Wrong information.....in the unshaded area

[flameboy54]

So I got this ticket, 100% guilty, accepted the fact that I have to pay it and probably will. I did a search and came up with nothing (for those that are going to rag on me for not searching).

We understand that inaccurate information in shaded box doesn't mean much. But what is the likelihood of the ticket being thrown out because information is incorrect in the *non-shaded* area of the ticket? IE: wrong date, wrong or misspelled street, wrong MVA section vs offence. Is one detail more likely to influence the judge versus another if you were to dispute it? IE: incorrect street or street spelling vs wrong MVA act?

[Soundy]

Well if it's the wrong MVA section, I'd say you have a pretty easy case... you could have been doing a dozen illegal things, but if you weren't charged with any of them, they really don't matter when it comes to the court - only what's written on the ticket matters, and if you WEREN'T doing that, then you should be able to get it dismissed.

It comes down to this: the ticket is the cop formally saying, "I caught flameboy54 doing such-and-such, and breaking law XYZ." If you were breaking laws ABC and PDQ, but NOT law XYZ, then that charge is faulty.

And yes, you're entirely within your rights to dispute such a ticket, and in fact, you SHOULD. The police have to be accountable for their mistakes, just like anyone else... when they screw up, they have to take their lumps, just like anyone else. Disputing an incorrect charge helps to keep the whole system accountable and accurate and ensures that the police can't just go around passing out random tickets with nothing to back them up.

Wrong date is maybe a little tougher, but again, if it's important enough to NOT rate a shaded area of the ticket, it's important enough to insist on accuracy. If the cop is charging that you broke law XYZ on the 5th of March, but you were on the other side of the world that day, and can prove it, then by all means, dispute it. You may have actually broken that law on the 5th of May, but that's not what you're being charged with.

A wrong or misspelled street is trickier, depending on the wording...if the ticket states it was "in the area of" a certain street, that may be enough for it to stand on. If it's an obvious misspelling, the court may be willing to accept that (say, "Smith St." instead of "Smythe St.", when there is no "Smith St."), but if it puts you in an entirely different area than you were actually in (say, 3200 W. Broadway vs. 3200 E. Broadway), well, that may be a different story.

[HSK]

Sorry to bump an old thread but if the street address is wrong, how would you go about disputing this ticket? At the end of the day, wouldn't it be the officer's words against yours?

[Soundy]

Depends... how wrong is the address? Do you have something that could prove you were in another area at close to the same time?

Like the above example: if the ticket says 3200 E. Broadway and you were at 3200W. Broadway at the time, did you do any shopping anywhere in the W. Broadway area? A receipt from a nearby store within half an hour of the ticket time should be enough (good luck making it from 3200 E. Broadway to 3200 W. Broadway in that time).

[CRS]

Originally Posted by Soundy

Depends... how wrong is the address? Do you have something that could prove you were in another area at close to the same time?

Like the above example: if the ticket says 3200 E. Broadway and you were at 3200W. Broadway at the time, did you do any shopping anywhere in the W. Broadway area? A receipt from a nearby store within half an hour of the ticket time should be enough (good luck making it from 3200 E. Broadway to 3200 W. Broadway in that time).

In other words, unless you have proof otherwise, it is your words vs. the officers.

OR if the incident is something has a specific sign posting. Like no left/right turns or what have you and there isn't that sign at that location. So say you were cited for a no left turn at W broadway and cambie but there is no sign that says no left there but there is a sign on W broadway and oak. If you were on Oak but the ticket says cambie, you could simply go take pictures of the street signs and you'll be off the hook!

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by CRS

In other words, unless you have proof otherwise, it is your words vs. the officers.

True... but as skidmark has often noted, sometimes that's all it needs. A cop's word isn't automatically given more weight in court. If you come in fully prepared with details and facts and the cop has just vague descriptions of places and events, guess who's a lot more likely of walking away from that one?

OR if the incident is something has a specific sign posting. Like no left/right turns or what have you and there isn't that sign at that location. So say you were cited for a no left turn at W broadway and cambie but there is no sign that says no left there but there is a sign on W broadway and oak. If you were on Oak but the ticket says cambie, you could simply go take pictures of the street signs and you'll be off the hook!

Yep, lots of ways you can support your testimony!

[zulutango]

Originally Posted by HSK

Sorry to bump an old thread but if the street address is wrong, how would you go about disputing this ticket? At the end of the day, wouldn't it be the officer's words against yours?

It would depend on what is "wrong" with the address. Often an offence can be comitted on one street and the vehicle stopped on another street. It is up to the person writing the ticket as to what location is used.

A "defective" VT can be modified, in court, before the actual trial testimony is started. Crown make an application to change it, the JP hears the application, he will ask you if you object and why, and then it almost always goes ahead...unless there is some major problem with what is written. It's up to the JP to permit or reject the application. I have never seen one rejected.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by zulutango

It would depend on what is "wrong" with the address. Often an offence can be comitted on one street and the vehicle stopped on another street. It is up to the person writing the ticket as to what location is used.

A "defective" VT can be modified, in court, before the actual trial testimony is started. Crown make an application to change it, the JP hears the application, he will ask you if you object and why, and then it almost always goes ahead...unless there is some major problem with what is written. It's up to the JP to permit or reject the application. I have never seen one rejected.

Of course, that requires the Crown to notice and recognize the mistake first. Obviously you never give the cop a hint beforehand what your intended defense is.

[CRS]

Originally Posted by Soundy

Of course, that requires the Crown to notice and recognize the mistake first. Obviously you never give the cop a hint beforehand what your intended defense is.

This.

I remember there was a member who was disputing a ticket with a similar defense and when the court date finally showed up, the officer asked him why he was disputing it, he told him it was the wrong location or what have you and the cop just told the JP to cancel it and he was going to re-issue the correct one.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by CRS

This.

I remember there was a member who was disputing a ticket with a similar defense and when the court date finally showed up, the officer asked him why he was disputing it, he told him it was the wrong location or what have you and the cop just told the JP to cancel it and he was going to re-issue the correct one.

[zulutango]

Proper pre-trial prep procedures by the member should mean going over the VT to check for possible defects and to fully refresh your memory. It's also a time to run the driving history in the event of a conviction or a possible pre-trial guilty plea request. I haave found occasionally that I had made a minor mistake and that way I was ready to request permission to correct the required info before actually begining testimony. Once you start, if there is an actual defect in the VT, you are out of luck if it is raised by the defendant during cross examination. The location scenario I raised above has come up as an attempt but unless it is a very specific charge...like a stop sign and the VT was issued for a sign that did not exist there...eg corner of Smith & 2nd but the sign was actually a block away at Smith and 3rd...then that would be a defective VT.

One written for 10.30 am when your watch said 10.40 am, but the Cop's said 10.30 am, would not get tossed. I had that raised one at trial and I asked the JP for some leeway. Asked everyone in the courtroom with a watch to compare their time with the clock on the courtroom wall...everyone had a time different from the court clock...some as much as 10 minutes out. The JP's watch was 3 minutes "out'. I always used the time on the PC clock even if it differed from my wrist watch. That way all the times corresponded. I installed a digital clock on the motorcycle and did the same thing.

[zulutango]

"Of course, that requires the Crown to notice and recognize the mistake first. Obviously you never give the cop a hint beforehand what your intended defense is."

Two things to remember about this process...first there must actually be a "mistake" and secondly it must not be corrected before the trial actually begins.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by zulutango

"Of course, that requires the Crown to notice and recognize the mistake first. Obviously you never give the cop a hint beforehand what your intended defense is."

Two things to remember about this process...first there must actually be a "mistake"

Isn't that the whole point of the discussion?