REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

sebberry · 09-16-2009, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundy

While "multiple" does technically include "two", it is generally used to indicate three or more...

Well if you want to get that technical, how about units that allow for seperate ride height, preload and damping adjustment? Then there are the ones that have seperate compression and rebound adjustments making for four different adjustments

Soundy · 09-16-2009, 04:49 PM

The point is, "coilovers" are not automatically "adjustable", and thus not automatically illegal.

zulutango · 09-16-2009, 08:00 PM

I have also towed vehicles with more than 1 leaf spring removed...and ones that had been installed upside down to lower the vehicle. Nothing like bending a piece of metal in the exact opposite way to design specs.

sebberry · 09-19-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zulutango

I have also towed vehicles with more than 1 leaf spring removed...and ones that had been installed upside down to lower the vehicle. Nothing like bending a piece of metal in the exact opposite way to design specs.

Would you automatically tow a vehicle with aftermarket coilovers providing acceptable ground clearance is maintained? They are after all adjustable and the installation typically causes wheel alignment to be off a degree or two.

zulutango · 09-20-2009, 07:22 PM

Yes or no....depends on the theoretical vehicle you described. If the gound clearance was legal, that would be one concern...but if the alignment wa sout to a noticable degree, that wouldaffcet steeting and handling. We have all see the Ford Ranger pickups with the slumped front ends where the tyres are in at the top and out at the bottom. The wiggle and weave their way down the road scraping tyre rubber at they go. They get towed. If I could see tyre wear because of the bad alignment then it is a problem to be dealt with and it gets towed. On a wet day the driver could loose control in a corner. All depends just how bad it appeared to be.

yvrnycracer · 09-21-2009, 01:49 PM

where is the line drawn with camber adjustment in terms of alignment?

This is extreme... http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9617/6copychg.jpg

Soundy · 09-21-2009, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvrnycracer

where is the line drawn with camber adjustment in terms of alignment?

This is extreme... http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9617/6copychg.jpg

Forget illegal, that's just gone FULL retard. But I suppose if you're pimp enough to roll VIP, you're pimp enough to replace your tires every three weeks after you wear right through the sidewalls. At that point, you have AAA on speed-dial on your N95 anyway.

yvrnycracer · 09-21-2009, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundy

Forget illegal, that's just gone FULL retard. But I suppose if you're pimp enough to roll VIP, you're pimp enough to replace your tires every three weeks after you wear right through the sidewalls. At that point, you have AAA on speed-dial on your N95 anyway.

that car is ballin out of CONTROL!

But I woud still like to know what is illegal in terms of camber setups...

ilvtofu · 09-21-2009, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvrnycracer

where is the line drawn with camber adjustment in terms of alignment?

This is extreme... http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9617/6copychg.jpg

I wonder how that is VIP, I don't know any VIP that would dig the way that thing rides or likes stopping on the side of the road after the tire eats itself up...

zulutango · 09-22-2009, 05:38 AM

The alignment specs are in the inspection manual...I do not have a copy of one. As I said earlier, indications of tyre wear problems would be an indication to most that the car does not move.

Soundy · 09-22-2009, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilvtofu

I wonder how that is VIP, I don't know any VIP that would dig the way that thing rides or likes stopping on the side of the road after the tire eats itself up...

My Accord looked like that once... after I broke a ball joint.

Solo_D33A · 09-22-2009, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvrnycracer

where is the line drawn with camber adjustment in terms of alignment?

This is extreme... http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/9617/6copychg.jpg

Many people on air suspensions ride on normal or about the same as how a coilover.

People only lower their car on air when they're parked. normal driving they can go to normal height to save the tires... and some system have built in safety system that you can't lower your car when driving.

zulutango · 09-22-2009, 07:48 AM

The problem with lowering and raising the car is that you change the suspension adjustments every time you do so. There is no guarantee that the vehicle is safely aligned after it is moved even once. That is the problem and why factory systems ensure it alwsy is in alignment and why aftermarket ones have to guarantee that they will be too and are certified for on road use.

PACER · 09-22-2009, 09:07 AM

I do not have time to read all of these post as most are just back and forth banter that has been discussed in these forms previously.

From what I get by skimming thru is what would constitute adjustable and what is approved.

This is my two cents worth....

1. After market Hydrolics/air bags THAT are able to be adjusted from the passenger compartment are illegal, regardless of whether or not the components are approved for hiway use. (of note I have not found one manufacturer yet that has the approval of a car manufacturer or transport canada for on hiway use)

2. Adjustable suspensions that will allow a vehicle to bottom out (any component of the under body, suspension etc to touch the ground) are illegal. If a part fails and the car is able to touc ground would be a hazard hence illegal. (this usually requires a person to remove the factory bump stops). Any vehicle that has these removed or missing can be removed from a roadway.

3. Coil overs (adjustable) yes they can be adjusted for hieght but that can not be done from the passenger compartment unless you have realy long arms. So they are not automatically illegal. But see item 2.

4. air bag suspensions systems were designed to assit the fatory suspension for the purposes of towing or carrying loads. They are install along side and in tandem with factory parts not in place of..... Again not automatically illegal see item 1 and 2.

5. Lastly from personal and past experiences with aftermarket suspensions particularly coil overs (street kits are usually pretty good) designed for mostly or soley track use are very dangerous on public roads. They were not desinged to absorb the iregularities in a narmal public raod surface, they are and were intended for purpose built tracks that have far less severe iregularities. If a vehicle does not absorb the bumps the energy has to go some where, in refrence to a bump it goes either into your spine or causes teh car to become air born or loose... this can lead to severe crashes.

yvrnycracer · 09-23-2009, 04:26 PM

Quote:

4. air bag suspensions systems were designed to assit the fatory suspension for the purposes of towing or carrying loads. They are install along side and in tandem with factory parts not in place of..... Again not automatically illegal see item 1 and 2.

Not true... Air suspension that is installed by the factory is not there to aid towing in many cases... look at the audi allroad, the VW touareg, Mercedes S class, VW Phaeton are in place to increase and lower the ride height of the car. In the case of the Allroad and the Touareg I have seen both in shops with blown suspension. It clearly showed that the Airbag was there in Place of the coiled spring. In the case of the allroad the car was almost on the ground... In addition the travel of the car can be modified by using the diagnostic tools that correspond with the brand... (so it could be slammed should you so desire)

sebberry · 09-23-2009, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zulutango

Contract Transport Canada with a list of the ones you proposed using.

FYI: Transport Canada does not appear to have a list of approved coilover suspension systems. Here is their email response to their inquiry:

Quote:

Thank you for contacting Transport Canada, Road Safety through our web mail.

Regulations regarding modifications and installing equipment to an existing vehicle are the jurisdiction of the Province in Canada, under the Highway Traffic Safety Act. You will find links to all Canadian provinces on our web-site at the following address:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/aboutus/prov.htm

Thank you,

Information Centre/Centre d'information

Transport(s) Canada

Road Safety/Sécurité routière

1-800-333-0371 or (613) 998-8616

roadsafetywebmail@tc.gc.ca

Does this mean each and every province has their own set of regulations that each and every manufacturer of OEM and aftermarket equipment must adhere to and undergo testing for compliance?

yvrnycracer · 09-23-2009, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sebberry

FYI: Transport Canada does not appear to have a list of approved coilover suspension systems. Here is their email response to their inquiry:

Does this mean each and every province has their own set of regulations that each and every manufacturer of OEM and aftermarket equipment must adhere to and undergo testing for compliance?

by that notion... there is nothing in the MVA regs that specify that either...

Aside from not allowing adjustability from inside the vehicle...

sebberry · 09-23-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvrnycracer

by that notion... there is nothing in the MVA regs that specify that either...

Aside from not allowing adjustability from inside the vehicle...

I wonder what sort of adjustments are specifically outlawed? Height? Damping?

zulutango · 09-24-2009, 06:51 AM

All equipment must meet Transport Canada and Canada Safety Act standards. When it does, it then meets BC standards as BC uses them as the required standard. These standards go on for many pages and are very specific in their standards. In addition, you have to meet the MV act, Regs and the Provincial Inspection manual requirements. Want specifics, do an on line serach for TS and Canada Safety Act and take a look at the manual.

In short,...in very simplified terms.. the Federal standards kind of set up the level of quality and design required...the Provincial stuff assumes these quality and design requirements and then says how they must work on your vehicle.

yvrnycracer · 09-24-2009, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zulutango

All equipment must meet Transport Canada and Canada Safety Act standards. When it does, it then meets BC standards as BC uses them as the required standard. These standards go on for many pages and are very specific in their standards. In addition, you have to meet the MV act, Regs and the Provincial Inspection manual requirements. Want specifics, do an on line serach for TS and Canada Safety Act and take a look at the manual.

In short,...in very simplified terms.. the Federal standards kind of set up the level of quality and design required...the Provincial stuff assumes these quality and design requirements and then says how they must work on your vehicle.

I would love to see a copy of the inspection manual... unfortunately you have to pay 25 bucks to see it... http://www.vsis.qp.gov.bc.ca/default.htm

zulutango · 09-25-2009, 05:21 AM

If it is this important to you, as you have us believe, then why not try your local library...or even walking into an inspection station and asking if you could look at their copy. If there is something specific you want to se, eg the dergee of toe in on an alignment or the specifics of headlight aiming etc. then this would eb a good way to find out. The garage may be approachable if you might be comi ng gthere for the needede repairs. You might also try stopping at one of the lower traffic weigh scales and talking to a CVSE inspector.

sebberry · 09-25-2009, 09:10 PM

Just curious..

Alignment specs.. does the manual have manufacturer recommended specifications for each and every vehicle or is it simply a global spec that all vehicles alignments have to fall within?

zulutango · 09-26-2009, 06:43 AM

From what I remember from the manual it is a global specification. An alignment centre will have the specs for your own vehicle.

projectcivic · 09-26-2009, 01:47 PM

i have the manual in front of me right now, alignment must be within manufacturers toleances on the majority of things (toe,caster, camber), although for light vehicle it does stat things very specifically; for exmaple "turning angle can NOT exceed 5degrees left to right or manufacturers specs". So there is some things that the manual gives specific details on but the most part, keep everything within manuf. specs and you should be good.

PACER · 09-28-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvrnycracer

Not true... Air suspension that is installed by the factory is not there to aid towing in many cases... look at the audi allroad, the VW touareg, Mercedes S class, VW Phaeton are in place to increase and lower the ride height of the car. In the case of the Allroad and the Touareg I have seen both in shops with blown suspension. It clearly showed that the Airbag was there in Place of the coiled spring. In the case of the allroad the car was almost on the ground... In addition the travel of the car can be modified by using the diagnostic tools that correspond with the brand... (so it could be slammed should you so desire)

I specifically did not mention factory installed systems as they are a non issue in this discussion. I was refer purely to after market systems. So the item you quoted is still very true. And no it can not be slammed as they have predetermined hieght adjustments and can not go beyond that and the factory bump stops would keep it from going too far as to have a portion of the body hit the road or a wheel hit the inner fender.