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02-27-2009, 02:55 PM
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#1 | | Wunder? Wonder?? Wander???
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| MR2 Snap oversteer problem
So, I've been considering an mr2 for some time now as a summer car. I am considering a turbo version.
I have read lots of information on the net, including on mr2oc, about the snap oversteer.
I know about the differences in 93+ editions, but those are rare and expensive.
I'd just like to hear some experiences and opinions on the topic and how I should prepare for these situations (driving school)?
It will strictly be a summer (sunny day) car, perhaps to the track a few times. I will have my 6th gen celica for those nasty days. My assumptions are that if I keep the rubber up to par and drive sanely, I should be okay.
Thanks for your input.
PS. I have never driven a RWD car before, let alone a MR car.
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02-27-2009, 03:12 PM
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#2 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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| Quote: |
To respond to the feedback they had received, Toyota changed the 1993 model to include wider rear tires and changed the rear suspension, so that the car would be less prone to "snap oversteer".
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_MR2
MR2's are sweet. Hope to grab one myself one day.
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02-27-2009, 03:14 PM
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#3 | | Wunder? Wonder?? Wander???
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Thanks for the quick reply.
I have read a lot of the available information online.
Just looking for some additional personal experiences/opinions to add to my research.
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02-27-2009, 03:17 PM
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#4 | | G'd up! w000weee
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I wouldn't worry too much about oversteer if you're just planning to drive the car on sunny days. You should be fine.
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02-27-2009, 03:19 PM
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#5 | | Wunder? Wonder?? Wander???
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It is more common in MR's 'n they drive different to RWD's too. Common thing that causes it is people lifting off the throttle in the corners which makes the tail light.
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02-27-2009, 03:35 PM
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#6 | | Wunder? Wonder?? Wander???
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Ya I know about the counter intuitive throttle around corners. Chances are I'll be a big grandma driver around corners.
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02-27-2009, 03:43 PM
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#7 | | The RS Freebie guru
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If you're going to be a grandma around corners on sunny days, it's probably not going to be a problem. I've driven an RX8 never broke the rear wheels loose at any point, but managed to do it with an MR2 Spyder pretty easily on wet pavement under moderate throttle...
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02-27-2009, 03:52 PM
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#8 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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I was just reading about this the other day... it doesn't really exist  http://www.jekylhyderacing.com/snapoversteer.htm
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02-27-2009, 04:04 PM
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#9 | | RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001
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Originally Posted by SuperSlowSS  | I don't know about that. It DOES exist, he's merely arguing that it's all driver error/inexperience, which it is. However, that doesn't mean that the term doesn't exist. The term is applied when certain conditions are met while driving the car.
It clearly exists. It clearly is driver error and inexperience.
Happens more often on MR than RWD but I can make it happen anytime on Miata if I wanted to. There are plenty of videos out there that show driver error resulting in snap throttle oversteer. It's an inherent characteristic of RWD...although it can happen in FWD as well.
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02-27-2009, 04:08 PM
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#10 | | Wunder? Wonder?? Wander???
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Good read.
I completely agree with it.
I guess I can get one, grandma drive for a bit and try autox to learn to drive it properly.
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02-27-2009, 04:12 PM
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#11 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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Originally Posted by Alphamale I don't know about that. It DOES exist, he's merely arguing that it's all driver error/inexperience, which it is. However, that doesn't mean that the term doesn't exist. The term is applied when certain conditions are met while driving the car.
It clearly exists. It clearly is driver error and inexperience.
Happens more often on MR than RWD but I can make it happen anytime on Miata if I wanted to. There are plenty of videos out there that show driver error resulting in snap throttle oversteer. It's an inherent characteristic of RWD...although it can happen in FWD as well. | is there something called snap oversteer? yes.
is that a "problem"? don't think so
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02-27-2009, 05:04 PM
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#12 | | RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001
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Originally Posted by SuperSlowSS is there something called snap oversteer? yes.
is that a "problem"? don't think so | Yes, it is a problem. A problem that can be mitigated.
Don't believe?
91-92 MR2's vs 93+ MR2's, and we're just talking about streetablility here. Not that I have any personal experience, it is a consensus amongst the MR2 community.
Not to mention, there are aftermarket solutions as well.
It all depends on the scope of how you'll be driving your car.
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02-27-2009, 05:07 PM
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#13 | | OMGWTFBBQ is a common word I say everyday
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I wouldn't worry about it. as long as you're giving it a consistent amount of power through a corner, IE, don't let off too suddenly or accelerate, then you should be fine
i thought when i bought my first RWD car i'd be going sideways all day long, not quite true. haha
there are times when i give it a little bit of throttle and i go sideways accidently but that only ever happens in the dry.
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02-27-2009, 05:09 PM
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#14 | | RS.net, where our google ads make absolutely no sense!
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I have a 91 MR2.
When I first bought the car, the rear tires only had ~30% tread. Dry was okay; you would have to do something really outrageous to get the rear to slide out.
However in the wet, the tail can slide out quite easily. A little too much throttle across white lines in the intersection and you'll be countersteering. I remember one time driving with my girlfriend, and I had to countersteer a bit after I went into a corner a little too fast in the rain...she wasn't too happy to say the least. Having said that, I've never come close to doing a full 180....I think I was too chicken to take corners too fast.
After I changed my rear tires, it was a huge difference. I really have to be messing with the throttle mid corner for the tail to come out at all.
Anyways, don't mean to scare you or anything. The MR2 is a great car - fun to drive, looks good, reliable. I've owned it for almost 3 years now and still look forward to driving it daily.
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02-27-2009, 05:20 PM
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#15 | | "They call me Bowser...RawR!"
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I've experienced it in mine when I didn't know how to drive it. Never let go of the throttle around a corner... do not shift around a corner and do not brake around a corner. If the rear end breaks loose around a corner, give it throttle and steer with the wheel. Basically, don't do anything to upset the balance of the car when you're turning. Once you get used to driving it, you'll be fine.
The 91-92's are more prone to snap oversteer, it's setup more to be a race car. When people started wrecking their cars, they blamed a design flaw and Toyota dumbed down the suspension in the 93+ models.
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02-27-2009, 05:33 PM
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#16 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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Originally Posted by Alphamale Yes, it is a problem. A problem that can be mitigated.
Don't believe?
91-92 MR2's vs 93+ MR2's, and we're just talking about streetablility here. Not that I have any personal experience, it is a consensus amongst the MR2 community.
Not to mention, there are aftermarket solutions as well.
It all depends on the scope of how you'll be driving your car. | why is it a problem? so same kind of "problem" s2k had, which honda fixed?
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02-27-2009, 05:34 PM
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#17 | | I Will not Admit my Addiction to RS
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I had a chance to drive a mild modified 91 mr2 on mission raceway. I believe it it supercharged. in the sun, I don't really see any problem with snap oversteer.
If you are a beginner for mr or fr vehicle and if you do not have that much experience on track. You will not be pushing too hard anyways. To snap oversteer you will need to be pushing smoothly 9/10 on track or you can snap oversteer with 5/10 on track with poor driving ( not being smooth ).
The only thing I think there would be problems is when it rains. On a MR vehicle equipped with summer, bald, or semi track tires, it will be very difficult driving it in the rain. Even if your driving slowly. I pretty much spin my car in 1st and 2nd gear going straight or turning when I don't have my traction control on. The key is get a tire that works with rain.
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02-27-2009, 06:29 PM
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#18 | | I subscribe to the Fight Club ONLY
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Originally Posted by InvisibleSoul I've driven an RX8 never broke the rear wheels loose at any point | with 159 ft/lbs of torque its not surprising  | |
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02-27-2009, 07:03 PM
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#19 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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Originally Posted by Volvo-brickster with 159 ft/lbs of torque at 900000000000rpm its not surprising | Ownage 
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02-27-2009, 10:55 PM
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#20 | | RS Veteran
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*hahaha*
After reading this thread, I'm laughing in disgust.
To the OP - the bottomline is - don't drive like a you own the streets and you'll be fine. This whole "snap oversteer" stigma is far too hyped caused by MR2 owner kingshit syndrome. It's an inherant issue with 91/92 MR2s but really, you'd really have to do something really stupid to experience "snap oversteer."
No. Toyota never fixed this problem. They just made some changes to the suspension setup in 93+ but it still exists. Toyota did a piss-ass job in designing the suspension geometry - it sucks dick which is why MR2 owners should shut the hell up and stop thinking their cars were designed by God.
There was a JDM company called Phoenix power who designed rear traction/control arms for the MR2s and it "fixed" this snap oversteer issue. Basically, you have a suspension piece designed like a triangle and any 3rd grader knows better that a triangle is strong. Toyota engineers overlooked this and to this day, never "fixed" the problem. They just did a good job of masking it. The only other person I know of on this planet who ever designed this simple suspension piece was Alex Pfiefer of Battle Version but too bad his attitude sucked, otherwise, he would've been a millionaire by now but MR2 owners are cheap fucks who think their cars are God's gift to the automotive world.
My recommendation to the OP - buy a better car.
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02-28-2009, 01:56 AM
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#21 | | RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001
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Originally Posted by SuperSlowSS why is it a problem? so same kind of "problem" s2k had, which honda fixed? | I did say it depends on the scope of how you'll be driving your car.
For the average joe, this can present itself as a problem.
For someone who's more experienced, this may not present itself as a problem.
/thread?
Individual drivers all find little tweaks and setups that best fit their driving characteristics on the track (bounded by general knowledge, of course).
I think it is a problem. You may not, and that's fine. But I think we can all agree that it is a problem for the "average joe" who doesn't know dickall about anything and just buys the car because it's cool (which is fine, really).
Does that sound like a happy medium?
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Originally Posted by Jason00S2000 Invisible sky daddies commanding people to do shit is just so beyond retarded, I feel like punching myself in the balls until I shit my computer chair. | Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopstick 4 years ago, I pulled up to burger king, and asked to get a teen burger. I realized after the 3rd time i said it, I was in the wrong fucking place.
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Originally Posted by Sky_High [19-10, 22:51] how many post do I need before I can fail TOS'D posts. | | |
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02-28-2009, 08:32 AM
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#22 | | racing & tech mod.
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To add to what most everyone else said, it's not a problem if you're driving casually.
It'll only ever bite you if you're going too fast on a wet day and you don't have the experience to catch it before you leave the road.
Do lots of autoX in the wet, get used to going to sideways, and you'll fall in love with the car.
I'd be willing to venture a guess that if you "lost it" in an MR2, you probably would have lost it in any other RWD car too.
Last edited by Rich Sandor; 02-28-2009 at 08:37 AM.
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02-28-2009, 08:51 AM
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#23 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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Originally Posted by Alphamale I did say it depends on the scope of how you'll be driving your car.
For the average joe, this can present itself as a problem.
For someone who's more experienced, this may not present itself as a problem.
/thread?
Individual drivers all find little tweaks and setups that best fit their driving characteristics on the track (bounded by general knowledge, of course).
I think it is a problem. You may not, and that's fine. But I think we can all agree that it is a problem for the "average joe" who doesn't know dickall about anything and just buys the car because it's cool (which is fine, really).
Does that sound like a happy medium? | so it is more or less a driver problem... and can be fixed by doing autox or taking driving lessons.
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02-28-2009, 08:58 AM
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#24 | | RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001
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Originally Posted by Rich Sandor I'd be willing to venture a guess that if you "lost it" in an MR2, you probably would have lost it in any other RWD car too. | Ah no you've seen how they autoX right? They have the error tolerance of laser eye surgery. 
I mean stock for stock MR2s are more of a death trap than many RWD cars. Anyway moving on do you know why that automobile from god is such a bad car to drive hard on? It's because it's a Camry with front and rear suspension swapped around.
If the Camry is the most boring car to drive it's the same reason why MR2s are the most difficult cars to drive - try driving the Camry backwards through traffic at 60mph you'll get similar effects. ROFL.
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02-28-2009, 09:07 AM
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#25 | | I STILL don't get it
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Snap oversteer as mentioned is not a problem. It's driver inexperience. Understanding available traction is key.
If you can't figure out this link and the "traction circle" you should drive NA fwd for the rest of you life or until you do so.
A tire has %100 grip. Every tire does. If you use %92 of of that grip in neutral throttle cornering then apply power and the power uses %19 of the forward grip, it has to steal %11 grip from lateral traction. It's called power oversteer and you can see it in action every day on Top Gear car reviews .
So let's look at this "snap oversteer". You are cornering at say %94 of available traction for lateral cornering with a bit of power applied using %5 forward traction for power. you are usung %99 of traction available. Tire should be making noises here. Remember, you can't exceed %100 (ever!) so if you suddenly lift throttle and go into a decel mode where you are using %24 traction, you have to steal %18 of traction from lateral and you oversteer.
A 275/30 ZR19 or a 165/75 H14 from Canadian tire.... they all have %100 traction. You can never get away from that.  http://www.teamassociated.com/racerh...andling.2.html
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