contract instead

I will go ask back the $50 Gift Card & never go back to MCL again

My Brain need a rest after reading OP post...

Well, legally, especially at a legit dealership, they can't work on the car until he signs the "work order" (may be other names). Without a signature, there's technically no legal authorization from OP to have them even touch his car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VR6GTI

that sucks, when i was reading your post i was thinking in my head, what kind of dealer matches a labour rate. None that i know of. Unless you really pointed it out that you wanted them to match the $80 labour rate i think you have no case.

+1!
Great point, I forgot to mention that. I've never heard of a negotiated rate by a dealership either. That's just fishy and out of any basic dealership policy. The only time legit dealerships change their hourly rate is with ICBC or suppliers, etc. No one can just walk in and negotiate with a service advisor, or even a service manager for a lower rate.

JL9000 · 02-19-2009, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrincessPeiPei

When a service advisor quotes you for a job, you agree and sign the work order, which is basically a contract. They could and did charge you the 13 hours because that's what you signed for. That's why before you sign for any work, always be prepared to pay what you are signing for regardless of the hours they actually spend on your car.

Most jobs (clutch, brakes etc.) have a set paid rate for the technician. For example, new brake pads and machining rotors pay the technician 1.7 hrs regardless of how long it actually takes them. That's how they make the most money, doing set paid jobs quicker so they make time and move on to the next car.

As far as my knowledge goes (not familiar with porshe though) replacing clutch pays a set time, for Hondas, Toyotas anyway. So say an experienced tech replaces it in 8 hours, but the dealership's set rate is 13 hours, you pay the 13, again because you were quoted and signed the 13. There's no way to argue around that even if you've been sitting at home watching the clock tick away.

Rich Sandor · 02-19-2009, 02:47 PM

Give Ray and MCL a chance to recover before you complain. Talk to them and explain that you understood that the work would done for the same or less money that MB Euro was offering, and you were not expecting to pay that much more, or for it to take that long. Use those EXACT words, and see what happens. If they are able to come to a reasonable resolution, then awesome. If not, call Porsche CANADA, and they will start the complaint resolution process, although since it's not a warranty problem, it might not get much priority.

If not, take you business to MB Euro and don't look back. I spent 24 hours with them in the pits at the Daytona 24 hours, and Mitch, Bernie, and the rest of the guys are every bit as capable of doing anything that any of the MCL guys could to. The only guy at MCL who has significantly more experience is John B, and you won't even know if he was the one working on your 997tt.

racerman88 · 02-19-2009, 04:32 PM

you are screwed unless it is on the contract that you signed.

sulos · 02-20-2009, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Sandor

Give Ray and MCL a chance to recover before you complain. Talk to them and explain that you understood that the work would done for the same or less money that MB Euro was offering, and you were not expecting to pay that much more, or for it to take that long. Use those EXACT words, and see what happens. If they are able to come to a reasonable resolution, then awesome. If not, call Porsche CANADA, and they will start the complaint resolution process, although since it's not a warranty problem, it might not get much priority.

If not, take you business to MB Euro and don't look back. I spent 24 hours with them in the pits at the Daytona 24 hours, and Mitch, Bernie, and the rest of the guys are every bit as capable of doing anything that any of the MCL guys could to. The only guy at MCL who has significantly more experience is John B, and you won't even know if he was the one working on your 997tt.

My Dad has been working there for 25 years.... and there are a couple of guys that have been there for a long time too. I would say they have pretty good experience.

Ray is a good guy, somehow I don't think we are getting the full story here.

ericthehalfbee · 02-20-2009, 12:32 PM

You drive a 997 Turbo and you're shopping around for the cheapest rates you can get?

hahha hahahah haa aha ahaahaha hahahahahaahaha

We have people come to the shop all the time saying things like "so and so can do it for xxx money". We always tell them "Well, then you should get them to do it since they're so much cheaper than us. Have a good day."

Marco911 · 02-20-2009, 10:18 PM

The dealer has a standard rate per hour and that is usually calculated by the finance guys so you can't negotiate much on that. The labor hrs are written in a book depending on the type of work that needs to be done. If the work std. is 13 hrs, they'll charge you 13 hrs whether it takes them 10 hrs or 15 hrs.

997turbo · 02-21-2009, 05:38 AM

There crooks over there period. I know when Im being scammed and if you look on 6speedonline there are alot of people who agree with me on MCL Porsche is a POS rip off. And to think I bought the man a $50 gift card to the Keg.

eric STFU your a loser no one want your opinion, I dont even know where to start with what you just said its so stupid.

They got experience but not with mods John was stumped with my aftermarket bushings, not so at SCAN they knew exactly what i had in my hands and had previously put them on a Turbo. They really are crooks and I understand there overhead and ect ect but I know Ray told me he match it. So if he misunderstood me then its there fault, and on top of that I wasnt even shown a work order and I wanted to pay ahead since we agreed upon it already but Ray dodged me on that one too. Just hope I dont catch Ray in public.

Rich Sandor · 02-21-2009, 11:25 AM

I wouldn't call MCL a "ripoff" per se. They DO charge more than anyone else, but then that is to be expected since the only local official dealer. If you go to a premium store you will pay a premium price.

If you don't care about who does the service as long as it's done right at a competitive price, then definately go with SCAN or MB Euro or even Weissach since you are unhappy with MCL and they haven't done anything to rectify your complaint.

I'll tell you I've heard complaints about every shop in Vancouver, and I know all the owners/managers at each Porsche store in Vancouver. They are not "scammers" or "ripoff artists" they are running a business and they need to make money; but unfortunately sometimes there are miscommunications, or misunderstandings, and it's the service manager's responsibility to be 100% crystal clear to the customer, and if they aren't, it's on them to rectify the problem afterwards, if they want to keep that customer's business.

But keep this in mind: If the customer doesn't complain, the manager won't know the customer is unhappy.

MegaMx · 02-21-2009, 11:31 AM

nvm

mmmmmic · 02-21-2009, 12:36 PM

Yes, nowaday shops work with the Flat Rate, which means labour hours are charged by the reference of estimating database. The database contains different make and model with the number of labour require to finish the job. For experienced technician, it is possible to finish the repair within the estimated hour, therefore apprentice technician usually does not work with flat rate, since it may take longer than the estimated time.
The estimated labour time is based on only one technician working on the repair, so if more than one technician works on the same repair, the process can be speed up.

Work order/repair order is required being signed by the customer before sending over to the technicians, before the signature is signed, it is not authorized to do any work to customer's vehicle. Repair order also contains a quote or estimate for the customer,
the signature of the customer shows that both party agrees on the repair and charged labour hour.

LowTEC · 02-21-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericthehalfbee

You drive a 997 Turbo and you're shopping around for the cheapest rates you can get?

hahha hahahah haa aha ahaahaha hahahahahaahaha

We have people come to the shop all the time saying things like "so and so can do it for xxx money". We always tell them "Well, then you should get them to do it since they're so much cheaper than us. Have a good day."

Agreed

Rich Sandor · 02-21-2009, 03:47 PM

^ Do you think he came to afford a 997turbo by not being careful with his money???

ericthehalfbee · 02-21-2009, 04:21 PM

His usual responses to someone calling him out are "What kind of car do you drive" or "What does your GF look like".

As if those are the only important yardsticks to measure someone by. He sounds like a spoiled 15 year old brat who has had everything handed to him. Of course, he might have worked his ass off to get his car, but all we have to go by is what he posts here on RS, and his posts don't paint a nice picture.

Why post on an internet forum where the average person drives a Civic about the problems you're having with your 997 Turbo? In fact, why post at all before you've talked to the dealer and tried to work things out? Calling out MCL on a public forum (and calling them scam artists) is childish at best, and won't do anything to help your cause in trying to settle the dispute with MCL.

A mature, sensible person would sit down and have a conversation with MCL about what happened and try to resolve things.

An immature brat goes online and bitches to anyone who will listen.

Rich Sandor · 02-21-2009, 04:36 PM

^ theres some truth to that!!

Anjew · 02-21-2009, 05:36 PM

while that does sound like the right thing to do, this is a forum after all. Dont tell me you dont talk about problems with your friends? you talk about whatever is bothering you with your "auto peers" and in turn you get feedback. i'm sure 997turbo has learned alot from all the replys even if the average person on this forum drives a civic.

trollguy · 02-21-2009, 07:43 PM

he's posted on 6speed too, not just RS.

Ray is a very good guy.

Marco911 · 02-22-2009, 03:43 AM

MCL is a rip-off. It comes with the territory when you're the only authorized Porsche dealer in the Lower Mainland.

MCL gave me the run around about my car being a U.S. car although I explained to the service manager that I bought a certified car from the U.S. because of the better selection and there wasn't any advantage in FX rates at the time I purchased my vehicle. The following time I serviced my vehicle, MCL charged $1K for the annual service (oil change) + brake flush. I figured they no longer want my business, so I now drive down to Seattle with a SO, stay at the W and service my car at Barrier Porsche. My last service and hotel bill was less than MCL would have charged. Plus I had a great weekend. So life is good.