flashing driver to warn of a speed trap

[jigga250]

So I'm under the impression that this is illegal, but here's the situation: Driving from Calgary to Vancouver last week (at night), I had several drivers flash me to warn of speed traps. I also flashed a couple drivers to warn of deer in the middle of the road (crossing my side of the highway, headed to the other side).

So how is it possible to prove that someone was "obstructing justice" or whatever the charge is when someone gets a ticket for flashing oncoming cars? Whats to stop them from saying "I was trying to warn him of a deer crossing the road", or whatever? I don't see how it can be proven that the person was intentionally trying to warn of the speed trap.

Personally......either way the end result is that people are slowing down, which I think is the goal of a speed trap, so I don't see what the problem is with warning others.

[Brianrietta]

Originally Posted by jigga250

Personally......either way the end result is that people are slowing down, which I think is the goal of a speed trap, so I don't see what the problem is with warning others.

Except that as soon as an aggressive/speeding driver gets through the speed trap they're just going to resume speeding. Getting caught and having the financial penalties levied against them may well create enough of an economic incentive to slow them down, as caring about their safety and that of anyone else on the road is obviously not sufficient.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by jigga250

So how is it possible to prove that someone was "obstructing justice" or whatever the charge is when someone gets a ticket for flashing oncoming cars?

The charge is usually improper use of a lighting device, or something similar.

On my motorcycle I will tap my helmet (ie "heads up") or make the whirly bird sign (one finger up, doing circles) so watch for this too.

[Jermyzy]

I've seen times it appears as if the car was flashing its lights, but it was simply a bumpy road. What would the cop use as "evidence" to support the ticket if the person denied flashing his headlights??

[zulutango]

If you operate your high beams...you can be charged for...

[I]Multiple beam headlamps

4.06 (1) The headlamps of a motor vehicle must function so that the driver may select lamps capable of displaying


((5) A person who drives or operates a motor vehicle must not illuminate the upper beam of a headlamp if another motor vehicle is within a distance of 150 m from that vehicle, unless the driver has overtaken and passed the other vehicle, so that the high intensity portion of the beam does not strike or reflect into the eye of the other driver[/I]


When I saw flashing going on I would stop the driver and find out why they were doing it. If there was no legal excuse then I would consider a VT...or if they said that they had a defective headlight system that was flashing without their knowledge then they got an inspection order. I also pointed out that by warning other drivers they may be helping an impaired/prohibited driver get away..they may help an idiot who is weaving in and out of traffic, tailgating and cutting people off.....they could also be warning the driver of their stolen car/bike get away...or someone carrying contraband like drugs or stolen property...or someone who was subject to an arrest warrant. You have no idea who you are helping avoid possible detection.

[Rich Sandor]

Obstruction of Justice means that you are preventing or obstructing an officer from doing his job.

Flashing your lights to warn other drivers does not prevent an officer from using his LIDAR gun to measure a car's speed. However, it may prevent the officer from catching speeders who have already been speeding.

If a robber is setting out to rob a bank and you tell him not to do it because he will get caught: that's NOT obstruction of justice. If a robber has already robbed a bank, and the police are trying to catch him, and you warn him of the police: that IS obstruction of justice.

Those are the facts. Now comes my experience/opinion:

If you get charged with obstruction of justice, you just have to say that you were warning the other driver not to speed up. No offense was committed, so no obstruction of justice occurred.

If someone is driving dangerously, weaving, tailgating, etc, they need to be caught and fined. I won't warn anyone who is obviously driving like a jerk.

Conversely, if someone is cruising at 130-140kph on the coquihalla, which is a reasonably safe speed on many parts of the coq, in light traffic and fair weather, I WILL warn of blatant speed traps up ahead. I was told that sections of the coquihalla and connector were engineered to sustain 180-200kph speeds. Temper that statement with the knowledge that although the road surface was designed with those speeds in mind, the barriers and shoulders were not built to the same standards. I have had wildlife jump out at me on the Coq at 140kph and it's no big deal, but at 200kph I might have been eating a coyote sandwich.

So obviously there has to be some discretion in terms of when you flash/warn other drivers, if you choose to do so.

There is always the lame argument that speed traps also catch murderers and car thieves etc etc but that is clearly not the intent of a speed trap that is placed in an area where there are never accidents and traffic tends to speed simply because the speed limit is too low.

[Rich Sandor]

the upper beam of a headlamp ... within a distance of 150 m from that vehicle

Key parts of the offense. There are lots of ways to flash other drivers legally.

Bear in mind, this is a section that varies greatly from province to province and state to state.

[zulutango]

[QUOTE=Rich Sandor;7493260]Key parts of the offense. There are lots of ways to flash other drivers legally.

Yes but how do you get yer butt in the side window or drop yer tube top, New Orleans style...and control the car safely at the same time..

[BrRsn]

I do it all the time on the ubc/sfu highway. If I get caught, I get caught, but if everyone does it, it's bound to save me a ticket or two which makes it worth it lol. Everyone speeds, its basically accepted that going 60 is "legal" on most main city streets where the limit is 50. It is definitely illegal to do though.

And even if I do help someone evade a ticket, they're most likely a student like me, and money's usually already pretty tight for most people.

[Energy]

I ALWAYS flash my highbeams when I see a speed trap.

Especially on the UBC highway where I got my only speeding ticket on a bright sunny Sunday where there was no/minimal traffic. I'm happy if I can save even one other driver from a ticket.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by zulutango

When I saw flashing going on I would stop the driver and find out why they were doing it. If there was no legal excuse then I would consider a VT...or if they said that they had a defective headlight system that was flashing without their knowledge then they got an inspection order. I also pointed out that by warning other drivers they may be helping an impaired/prohibited driver get away..they may help an idiot who is weaving in and out of traffic, tailgating and cutting people off.....they could also be warning the driver of their stolen car/bike get away...or someone carrying contraband like drugs or stolen property...or someone who was subject to an arrest warrant. You have no idea who you are helping avoid possible detection.

I understand where you're coming from, yet that is a very weak excuse since those same drivers could easily pass any speed trap while the average motorist doing 20 over gets a ticket.

[Great68]

I always thought the basic goal of speed traps was to get motorists to slow down in general.

Warning drivers of an upcoming speed traps gets them to slow down, doesn't it?

To find excuses to ticket the people giving warnings seems like a dick move to me, and makes it seem like speed traps are more about issuing tickets than slowing down cars overall.

[Glove]

I do it all the time,

pigs dont be needin anymore of our money

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by Glove

I do it all the time,

pigs dont be needin anymore of our money

I'm not a police officer, and yet I get offended when I see others refer to them as "pigs". Show some respect.

Second, I'm pretty sure that the fines collected don't go to the police.

[Glove]

^
you call them what you want,

I call them what I want.

Why would I have respect for people who go out of their way to make good citizens lives hell?

im talking about traffic cops specifically, not the actual good ones that go after drugs and murders

[Great68]

Originally Posted by Glove

^
you call them what you want,

I call them what I want.

Why would I have respect for people who go out of their way to make good citizens lives hell?

Because they are guests of Revscene, and you are in THEIR forum.

[Rich Sandor]

Why would I have respect for people who go out of their way to make good citizens lives hell?

im talking about traffic cops specifically, not the actual good ones that go after drugs and murders

BECAUSE, without traffic enforcement (and bylaw/parking enforcement) everyone would just do whatever the hell they want.

We NEED traffic enforcement to stop and ticket drivers who do not obey the law, and especially drivers who do something unsafe. It has nothing to do with being a good citizen. You can be a great person and still make a mistake behind the wheel that warrants getting a ticket. If you didn't get a ticket, and just got a warning, you would be doing it all the time because you know you can get away with it.

The challenge is getting an officer to use their discretion. Should you pull someone over for doing 60kph in a 50 zone? Probably not. Should you ticket someone for doing 115kph in a 100kph zone when everyone is doing 110-115kph? probably not. Should you ticket someone for doing 40+kph over the limit? OF COURSE.

Yes there are some cops who don't know how to use their discretion or common sense or are too arrogant or power-tripping for their own good, but there are people like that EVERYWHERE. Don't paint all traffic cops with the same brush. I've run into some that turned out to be really great guys.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by Glove

^
you call them what you want,

I call them what I want.

Why would I have respect for people who go out of their way to make good citizens lives hell?

im talking about traffic cops specifically, not the actual good ones that go after drugs and murders

Do you know that to get traffic duty an officer has to have several years of duty, so usually its the better officers that get traffic duty. Now do you know why? More people are killed in traffic accidents than murdered.

Do you know why locations are chosen for speed traps? Usually they are around areas of high accidents, or sensitive areas (like schools). For instance on my commute I know where there are usually a few speed traps:
1. Oak and 31st southbound, cause Oak and 33rd is bad intersection for accidents, and one that a lot of students cross. There is a new red light camera there now too!
2. Oak and 54th southbound, cause cars fly down that hill and often run the light at 57th.
3. Oak and 71st southbound, cause cars speed up far too early for the bridge without realizing there are pedestrians and bike crossing nearby to get on/off the bridge.
4. King Ed and Granville westbound, cause people often speed down King Ed and the next section of King Ed from Granville to Arbutus has several schools, so slow down!

So as much as I hate these speed traps too, I cannot say the police are merely being "tax collectors" cause each speed trap exists for a good reason.

[taylor192]

Originally Posted by Rich Sandor

The challenge is getting an officer to use their discretion. Should you pull someone over for doing 60kph in a 50 zone? Probably not. Should you ticket someone for doing 115kph in a 100kph zone when everyone is doing 110-115kph? probably not. Should you ticket someone for doing 40+kph over the limit? OF COURSE.

In the last week I've gone through 2 speed traps doing 20 over without even a warning. By Spanish Banks I was probably closer to 25-30 over on my motorcycle and thought I was done, yet nothing.

So I hate when people are so quick to judge, I've been the beneficiary of many officer's discretion far more often than I've gotten a ticket.

[CRS]

Originally Posted by Glove

^
you call them what you want,

I call them what I want.

Why would I have respect for people who go out of their way to make good citizens lives hell?

im talking about traffic cops specifically, not the actual good ones that go after drugs and murders

Where's my fail button at?

Relatively sure police officers don't go out of their way to make good citizen's lives hell.

I'm pretty sure 99% of the time, the "good citizens" are the ones who pick a fight that they can't finish. It's probably morons (like yourself) who when pulled over try to act all tough and try to make the officer's day more difficult so he/she returns the favour.

Its either that you just talk a tough game and that you'll NEVER call a police officer a pig to his face.

Pick one of the above.

[sebberry]

Not all speed traps are set up in high crash locations.

Also, I think I've been through one school zone speed trap this past school year. Compare that to the dozen or so I've been through on the highways where I never hear about collisions.


As for flashing other drivers, I flashed one car to tell the driver that the high beams were on. There was a police man up ahead parked sneakily off to the side who gave me a stern look. So as far as I'm concerned, if I'm flashing someone its because they have their high beams on. Or a set of HIDs in a reflector housing


But do keep this in mind: There's nothing prohibiting you from flashing your fog lights, and your fog lights can be on at any time of day or night, good weather or bad

[Glove]

Originally Posted by CRS

Where's my fail button at?

Relatively sure police officers don't go out of their way to make good citizen's lives hell.

I'm pretty sure 99% of the time, the "good citizens" are the ones who pick a fight that they can't finish. It's probably morons (like yourself) who when pulled over try to act all tough and try to make the officer's day more difficult so he/she returns the favour.

Its either that you just talk a tough game and that you'll NEVER call a police officer a pig to his face.

Pick one of the above.

i havent gotten pulled over in 5 years, my hate just comes from when I was young.

I went to court one time to dispute a U-turn ticket, and the "pig" came up to me before we went inside and told me to plead guilty or else he will ask the judge to take my lisence away,

I asked him why would he do that?

and he said "because I can"

he was literally just trying to make my life miserable, because it was fun for him. Not once did I ever give him an ounce if disrespect, from the moment he pulled me over, to the minute I left the court room.

another insident when I had my N, being young and cool, I "cut out" my N so it was black. Got pulled over and the cop said if I couldnt call one of my friends to bring me a real N sign in the next 10 minutes, he was towing my car.

how in the fucking hell is that not trying to make good peoples lives hell? again I never even gave the cop so much as a bad look, I spoke politely and gave the utmost respect.

or how about the cop who gave me a V.I for having a lowered car? when in fact my fucking car wasnt even lowered, it just had 17's on it with 50 big tires.

this same cop pulls me over the next week and tries to V.I me AGAIN for the same thing, even after I showed him the fucking inspection papers.

say what you will, I have no respect for them, because I have yet to meet ONE that has shown me respect.

well actually there was one traffic cop lady in chilliwack who pulled me over and was the nicest person ever, but that was one out of like 10?

and yes, if I was in an argument with a cop, on the street, sure I would call him a pig, why not? whats he gonna do?

as long as theres no way for him to give me any tickets out of spite.

[325isMSPORT]

^cop said i was making faces haha. and apparently having a slouch in your seating position means you're texting...
of course a blank text history of 24 hrs saved me hah

[MindBomber]

Ironically, you "hate" officers and refer to them as "pigs" due to the percieved lack of respect you've been shown on multiple occasions.

While the rest of us respect officers and are offended by them being referred to as pigs, but recieve nothing but fair and respectful treatment.

Originally Posted by Glove

i havent gotten pulled over in 5 years, my hate just comes from when I was young.

I went to court one time to dispute a U-turn ticket, and the "pig" came up to me before we went inside and told me to plead guilty or else he will ask the judge to take my lisence away,

I asked him why would he do that?

and he said "because I can"

he was literally just trying to make my life miserable, because it was fun for him. Not once did I ever give him an ounce if disrespect, from the moment he pulled me over, to the minute I left the court room.

another insident when I had my N, being young and cool, I "cut out" my N so it was black. Got pulled over and the cop said if I couldnt call one of my friends to bring me a real N sign in the next 10 minutes, he was towing my car.

how in the fucking hell is that not trying to make good peoples lives hell? again I never even gave the cop so much as a bad look, I spoke politely and gave the utmost respect.

or how about the cop who gave me a V.I for having a lowered car? when in fact my fucking car wasnt even lowered, it just had 17's on it with 50 big tires.

this same cop pulls me over the next week and tries to V.I me AGAIN for the same thing, even after I showed him the fucking inspection papers.

say what you will, I have no respect for them, because I have yet to meet ONE that has shown me respect.

well actually there was one traffic cop lady in chilliwack who pulled me over and was the nicest person ever, but that was one out of like 10?

and yes, if I was in an argument with a cop, on the street, sure I would call him a pig, why not? whats he gonna do?

as long as theres no way for him to give me any tickets out of spite.

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[zulutango]

I also wondered how he kept running into all those hateful Cops everwhere and over an extended period of time. Figure the odds eh?