at risk of getting 7N licence suspended?

[gars]

how fast were you actually going?

I've been driving to and from work everyday for the past 2 months now, and I've been taking a few different routes, but I don't actually find the "flow of traffic" to be much higher than the speed limit (for example, 50 zone - people go 60, 70 zone, people go 75-80, 80 zone on the highway, most people go 85-90). I find people accelerate faster, but if I were to slow down to the actual limit, people wouldn't be blasting past me...

[swfk]

Hi guys I didn't want to start a new thread but I saw this thread so I guess I'll post here since I'm worried that I'm at potential of having my 7N licence suspended.

So here's my situation, I've gotten my N in May of this year. Two weeks ago I was caught on radar on Knight st. just getting off the bridge doing exactly 90km/h on the radar gun in a 50km/h zone since it's right after the bridge northbound. My friends and family have told me that Knight st. getting off the bridge northbound is a usual spot for officers to catch people speeding, with radar guns. I was going 40km/h over the speed limit at that spot, however the officer was nice enough to give me an "unsafe pass on the right" ticket (158(2)(a)) which is 2 points because he said I have a clean driving record so he won't make me go through all the hassle of being suspended and getting towed, I thank him very much!

Exactly a week later on a Tuesday night on Bridgeport rd. in Richmond at 10:30pm going home. I had a cold and I was really tired, I just wanted to be home at the snap of a finger. I didn't watch my speed too well (I know I'm dumb) and there were no cars ahead or directly behind me that I knew of, however I see a pair of headlights about a block away though. I got to a red light and the car behind was up against my bumper. After the intersection I was pulled over from behind by an officer, he said I was going 86km/h on Bridgeport rd. which is a 50km/h zone. He gave me a ticket for "speeding in municipality" (146(1)) which is 3 points. Though I'm not exactly sure how he measured my speed, my friend said something about officers having radars inside their car or something I'm not sure.

I now have a total of 5 points of violation. I really learned my lesson to always watch my speed in whatever condition I am in. I'm wondering, am I going to get suspended with 5 points? I really need my licence for commutes to school and errands for school work. If I do get suspended with 5 points, should I dispute the speeding in municipality violation? I'm not even sure if I hit 86km/h it seemed more like 70km/h to me really and there were no cars in front of me or beside me at 10:30pm.

Sorry for the long read, I need some help and I hope I could provide enough information for you guys to help me out. Please shed some light!

Thanks!

[Lolkai]

Unfortunately I think there isn't much you can do... If you have a legitimate reasoning you could try to dispute the second ticket for "speeding in municipality". And thats strange how the PO from your first ticket went from excessive speeding to an unsafe right pass...

I am not sure how police would measure your speed if they were in their vehicle as well but most likely they were going like 85km/h+ to catch up to you so they said that? If anyone else could clarify that it would be great!

But yea you can dispute the tickets for a reduced amount and IF it does get suspended you can request for a reduced suspension time to like 2 months I think?

[zulutango]

It's unfortunate that you didn't learn your lesson after the first ticket. Now you have put yourself into the position where you are likely looking at a suspension. The problem is not in either individual ticket but that you now have two. I'm wondering why you didn't learn your lesson after the huge break you got with the VT that could have resulted in an impound? Those are the sort of questions a Traffic Court JP or the Supt. M. Vehs would likely ask you in any sort of plea for mercy and I think you should haver asked yourself before it got this far. Some might say that maybe it's time to face the music and man up to your driving style? BTW, for your info and that of others here...a Radar set in " parallel mode" is designed to read the speed of a vehicle pulling away from in front of it and that sounds like your second VT. He could also have been parked in the dark in a lot when you went by. All sorts of ways to get a reading with no vehicle behind you.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by zulutango

I'm wondering why you didn't learn your lesson after the huge break you got with the VT that could have resulted in an impound?

Heck, if you believe sebberry, you're lucky you didn't get impounded on the second one, too!

[swfk]

Originally Posted by Lolkai

Unfortunately I think there isn't much you can do... If you have a legitimate reasoning you could try to dispute the second ticket for "speeding in municipality". And thats strange how the PO from your first ticket went from excessive speeding to an unsafe right pass...

I am not sure how police would measure your speed if they were in their vehicle as well but most likely they were going like 85km/h+ to catch up to you so they said that? If anyone else could clarify that it would be great!

But yea you can dispute the tickets for a reduced amount and IF it does get suspended you can request for a reduced suspension time to like 2 months I think?

I don't know if being sick and being tired would be a good reason to the judge if I went to dispute the second violation. The officer that gave me the first ticket said I shouldn't dispute it because he'd simply show up and say I was excessively speeding which I will follow his advice and thank him very much.

Thanks for the input!

Originally Posted by zulutango

It's unfortunate that you didn't learn your lesson after the first ticket. Now you have put yourself into the position where you are likely looking at a suspension. The problem is not in either individual ticket but that you now have two. I'm wondering why you didn't learn your lesson after the huge break you got with the VT that could have resulted in an impound? Those are the sort of questions a Traffic Court JP or the Supt. M. Vehs would likely ask you in any sort of plea for mercy and I think you should haver asked yourself before it got this far. Some might say that maybe it's time to face the music and man up to your driving style? BTW, for your info and that of others here...a Radar set in " parallel mode" is designed to read the speed of a vehicle pulling away from in front of it and that sounds like your second VT. He could also have been parked in the dark in a lot when you went by. All sorts of ways to get a reading with no vehicle behind you.

I said before that I just wanted to be home because I was sick so I was driving a bit faster because there were no cars in front or directly behind or beside. However I now know that there are no exceptions to be able to speed. My driving style has been the same way actually, only thing that has changed is my thoughts on having the right to be over the speed limit by 20 in a safer situation, I now know that there are absolutely no exceptions. Thanks for the input!


As of now I *think* I will dispute my second violation because of my condition and situation.

If anyone else could help me out, please provide me some input. Thanks

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by swfk

I don't know if being sick and being tired would be a good reason to the judge if I went to dispute the second violation.

I don't know that I'd admit to be tired - that can be construed as "driving while impaired".

[swfk]

Originally Posted by Soundy

I don't know that I'd admit to be tired - that can be construed as "driving while impaired".

What are the consequences if I was pleaded to driving while impaired?
Posted via RS Mobile

[CRS]

Originally Posted by swfk

What are the consequences if I was pleaded to driving while impaired?
Posted via RS Mobile

Worse than that of speeding.

[swfk]

Originally Posted by Soundy

I don't know that I'd admit to be tired - that can be construed as "driving while impaired".

Originally Posted by CRS

Worse than that of speeding.

I'm not too familiar with driving while impaired so I googled it. On the Ontario government site it said impaired driving is only influence from drugs or alcohol. I wasn't affected by drugs or alcohol, but being tired and having a cold which I did not take medication for.

[zulutango]

You would then be guilty under the MVA for driving without due care. Telling the JP that you were speeding because you knew that you were unable to drive properly and safely and felt sick is gonna open a whole new can of worms. Thats similar to someone who tells a Cop that they were speeding because they were low on gas and had to reach a gas station before they ran out. Yes I have had people tell me this...and yes they were serious and no it did not get them out of a ticket. A sensible driver would not have been driving in the first place if they felt that bad...and if they actually drove then they should have been driving slower, not faster.

[MrGoodbar]

Originally Posted by swfk

I'm not too familiar with driving while impaired so I googled it. On the Ontario government site it said impaired driving is only influence from drugs or alcohol. I wasn't affected by drugs or alcohol, but being tired and having a cold which I did not take medication for.

Whatever your story you are telling us here, it doesn't matter. What matters is whether you have evidence to prove you innocent in front of the judge. If it were as easy as saying that you were sick and you had to speed to get home quicker to get out of a ticket, then everyone would have done it. Fact is, you had some cognative ability at the time and you got behind the wheel, since you were not intoxicated in any way by drugs or alcohol it was YOUR CALL.

Look at it from the judge's perspective. You've been caught red-handed breaking the law and you've come to his courtroom to make up an excuse to get out of paying with your license or your wallet. To him, it was your judgement to ignore the speedometer and your judgement to get in the car in the first place.

Before you get all pissed off at me being a pessimist and all, here's one thing you can plead, is that you're a student and that you're on a student loan and bargain to lower your fine or even some points to be ignored. Come up with something believable that you are in a state of need. Not some excuse like "my dog ate my homework" or "I sneezed causing my left foot to turn into lead" bullshit. It better be damn-well believable too beacuse if you're driving an M3 or you're wearing your swank G-STAAAAAH bullshit, no judge is gonna accept that you're in financial hardship.

Think about it, when you are sick for a midterm exam and didn't go, will your prof accept your word that you were sick without question and just let you omit the exam? Or a late homework assignment without taking off at least 10% per day without a note or some sort of alibi.

READ THIS VERY CAREFULLY:

The judge will not buy that a car to commute to school as a necessity unless you live a city away. There's the bus and he'll most likely dismiss your plead that you need a car to go to school. There are other people who bus to school and your need for a car does not excuse you from the law. Deal with it.

I'm no lawyer, but these would be questions I'd be asking someone if they try to get out of something for nothing. Put yourself in someone elses' shoes and ask WTF does this punk want?

The only best case scenario I can think of is if you go to court, and the cop doesn't show up. Otherwise, nut up or shut up.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by swfk

I'm not too familiar with driving while impaired so I googled it. On the Ontario government site it said impaired driving is only influence from drugs or alcohol. I wasn't affected by drugs or alcohol, but being tired and having a cold which I did not take medication for.

You're not in Ontario anymore, Dorothy.

[zulutango]

Criminal code impairment is by drug/alcohol only. Serction 253 CC.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by zulutango

Criminal code impairment is by drug/alcohol only. Serction 253 CC.

Serction? :

[CRS]

Originally Posted by MrGoodbar

Whatever your story you are telling us here, it doesn't matter. What matters is whether you have evidence to prove you innocent in front of the judge. If it were as easy as saying that you were sick and you had to speed to get home quicker to get out of a ticket, then everyone would have done it. Fact is, you had some cognative ability at the time and you got behind the wheel, since you were not intoxicated in any way by drugs or alcohol it was YOUR CALL.

Look at it from the judge's perspective. You've been caught red-handed breaking the law and you've come to his courtroom to make up an excuse to get out of paying with your license or your wallet. To him, it was your judgement to ignore the speedometer and your judgement to get in the car in the first place.

Before you get all pissed off at me being a pessimist and all, here's one thing you can plead, is that you're a student and that you're on a student loan and bargain to lower your fine or even some points to be ignored. Come up with something believable that you are in a state of need. Not some excuse like "my dog ate my homework" or "I sneezed causing my left foot to turn into lead" bullshit. It better be damn-well believable too beacuse if you're driving an M3 or you're wearing your swank G-STAAAAAH bullshit, no judge is gonna accept that you're in financial hardship.

Think about it, when you are sick for a midterm exam and didn't go, will your prof accept your word that you were sick without question and just let you omit the exam? Or a late homework assignment without taking off at least 10% per day without a note or some sort of alibi.

READ THIS VERY CAREFULLY:

The judge will not buy that a car to commute to school as a necessity unless you live a city away. There's the bus and he'll most likely dismiss your plead that you need a car to go to school. There are other people who bus to school and your need for a car does not excuse you from the law. Deal with it.

I'm no lawyer, but these would be questions I'd be asking someone if they try to get out of something for nothing. Put yourself in someone elses' shoes and ask WTF does this punk want?

The only best case scenario I can think of is if you go to court, and the cop doesn't show up. Otherwise, nut up or shut up.

Cannot be done. Points are associated with the offense and even at that, there is a minimum penalty that needs to be met. Unless the ticket/offense itself changed, there is no way to reduce the points associated with the ticket. Likewise, if the ticket was given at the lowest possible penalty, it cannot be reduced anymore.

[hchang]

Just out of curiousity... how does the police know that drivers are under the influence of drugs?

I don't know the effects of the other drugs, but the only physical sign of the driver under the influence of marijuana is bloodshot eyes, but can be easily fixed by Visine, and slower reactions. But I know of some people who have mastered the art of acting sober while under the influence of Marijuana.

If the police asks for a urine sample, sure it'll turn out positive, but you can't tell for sure when the person used the drug. If I remember correctly, weed stays in your system for 3 weeks? So in the driver's defense... he could just say he used marijuana at some point within the last 3 weeks?

[zulutango]

Rather than giving you a shopping list of indicators of impairment, let me just say that SFST training lets us look for things like...the smell of marijuana, the way your eyes react, your physical responses, inability to judge certain things, the way you were driving. Then we call a drug recognition expert who runs even more extensive tests on you. Signs of impairment are just that. If we see some we look further. A drugged driver may have "mastered the art of acting sober", but they cannot counteract the effects of the inmpairment and an impaired driver is a dangerous one and how they got impaired doesn't really matter.

[sho_bc]

Originally Posted by hchang

Just out of curiousity... how does the police know that drivers are under the influence of drugs?

You'd be surprised at the number of people who admit to having recently smoked marihuana, or done ecstasy, etc.

[hchang]

Originally Posted by zulutango

Rather than giving you a shopping list of indicators of impairment, let me just say that SFST training lets us look for things like...the smell of marijuana, the way your eyes react, your physical responses, inability to judge certain things, the way you were driving. Then we call a drug recognition expert who runs even more extensive tests on you. Signs of impairment are just that. If we see some we look further. A drugged driver may have "mastered the art of acting sober", but they cannot counteract the effects of the inmpairment and an impaired driver is a dangerous one and how they got impaired doesn't really matter.

Thanks for your response.

Marijuana can be consumed through cookies, brownies etc as well, so the smell would not be present at all times.

Physical responses and the ways eyes react would be a giveaway for people who have been through the training I guess. But couldn't the accused just state in his defense that he has physical problems?

And may I ask what kind of further tests are performed by a drug recognition expert?

No, I do not condone or partake in driving under the influence of drugs/alcohol for those wondering

Originally Posted by sho_bc

You'd be surprised at the number of people who admit to having recently smoked marihuana, or done ecstasy, etc.

Admitting to recently using drugs does does not matter unless you're under the influence, no?

Thanks for your response.

[zulutango]

Originally Posted by Soundy

Serction? :

Yers...yieu git a priblim wit dat?