Accident with driver without license

[124Y]

Originally Posted by Eff-1

It depends on if they choose to cover him or not. If they do, then you'll have to pay for his damage as well. If they don't, then you won't have to. In either case, the most that you'll have to pay is the cost of your collision deductible (or you pay ICBC back for 100% of the repairs).

I thought anyone would breach their contract with ICBC if they drive without having a license, and therefore, ICBC will not cover them? If so, then I will not have to cover his repairs correct?

Originally Posted by Eff-1

It depends on the circumstances of the accident. Without knowing more details, it's impossible to answer this question.

I would disagree with people who believe that just because he doesn't have a license, it will automatically be 100% his fault, and you are off the hook for any expenses.

I agree with you that not having a license shouldn't make him 100% at fault. However, I simply think he may not have sufficient experience nor knowledge to be on the road and it may be easier for him to CAUSE accidents.

[Soundy]

You both do realize, if he gets in an accident where there's any kind of injury, and he's not licensed, he'll be fully liable and could be sued for everything that he has (and probably ever will have)? He won't be able to insure a car without a valid license, so if he's driving on someone else's insurance, that insurance would be considered void, and the car's owner would also be held liable for damages and injuries.

I hope you're not letting him drive YOUR car...

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by 124Y

I thought anyone would breach their contract with ICBC if they drive without having a license, and therefore, ICBC will not cover them? If so, then I will not have to cover his repairs correct?

Whether you cover his repairs or not is entirely between you two, but ICBC most certainly won't cover him.

I agree with you that not having a license shouldn't make him 100% at fault.

It doesn't technically make him at fault, but as I said, ICBC *may* (not automatically, but at their discretion) decide to assign the blame that way for the purpose of paying out the insurance.

Either way, his insurance is void and wouldn't cover your damages, so your insurance would have to pay for that... the only question is whether it affects YOUR claim-rated discount. IF they assign partial or full blame to you, then you'd lose all or part of your discount (or get a surcharge); IF they were to decide he's 100% at fault (based on the premise that he shouldn't have been there in the first place), then the claim wouldn't affect YOUR insurance; they'd probably pay it out, and then go after him to recoup.

However, I simply think he may not have sufficient experience nor knowledge to be on the road and it may be easier for him to CAUSE accidents.

Wow, for such a good friend that you're willing to go to such lengths for, doesn't sound like you really know him very well.

[124Y]

Originally Posted by zulutango

Ask yourself, would you do to him, what he is doing to you? Do you really think he was completely unaware that what he was doing, was wrong. With friends like him, you don't need enemies.

I would say this accident was partially my fault and partially his. I know for a fact that driving without a driver's license is wrong, not to mention not having the skills and experience to judge and make decisions when driving. It's not like my friend is an experienced driver without a BCDL...if that's the case at least he wouldn't be as hazardous to other drivers as a driver without a BCDL AND is an inexperienced driver. I would say not having a BCDL is not the cause of his fault in this accident, but it's the lack of common road sense to a level not suitable to drive on public roads from not passing ICBC's knowledge or road test.

[124Y]

Originally Posted by Soundy

You both do realize, if he gets in an accident where there's any kind of injury, and he's not licensed, he'll be fully liable and could be sued for everything that he has (and probably ever will have)? He won't be able to insure a car without a valid license, so if he's driving on someone else's insurance, that insurance would be considered void, and the car's owner would also be held liable for damages and injuries.

Well, I know how serious, but I don't know if he knows. Seriously, there has been numerous times where I tell him "don't do this man, you'll get in seriously shit if anything happens" and he tells me nah it's ok it wont happen. Now, since I am partially responsible for this accident, I don't know if I am the right person to tell him that. I will find someway to let him know...perhaps through a friend..

Originally Posted by Soundy

I hope you're not letting him drive YOUR car...

NO-ONE DRIVES MY CAR!!!!

[Care]

.

[124Y]

Originally Posted by Soundy

Whether you cover his repairs or not is entirely between you two, but ICBC most certainly won't cover him.

Yeah, that is exactly what I want to know. I am making sure that ICBC will not cover him so he doesn't confront me and tells me ICBC will still cover him so I will have to pay his part even if we settle privately.

Originally Posted by Soundy

It doesn't technically make him at fault, but as I said, ICBC *may* (not automatically, but at their discretion) decide to assign the blame that way for the purpose of paying out the insurance.

Well, since my friend and I decide to settle this privately, I will tell him to own up if ICBC determines he's at fault due to:
1. He is partially at fault for the accident itself and it doesn't matter whether he has a BCDL or not.
2. He is partially at fault for poor judgement due to the fact that he doesn't have a BCDL (being inexperienced)

If ICBC determines he's at fault simply by not having a BCDL, literally, and not involving whether or not he is at fault for the accident itself, I will be willing to own up and not take advantage of the fact that I am lucky simply because he doesn't have a valid BCDL. After all, I don't want to take advantage of a friend.

Originally Posted by Soundy

Wow, for such a good friend that you're willing to go to such lengths for, doesn't sound like you really know him very well.

Well, he is one of those guys who are "new" to the car scene. Being over-confident, possibly going to rice out his car with stickers, etc. He drivers fine normally, but lacks some common sense, in general.

[124Y]

Originally Posted by Care

If the accident had been my fault however, I would have had to pay for my damages only, which is what the adjustor told me when they were looking at my car.

Oh I see. Well my accident is kind of different from yours.

Here is an analogy:

Imagine you were pretty busy with reports all over your desk. Your friend puts his glass of water beside your hand while you were busy writing and you accidentally knock over the glass of water. Technically, you are liable to be at fault since your arm movement knocked over the glass of water. Yes...I know what you are thinking...why would someone put their glass of water beside your arm when they clearly see that you are busy with reports and they could've put it further up the table where it's safer...I don't know

[tough]

its his fault for not having a license but i dont think you would call on one of your friends unless your a dirtbag

[124Y]

Originally Posted by tough

its his fault for not having a license but i dont think you would call on one of your friends unless your a dirtbag

Well, my original intention was not to rat him out, but to talk to him about the seriousness of this matter. However, it will be his choice to continue driving like this if he wants (hopefully not though).

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by 124Y

Well, my original intention was not to rat him out, but to talk to him about the seriousness of this matter. However, it will be his choice to continue driving like this if he wants (hopefully not though).

And if he does, it's your responsibility to 'rat him out' - he's a hazard to himself, and worse to everyone else on the road.

[124Y]

Originally Posted by Soundy

And if he does, it's your responsibility to 'rat him out' - he's a hazard to himself, and worse to everyone else on the road.

Well...morally, I don't think it's right to do so...
I will try and figure out a way without jeopardizing our friendship to let him know how serious this matter is... I hope he doesn't think that I'm only telling him because I want to push my responsibility to him...

[zulutango]

Let me get this straight in my mind...it's NOT morally right to turn in someone who is committing illegal acts that will likely put you in legal jeopardy...but it IS morally right to become an accessory to his illegal actions and permit him to continue to break the law and endanger you and others...because he is a "nice guy" who is new to the car scene...and happens to be your friend? You must exist in a world that is different than mine and most others here. And we wonder why the world is in the condition it is today ? Your "morals" are a microcosm for the "it's not my fault or responsibility" world of today. Morals are OK, except when ignoring them suits or benifits us personally. I'm sorry you have decided to live this way. Character and morality are doing the right thing even when nobody saw what happened. In your case, it was in public, the tree fell in the forest and others heard the noise.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by 124Y

Well...morally, I don't think it's right to do so...

So... you know he's not licensed, you know he's still driving, you know his skills and experience are lacking, and you can deduce that he could be a danger to others on the road...

And now, because everyone has told you so, you know that he can be liable for lawsuits and criminal charges should he have an accident causing someone else injury.

How is it morally right to NOT do what you can to get this person off the road?

If he hit me and broke my legs or something, I wouldn't just be going after him in court, I'd probably be coming after you too, because you didn't do everything possible to get him off the road when you KNEW he shouldn't be driving.

It is morally right for HIM to put YOU in that position?

I will try and figure out a way without jeopardizing our friendship to let him know how serious this matter is... I hope he doesn't think that I'm only telling him because I want to push my responsibility to him...

If this idiot's friendship is all that important to you, then report him anonymously. He doesn't need to know it was you that sold him out - then you can look like the hero when you bail him out and let him cry on your shoulder about all the shit he's in.

[124Y]

Originally Posted by zulutango

Let me get this straight in my mind...it's NOT morally right to turn in someone who is committing illegal acts that will likely put you in legal jeopardy...but it IS morally right to become an accessory to his illegal actions and permit him to continue to break the law and endanger you and others...because he is a "nice guy" who is new to the car scene...and happens to be your friend?

Wrong.

Based on my morals, it is wrong to sell out a good friend. I am sure you wouldn't sell out a good friend as well. I have never said it is not against my morals to turn in someone who is committing illegal acts. I simply want to settle this incident without jeopardizing our friendship. I will talk to him ASAP regarding this matter and if he doesn't care and continues to drive, then I will take it to ICBC. I feel it is more reasonable if I talk to him about it first. Remember I said he lacks common sense...he probably doesn't know how severe this matter is.

[124Y]

Originally Posted by Soundy

So... you know he's not licensed, you know he's still driving, you know his skills and experience are lacking, and you can deduce that he could be a danger to others on the road...

And now, because everyone has told you so, you know that he can be liable for lawsuits and criminal charges should he have an accident causing someone else injury.

How is it morally right to NOT do what you can to get this person off the road?

If he hit me and broke my legs or something, I wouldn't just be going after him in court, I'd probably be coming after you too, because you didn't do everything possible to get him off the road when you KNEW he shouldn't be driving.

It is morally right for HIM to put YOU in that position?



If this idiot's friendship is all that important to you, then report him anonymously. He doesn't need to know it was you that sold him out - then you can look like the hero when you bail him out and let him cry on your shoulder about all the shit he's in.

I was thinking of PERSUADING him to not drive before getting a valid BCDL and talk some sense into him. After all, I'm sure you would hesitate before turning a good friend in. As long as he stays off the road for his and other's good and know about the consequences of driving without a license, I won't do anything yet. However though, if he still continues to drive, I will consider reporting him in.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by 124Y

Wrong.

Based on my morals, it is wrong to sell out a good friend.

And if a good friend got completely wasted and insisted on driving anyway despite your protestations, would you report him, or let him drive off and kill himself and/or others?

I am sure you wouldn't sell out a good friend as well. I have never said it is not against my morals to turn in someone who is committing illegal acts. I simply want to settle this incident without jeopardizing our friendship. I will talk to him ASAP regarding this matter and if he doesn't care and continues to drive, then I will take it to ICBC. I feel it is more reasonable if I talk to him about it first. Remember I said he lacks common sense...he probably doesn't know how severe this matter is.

Sounds like you hold a really high opinion of this "friend".

Let me paint you a little picture, as I know lots of people who "lack common sense" like this:

You'll go to him and say, hey, do you realize what a big deal it is that you're driving without a valid license? Then you'll lay out a lot of the stuff that we've told you here.

One of four things will happen from there:

1. He won't care, in which case you'll need to report him.

2. He won't believe that you have any idea what you're talking about, and you'll need to report him.

3. He won't believe that you have any idea what you're talking about, so you'll explain to him that you got the info directly from a cop (that would be zulutango, in this case); he'll think you sold him out and flip out, the friendship will be sliced, and you'll need to report him.

4. He'll believe every word you say, won't question how you know all this, and stop driving, like a good boy.

How likely is scenario #4, really? And given this "lack of common sense", how long if he DOES fall into catergory 4, will it be before he simply forgets it, or decides to just disregard it, so you end up needing to report him?

[124Y]

Originally Posted by Soundy

And if a good friend got completely wasted and insisted on driving anyway despite your protestations, would you report him, or let him drive off and kill himself and/or others?

That's the thing...I will do neither. I will simply prevent him from driving at all cost. For my scenario, however, I am just not sure if I hold a strong enough argument to tell him to get off the roads when he has probably been driving around without a license for a couple months now without having a problem. I am being honest here, that I know a lot of drivers who drive worse than him. I know it is illegal to drive without a driver's license, but it's hard to be anal to a friend especially he will think I am stating this to blame him for the accident.

Originally Posted by Soundy

Sounds like you hold a really high opinion of this "friend".

Let me paint you a little picture, as I know lots of people who "lack common sense" like this:

You'll go to him and say, hey, do you realize what a big deal it is that you're driving without a valid license? Then you'll lay out a lot of the stuff that we've told you here.

One of four things will happen from there:

1. He won't care, in which case you'll need to report him.

2. He won't believe that you have any idea what you're talking about, and you'll need to report him.

3. He won't believe that you have any idea what you're talking about, so you'll explain to him that you got the info directly from a cop (that would be zulutango, in this case); he'll think you sold him out and flip out, the friendship will be sliced, and you'll need to report him.

4. He'll believe every word you say, won't question how you know all this, and stop driving, like a good boy.

How likely is scenario #4, really? And given this "lack of common sense", how long if he DOES fall into catergory 4, will it be before he simply forgets it, or decides to just disregard it, so you end up needing to report him?

Yes I agree with you on this one. I just feel that I want to warn him beforehand before I do any reporting. If anything, I don't think I should be the one preaching him about this...I will probably let another friend tell him so he will not think I am pushing all the responsibilities to him. If he does not listen, then I guess that leaves me no choice...

[zulutango]

Look in websters for "enabling", then reach behind to see where your spine went. I'm
sorry you don't have the integrity to do the right thing....really. Your'e more worried about loosing the "friendship" of somebody who does not deserve your friendship. I hope you learn somewhere, that doing the right thing is tough, doing the wrong thing is easy.

[?NR]

I have the need to chime in on this.

Please do an ethics check.

While your loyalty to your friend is commendable, a true friend would not have put you through this ordeal. You may hold this friendship in high regards towards him, but would it be the same for him towards you?

dog eat dog world, and you will never know what the other thinks of you truly deep down and honestly. I wish I can use the old Chinese saying which has alot of truth behind it.

Do you admit he is wrong for driving without a valid license? If yes as a citizen AND a good friend why do you continue to encourage and help him with this errors?

if you reported him according to law, wouldn't that stop him from driving? Wouldn't that also decrease his risks and potential liabilities in the future, for himself, and others?

if YOU are indeed someone that cares about your friend and NOT JUST the "friendship", do what is best for him even at the cost of the "friendship".

Ratting on a friend is a bad thing if it's for bad intentions. But with good intentions it is not ratting a friend out, it is sacrificial in hopes of saving a friend from him/herself.

I've gained life long friendships, strengthened family ties because I chose what was best for them instead of worrying about how I'd look to others. They may despise you for a bit until they realize what you have done was all for them with all the best possible intentions.

please don't be superficial and skin deep.

too early for this old guy for this sort of thing. Time for tai chi chuan.

good luck.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by !NiteRaven

While your loyalty to your friend is commendable, a true friend would not have put you through this ordeal. You may hold this friendship in high regards towards him, but would it be the same for him towards you?

QFMFT!

Like I said further up the thread, "It is morally right for HIM to put YOU in that position?"

[E=mc²]

I think we're forgetting that it's easy as spectators, who have no emotional ties to the situation, to simply say "report your friend, it's the right thing."

I know for a FACT, that it would take a lot for me to rat a friend out like this. Whether it's morally right or wrong "in the eyes of the law", we humans have emotions and feelings. I don't think the OP is wrong for finding alternative methods to rectify this situation before resorting to turning his friend in. Just saying.

Now, given what has been posted, and the failed attempts to convince his friend, it might be the best thing to do. The OP needs to not simply ruin the friendship by reporting his friend. He should be smart about it and report it anonymously as someone said. I think that's the important thing. Or get a bunch of friends together to convince him that what he's doing is wrong. I mean that way everyone contributes to helping him out, and a group effort may be a better convincer than a solo effort.

[jlenko]

I think it's great that you're so bent on sticking up for your friend... let's just hope he's such a good friend that he doesn't end up screwing YOU in the end...

...because that's what usually happens. And don't expect us not to laugh in your face when it happens.