DriveSmartBC - Setting Credible Speed Limits

[skidmark]

Without doubt, the laws that drivers fail to follow the most often must regard the speed limit. Everyone has a justification for doing so. They range from being in a hurry, which is selfish, to the limit is set too low which is either a reasonable observation or a result of failing to take all factors into consideration.

In the past, speeds were set according to engineering design standards. This was often varied by the 85th percentile rule. The logic behind this was that the limit was most likely to be followed if it was set at what the majority of drivers chose.

More recently, collision data was introduced to the equation. A higher incidence of collisions called for a reduction in the speed limit. This will likely be supplanted by tending toward speeds that will mean road users will survive and injury will be minimized if a collision does occur.

What does the future hold? Perhaps we will factor in the production of greenhouse gases. Fuel consumption rises rapidly with speed and this is directly related to what comes out of the tailpipe.

Obviously, setting a credible speed limit that drivers will accept and follow is a difficult task. However, if it is accomplished there will be a high degree of voluntary compliance and perhaps a safer driving environment.

Reference Links

[Solo_D33A]

Originally Posted by skidmark

More recently, collision data was introduced to the equation. A higher incidence of collisions called for a reduction in the speed limit. This will likely be supplanted by tending toward speeds that will mean road users will survive and injury will be minimized if a collision does occur.

What does the future hold?

Make everybody walk on foot, that'll solve the problem of greenhouse gases and survivability after a collision. But please tell me that they're not that stupid since the speed limit was set long ago and cars have came a long way in safety in both in car and pedestrian... Only problem is training of the driver itself. People don't drive properly.

[jlenko]

^ Agreed People don't drive properly.

I don't know when speed limits were last increased along Hwy 1... but I know multiple studies HAVE concluded that they are too low. All of my cars I've owned since my early 80's boat, well... they've all handled and stopped much better than that ol' POS..

[XtC-604]

More like the speed limits are set purposely low, for pigs to ticket people. I mean 50km/r city? Should be around 70

[Rich Sandor]

we should not need speed limits. a good driver knows what a safe speed is.

unfortunately only 1/2 of drivers on the road are above average...

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Rich Sandor

we should not need speed limits. a good driver knows what a safe speed is.

Thank you.

Although maximum speeds are posted everywhere, the onus is still on the driver to determine what speed up to that limit is safe.

This means that the government accepts that most drivers are able to determine what a safe speed of travel is.

[hchang]

Originally Posted by sebberry

Thank you.

Although maximum speeds are posted everywhere, the onus is still on the driver to determine what speed up to that limit is safe.

This means that the government accepts that most drivers are able to determine what a safe speed of travel is.

No if you are driving too slow you are disrupting the flow of traffic, which is also a ticket-able offense.

[stevo911_]

Who is it who actually decides on speed limits? The municipality or MOT?
Seems like some are pretty arbitrary (such as comparing the limits on the stretch between port alberni and ucluelet/tofino and the loop between sooke and cowichan).
The road to Tofino you are starting to get close to pushing the limits for some drivers if you follow all the speed limits and suggested max. corner speeds, which is completely different than the loop where you have much less challenging corners and they're tagged with a lower limit to boot!

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by hchang

No if you are driving too slow you are disrupting the flow of traffic, which is also a ticket-able offense.

Are you suggesting that in the pouring rain at night on a narrow road lined with cars on both sides that slowing down a bit from the 50km/hr maximum deserves a ticket?

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by stevo911_

Who is it who actually decides on speed limits? The municipality or MOT?
Seems like some are pretty arbitrary (such as comparing the limits on the stretch between port alberni and ucluelet/tofino and the loop between sooke and cowichan).
The road to Tofino you are starting to get close to pushing the limits for some drivers if you follow all the speed limits and suggested max. corner speeds, which is completely different than the loop where you have much less challenging corners and they're tagged with a lower limit to boot!

That's because they know people will exceed them between Sooke and Cowichan. Cha Ching!

[Solo_D33A]

Originally Posted by sebberry

Are you suggesting that in the pouring rain at night on a narrow road lined with cars on both sides that slowing down a bit from the 50km/hr maximum deserves a ticket?

The ticket-able offense is to be judged by the attending officer. You're to drive according to conditions, but within the MAXIMUM of the posted speed limit, and not to block traffic.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Solo_D33A

The ticket-able offense is to be judged by the attending officer. You're to drive according to conditions, but within the MAXIMUM of the posted speed limit, and not to block traffic.

So you're saying if I am being taigated in poor conditions I should speed up to the speed limit

[underscore]

^ no. I've had a big truck tailgating me in a snowstorm (was in a Jeep). I was travelling quite a bit below the posted limit, he finally made a pass around a corner. by the next corner he was in the ditch.

If the conditions are poor I would find it pretty unlikely that an officer would give you a ticket for being too slow, unless perhaps your idling down the highway in a drizzle.

[Solo_D33A]

Originally Posted by sebberry

So you're saying if I am being taigated in poor conditions I should speed up to the speed limit

Did you see You're to drive according to condition in my post?

[skidmark]

Originally Posted by XtC-604

More like the speed limits are set purposely low, for pigs to ticket people. I mean 50km/r city? Should be around 70

Your ignorance is showing....

[zulutango]

SO who drives 50 in a 50 ? ...most drive 15-20 over the limit and most are already doing 70....now set a 70 limit and now we have people doing Hwy speed...really great for reactiopn times and stopping distances required. Increase the limit and people simply add their own personal speeding choice to the top of it. Happens all the time. Seen it happen in several areas where I worked. It also means increased crashes instead of less ones.

[jlenko]

If I'm the only car around.. I'm going 50.

If there are other vehicles around that I'm driving with.. and they are exceeding 50, I usually go with the flow as going 50 would impede them.. unless they're going excessively fast, I don't bother. But if it's a multi-lane road, I usually stay in the right lane and continue at 50. If they want to pass me, they can do so as they please.

I try and drive the way I want others to drive in MY neighborhood... slow. I don't have kids yet, but when I do.. I don't want them run down by some idiot racing down my side street. If I abide by the rules, maybe it'll rub off on some of the others around me... (wishful thinking?)

[SpoonFit]

Originally Posted by jlenko

If I'm the only car around.. I'm going 50.

If there are other vehicles around that I'm driving with.. and they are exceeding 50, I usually go with the flow as going 50 would impede them.. unless they're going excessively fast, I don't bother. But if it's a multi-lane road, I usually stay in the right lane and continue at 50. If they want to pass me, they can do so as they please.

I try and drive the way I want others to drive in MY neighborhood... slow. I don't have kids yet, but when I do.. I don't want them run down by some idiot racing down my side street. If I abide by the rules, maybe it'll rub off on some of the others around me... (wishful thinking?)

If what your saying is true, than good on you man!

but unfortunately I wish i could say or do the same. Because 50kph is way to GODDAMN SLOW. Like honestly it's not natural to be hitting 50 like for some reason it just feels that way 60 is what the speed limit should be, but anyways just wanted to comment on that!

[jlenko]

I used to drive faster... when I was younger, and the money for tickets didn't seem so bad. Now I can find way more stuff to spend that money on... and being in such a hurry doesn't seem like as good an idea anymore.

There's a country song by Alabama... comes to mind whenever I get passed by someone doing 2x the speed limit... "I'm in a hurry and don't know why"...

[XtC-604]

Originally Posted by skidmark

Your ignorance is showing....

i'm ignorant cause? The average speed most people drive at is 70; hence i suggested 70 as the speed limit. Cops = pigs because what grants them the right to decide whether or not someone should be pulled over. I mean i've had times where i sped right past a interceptor doing 40+ the limit and not been pulled over and times where im doing 60 and been pulled over. There is no STANDARD here is what i'm saying. To make it worse, the police, the supposed role models don't abide by the speed limit either, or when they abuse their powers (using sirens through lights, then turning it off), tailgating people, following people until they get home, give off stupid car mod related tickets.(no standard, some people will get caught with having no cat, but people blowing big stacks of blue or white smoke will not even get a VI for their POS)

Originally Posted by jlenko

If I'm the only car around.. I'm going 50.

If there are other vehicles around that I'm driving with.. and they are exceeding 50, I usually go with the flow as going 50 would impede them.. unless they're going excessively fast, I don't bother. But if it's a multi-lane road, I usually stay in the right lane and continue at 50. If they want to pass me, they can do so as they please.

I try and drive the way I want others to drive in MY neighborhood... slow. I don't have kids yet, but when I do.. I don't want them run down by some idiot racing down my side street. If I abide by the rules, maybe it'll rub off on some of the others around me... (wishful thinking?)

Good if thats what you really do, too many times i've seen TWO of you block a 2 lane road.


I guess the only way for driving in Canada to improve is (deleted for profanity)


system should be changed to that of a European country, IE UK or Germany. Driver license test must be done on a manual car at high way speeds. Stats prove that although the speed limit is higher in europe their accident rate is lower than ours..Why? driver training.

[zulutango]

Maybe then if you suggested what speeds YOU should be permitted to do, under what circumstances because you believe you are a skilled driver? Even skilled drivers have to obey the laws of physics. When you exceed the critical speed of a corner, or you are going too fast to stop suddenly for an object on the road, you suffer the consequences and "skill" cannot possibly prevent them. Maybe you should suggest a list of laws that you want enforced on others and the others you want ignored...as far as applying them to you? We could post them here so that Police would follow your directions.

The other option is that we could simply apply all the laws, all the time to everybody...so when you are doing 60/50 or 40 plus over the limit...or when you remove your cat. converter or mod your vehicle any way other than 100% legal, then you would be instantly charged to the fullest extent of the law, with no discretion? That way it would always be fair to everyone.


It's refreshing to hear somebody complain because they were NOT issued an excessive speed ticket and given a $138 instead. There may have been any number of reasons you were not stopped...on ther way to another important call, a GD member with no ticket book, an out of area Member in transit ( in a PC on the way to a course you have to wear uniform...and a good few times I flashed a warning light instead of holding the driver at roadside until a local Member with a VT showed) or maybe just someone who decided to give you a break. Can't understand you're complaining that you didn't get a VT?

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by XtC-604

i'm ignorant cause? The average speed most people drive at is 70; hence i suggested 70 as the speed limit. Cops = pigs because what grants them the right to decide whether or not someone should be pulled over.

Ummm, the government grants them that right; that's their JOB. They don't set the speed limits, they only enforce them.

And what grants YOU the right to break the law?

I mean i've had times where i sped right past a interceptor doing 40+ the limit and not been pulled over and times where im doing 60 and been pulled over. There is no STANDARD here is what i'm saying.

So you got a break a few times when you should have been handed a massive fine (40+ is, what, $400? $600?), and you're complaining because they nabbed you other times? Wow, that's so stupid. That's like standing at the front of a firing range and complaining that since the guy with the .45 missed you, it's unfair you got shot with a .22.

Hint: DON'T GET IN FRONT OF THE FIRING RANGE TO BEGIN WITH, AND YOU WON'T GET SHOT AT ALL!

[LiquidTurbo]

The law is the law. Just deal with it. Life isn't 100% fair. At least there are SIGNS telling you what the maximum is.

In a perfect reality, there would be 'variable' speed limits. On a sunny summer day, perhaps 80km/h on a stretch of road is perfectly safe. On a stormy slushy day, perhaps the safest max speed is 40km/h.

The engineers decide to set speed to be 60km/h year round. What do you expect them to do? And ask yourself.. when was the last time when you went the speed limit on your trip, afterwards you thought. "man.. going the speed limit today really f'd me over!?"

[Rich Sandor]

Originally Posted by XtC-604

i'm ignorant cause? The average speed most people drive at is 70; hence i suggested 70 as the speed limit. Cops = pigs because what grants them the right to decide whether or not someone should be pulled over. I mean i've had times where i sped right past a interceptor doing 40+ the limit and not been pulled over and times where im doing 60 and been pulled over. There is no STANDARD here is what i'm saying. To make it worse, the police, the supposed role models don't abide by the speed limit either, or when they abuse their powers (using sirens through lights, then turning it off), tailgating people, following people until they get home, give off stupid car mod related tickets.(no standard, some people will get caught with having no cat, but people blowing big stacks of blue or white smoke will not even get a VI for their POS)

Good if thats what you really do, too many times i've seen TWO of you block a 2 lane road.

#1: Cops are human. They make mistakes. If you were a cop, you'd be no different. Pot Kettle Black.

#2: Some cops are traffic enforcement and all they do if pick out minor traffic violations. Others, like gang task force, drugs, etc etc, have more serious things to deal with, and they don't have time to waste on non-related things like loud exhausts or cars going 15kph over. Unless they are on shift with nothing going on, and something rubs them the wrong way.

There are standards, but cops are not robots, nor should they be, and they react to situations based on their common sense and reasoning. And as we know, some people (and some cops) have more common sense and better reasoning than others.

I guess the only way for driving in Canada to improve is (deleted for profanity) system should be changed to that of a European country, IE UK or Germany. Driver license test must be done on a manual car at high way speeds. Stats prove that although the speed limit is higher in europe their accident rate is lower than ours..Why? driver training.

You're on the money there. Our driver training is great for teens, but it doesn't take it to the next step, which is complete vehicle control in all situations. Here, you are taught to keep your speed low, and stay in control. Graduated Licencing and Young Drivers do not properly teach you what happens to a car when you exceed it's braking or cornering grip.

[Rich Sandor]

Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo

The law is the law. Just deal with it. Life isn't 100% fair. At least there are SIGNS telling you what the maximum is.

In a perfect reality, there would be 'variable' speed limits. On a sunny summer day, perhaps 80km/h on a stretch of road is perfectly safe. On a stormy slushy day, perhaps the safest max speed is 40km/h.

The engineers decide to set speed to be 60km/h year round. What do you expect them to do? And ask yourself.. when was the last time when you went the speed limit on your trip, afterwards you thought. "man.. going the speed limit today really f'd me over!?"

Exactly. In europe, 'telematik' signs with variable speed limits are all over the highways. We should have these here. I've been asking for them for years now.