REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

Saml420 · 05-24-2010, 07:42 PM

Hey I just purchased a '96 civic cx hatchback with stock d16y7 and im having the engine rebuilt but not for turbo or s/c. Im looking to achieve roughly 170-180 hp. Im replacing valves, springs, getting head port/polish, new pistons and possibly rods. along with it will be new clutch, cv axles intake mani, headers, catback, cai. Just wondering if I forgot anything or if anyone has any suggestions of things I could do to add more power without going completely over the top.
Thanks in advance!!

bcedhk · 05-24-2010, 07:53 PM

imo, i would just get a used turbo setup and go from there. all that work probably is hard to gain your goal with the d16y7. cause if i rmb correctly, the engine only produces 100 ish whp?

TypeRNammer · 05-24-2010, 08:27 PM

Don't be an idiot to do an N/a Tune on that motor, that's just a money pit with barely any gains.

Cause this is my setup

D16z6
Edelbrock Intake ManiFold
PWJDM Intake
Megan Header
Skunk2 Test Pipe
Skunk2 Catback
Comp Cam 59300
Fidenza Cam Gear
Exedy Stage 1 Clutch
Exedy Light Weight Flywheel
CV Axles

All of this for over $2,000 bucks including labour.

So re-think about what you're doing

afadafa · 05-24-2010, 09:39 PM

I agree with TypeRNammer, I personally feel that performing an NA build on a D-series is a waste of money relative to the power gains it will result in; I think that 1. the motor in question cannot squeeze out that much power under an NA build (I'm not sure if you're suggesting you want to make 170-180 to the flywheel or to the ground, but either way, I don't think it's possible), 2. for the amount of money that you'll put into this NA d-series build, you will be disappointed with the results, and especially 3. if you are already planning to dissect and dismantle the motor to perform this build, it would be extremely wasteful both financially and with time. You're going to dismantle your motor and replace your existing parts with aftermarket parts, you might as well replace them with forged internals to support a forced induction application. All in all, I think that for the money you will spend on the forced induction route, relative to the performance gains (i.e. both in horsepower and torque), you will be much more satisfied. I realize that, of course, everyone has a budget and perhaps forced induction is too pricey but I'm merely pointing out that for the money you will have to put in for the NA D-series build, you will not be satisfied with the output and a achievement of 170-180 HP is probably not possible. Personally, I also feel that either performing a B-series swap (i.e. from a ITR or GSR) or building your D-series for boost are better options which will fulfill your power/ output requirements more realistically. Good luck with your build!

TypeRNammer · 05-24-2010, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afadafa

I agree with TypeRNammer, I personally feel that performing an NA build on a D-series is a waste of money relative to the power gains it will result in; I think that 1. the motor in question cannot squeeze out that much power under an NA build (I'm not sure if you're suggesting you want to make 170-180 to the flywheel or to the ground, but either way, I don't think it's possible),

2. for the amount of money that you'll put into this NA d-series build, you will be disappointed with the results, and especially

3. if you are already planning to dissect and dismantle the motor to perform this build, it would be extremely wasteful both financially and with time. You're going to dismantle your motor and replace your existing parts with aftermarket parts, you might as well replace them with forged internals to support a forced induction application. All in all, I think that for the money you will spend on the forced induction route, relative to the performance gains (i.e. both in horsepower and torque), you will be much more satisfied. I realize that, of course, everyone has a budget and perhaps forced induction is too pricey but I'm merely pointing out that for the money you will have to put in for the NA D-series build, you will not be satisfied with the output and a achievement of 170-180 HP is probably not possible. Personally, I also feel that either performing a B-series swap (i.e. from a ITR or GSR) or building your D-series for boost are better options which will fulfill your power/ output requirements more realistically. Good luck with your build!

A decent amount of info here!

If you want an absolute full N/A build on the D series, check out the Bisimoto builds....over $8,000 USD and only to get upto 180hp at the flywheel (I think)

spoon.ek9 · 05-24-2010, 10:38 PM

as soon as i saw d16y7 i knew it was a waste of time lol. do a different engine. even guys who have done the mini-me swap (adding a d16y8 head for vtec) have said it's a complete waste of money.

save up, do a b series. or be balla and save up for a k series!

tofu1413 · 05-24-2010, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoon.ek9

as soon as i saw d16y7 i knew it was a waste of time lol. do a different engine. even guys who have done the mini-me swap (adding a d16y8 head for vtec) have said it's a complete waste of money.

save up, do a b series. or be balla and save up for a k series!

what this guy said.

or even more balla status, J series too

Saml420 · 05-25-2010, 08:32 PM

ah thanks for info. well, my budget is roughly 3000-3500 for the engine. I dont know if that would get me a full turbo build with forged internals, not that it wouldnt be nice. I considered a b18b swap but i wasnt sure what else you would have to swap to go along with it, my last car was a 97 integra ls and it seemed to have a fair bit of power.

tofu1413 · 05-25-2010, 08:41 PM

B18b= more torque. i dont really think 3-4k is enough for something turboed and forge internal'ed...

theres a dude here selling a B18C5 from an ITR for about 2500 obo.. that is more than enough for your car, and all you would need is a transmission and some minor wiring done.

spoon.ek9 · 05-26-2010, 06:29 PM

^ it's going into his EK hatch. it will need a lot more than just wiring and a tranny

tofu1413 · 05-26-2010, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoon.ek9

^ it's going into his EK hatch. it will need a lot more than just wiring and a tranny

you mean also throw in time, patience and alcohol?

spoon.ek9 · 05-27-2010, 06:17 PM

engine/tranny mounts, ecu, engine harness, possibly obd change, etc.

then he would need to work on suspension and brakes to be able to stop all the extra weight and power.

TheSalesman · 05-27-2010, 06:47 PM

just drop in an H22....That should be doable with about $4000. Cheaper if you wait for good deals.

spoon.ek9 · 05-27-2010, 07:47 PM

on the plus side, his car is a CX so it should have the manual steering rack. therefore, no real need to deal with adding a powersteering pump (and the corresponding p/s steering rack).

XtC-604 · 05-27-2010, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoon.ek9

as soon as i saw d16y7 i knew it was a waste of time lol. do a different engine. even guys who have done the mini-me swap (adding a d16y8 head for vtec) have said it's a complete waste of money.

save up, do a b series. or be balla and save up for a k series!

or be more balla and do an f20c rwd civic

TheSalesman · 05-27-2010, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XtC-604

or be more balla and do an f20c rwd civic

but he already said his budget is 3000-3500....lol

you! · 05-27-2010, 11:36 PM

so..u had an ls motor on ur integra b4 and now u wanna do an na build on a y7....

sorry but i think i would be happier with ur old stock ls vs a built y7

welfare · 05-29-2010, 09:15 AM

i don't think it's fair to dismiss the potential of a D-NA build. 180 to the crank is not all that difficult to attain on a single cam. i mean, break it down. what are we looking at here? what's the difference? it's got the same displacement as a b16. it's lighter. the rotating assembly requires less force to move a single cam. it has the same number of valves. so what is the big difference? 2 separate cams to run the intake and exhaust valves? that can be offset with the right choice of cam. all you have to do is look at weak points and improve them. you can stuff air into a d-series, compress it and blow it out just as easily as a b.
there are some pretty sick d series builds out there. they didn't require boatloads of money. just research, the right combination of parts, proper tuning, and more research

obviously, when you start off with a b-series, you're starting off with more power. you're also paying a good chunk for that swap. is that chunk worth the extra 40 some odd hp? people will argue that the potential of the b is greater than the d though. i disagree. the potential of your engine is only as great as your research, your machine shop, and your tuner

Saml420 · 05-29-2010, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by welfare

i don't think it's fair to dismiss the potential of a D-NA build. 180 to the crank is not all that difficult to attain on a single cam. i mean, break it down. what are we looking at here? what's the difference? it's got the same displacement as a b16. it's lighter. the rotating assembly requires less force to move a single cam. it has the same number of valves. so what is the big difference? 2 separate cams to run the intake and exhaust valves? that can be offset with the right choice of cam. all you have to do is look at weak points and improve them. you can stuff air into a d-series, compress it and blow it out just as easily as a b.
there are some pretty sick d series builds out there. they didn't require boatloads of money. just research, the right combination of parts, proper tuning, and more research

obviously, when you start off with a b-series, you're starting off with more power. you're also paying a good chunk for that swap. is that chunk worth the extra 40 some odd hp? people will argue that the potential of the b is greater than the d though. i disagree. the potential of your engine is only as great as your research, your machine shop, and your tuner

Yes, I agree with you lol, a b series swap would be nice but it would eat up most of my funds. I kinda like my little d series, i have magnaflow catback, and AEM short ram, seeing as ive only had the car for roughly a week.
I was thinking of maybe a going higher compression. ill have to do my research and find what suits me best

welfare · 05-29-2010, 12:15 PM

yes. research is by far your most valuable asset. research of both sides.
i know what people here are saying. i did my mini me back in the day and it cost me an arm and a leg. vtec was virtually invisible and the gains were minimal. i went about it the wrong way. the money i spent on an oem rebuild, head, obd0-1 conv. could have went towards actually making the car fast(er). before you spend another dime, research, research and research some more. i mean, it's out there and it's free, so you only have something to gain by doing so

Mr.Jay · 05-29-2010, 02:09 PM

I was in the same boat as you when I picked up my 96 hatch

was gonna build the D for boost but then choose to go b18b with plans for boost in near future. With your budget you could go b18b (big difference compared to the d) and than boost the stock block and be more than happy. Of course I would say build the block a bit afterwards as well but the b18b is strong enough to deal with 250hp without being built or so I have heard

spoon.ek9 · 05-29-2010, 07:36 PM

i don't think anyone here will dispute a D-series can make excellent whp, but i'm very sure 95% of us wouldn't start with a D16Y7. a z6, y8 or even an a6 would be a better option.

i too would recommend a b18b. it supposedly has the best low down torque and pairs well with a turbo. also, you can add a vtec head to that down the road.