REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

ForbiddenX · 12-08-2011, 09:44 PM

Hey guys,

I'm in the market for a new car and have narrowed down the choices. Now my question is, how effective are the ConsumerReports price report and the car cost saver?

Is it worth the $40 to get a subscription and get the invoice prices that I need? How often will the dealership actually work around those numbers instead of just ignoring it?

Thanks!

Jgresch · 12-08-2011, 09:50 PM

What is car cost saver? Does it tell you estimated amount paid by dealer for the car?

If so and the car your looking at is sub $30k I wouldn't bother, what vehicles if you don't mind me asking?

NLY · 12-08-2011, 10:06 PM

I think with decent negotiation skills you should be able to get a decent deal without the Consumerreport's price report.

Then again its only $40 so it's not exactly going to break the bank.

My opinion, do without the consumer report

ForbiddenX · 12-08-2011, 10:28 PM

Sorry I meant Car Cost Canada, not sure why i thought of saver haha.

I think I've decided on getting a 2012 Mitsubishi Lancer SE. Was thinking of getting the Elantra, Civic, or Mazda 3 as well lol.

I'm ok in negotiating, I think I'd bring my mom along for serious negotiations though lol. I've worked in sales for a few months so I understand how they work.

Jgresch · 12-08-2011, 10:41 PM

The mark up in a Lancer was either $1400 or $2800 having a tough time remembering... shit...
Im pretty sure the GTS was $2800 and the SE was like $2500ish... then they usually have the $1000 cash back or gift card.

If you come in though and say, yo I know you're making X amount of $ so I want to pay this much, it won't fly and they will treat you like shit.
A. Don't lowball, just make things worse.
B. Make them aware you were maybe browsing another store but they were treating you bad or you think the price could have been better. You basically need an out that they will fight for so you don't take.

Ex. Have your mom say she prefers the Mazda 3 or something, and how its cheaper etc. As long as they think that there is something or somewhere else to turn if they don't work out for you.

Take into account all the fees. Doc fee and security if they have it. DOn't waste your time asking for them to remove the DOC, 95% of dealers won't and it will just piss them off. Just add it all up and negotiate from there. Security fee is usually optional though and if they have it, you shoudl be able to get rid of it. Also rememeber there is A/C and tire tax.

Honestly in my experience, if someone is being nice, and understanding to me I'm more likely to fight with my manager for their business as opposed to some pushy asshole thinking that he know's everything.
That being said though, be firm with what you say, and if you make an offer on the car that you think is fair, and they accept, don't mess around and try to make a lower offer. Sometimes even if they're barely making anything, they will just say ok to save the hassle hoping you won't think that it was too easy.

I'm sure I'll think of more....

Jgresch · 12-08-2011, 10:43 PM

Also if you are between say $500 difference, and the manager hasn't come out to talk with you yet, sort of let up and pretend like you're about to leave. Once the manager comes to talk before you go, theres a better chance he'll come down a bit more. But be careful, if he doesn't think your serious or wasting his time they will let you walk.

ForbiddenX · 12-09-2011, 12:01 PM

Thanks for the tips man I'll definitely keep those in mine when negotiating

Jgresch · 12-09-2011, 01:09 PM

Wait I was wrong, the Mark up in the DE is $1400 and it goes up to about 1800 for gts lol sorry had it backwards
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68style · 12-09-2011, 01:31 PM

^
Shit like this is exactly why I will never, ever buy a new car again... they make it such a horrible fucking experience nowadays you just feel ruined before you've even picked the damn thing up.

Jgresch · 12-09-2011, 01:45 PM

what do you mean? the experience of buying a car from a dealership?

ForbiddenX · 12-09-2011, 08:42 PM

Should I ignore he $1000 Mastercard bonus when negotiating? Since thats a manufacturers incentive and not something from the dealership.

Cause right now it's the $1000 mastercard + $500 grad rebate. So that's $1500 in rebates without really having to touch the price of the car. I was hoping to get $1000 off + the $1000 mastercard...

I'm going to try again tomorrow and hoping my mom will help with the persuasion now.

lowside67 · 12-09-2011, 09:11 PM

I always try to think of things in terms of "what does this money mean to me, and what does it mean to them?" I am definitely a hard negotiator when it comes to buying things, but at a point, you need to figure out what's worth your time and energy and what isn't. For example...

If you are spending $25,000 on a car and there is $2000 profit in it for the dealership (unlikely), then a $1000 discount means that you are paying 4% less for the car, but the dealership is making 50% less profit. It is still $1000 either way, but it represents a much smaller portion of your outlay than the dealership's profit.

I dont work in a new car store, but from what I understand, manufacturer's rebates do not reduce the dealer's margins. Therefore you should (in theory) be able to make the same offer and have it accepted whether there is a $1000 MC promotion in place or not.

If you make a fair and reasonable offer and don't piss me off in the process, I will always work hard to make a deal for you, I am confident that is the case across the industry. In the end though, if it's only a small amount of money that you are apart, just make the deal. It really is a very small contributor to the cheque you write or your monthly payment, but makes a big difference to the salesperson, who generally can make as little as $150 selling you a cheap car.

Mark

Jgresch · 12-09-2011, 09:38 PM

Well said.

And about MasterCard thing or whatever the deal is. Manufacture will cover all of that. There are some
promos that the dealer has to kick in part of it though. But in this case just ignre that.

Lowside what dealer you work at again?
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Rich Sandor · 12-10-2011, 08:17 AM

Generally, manufacturer rebates have nothing to do with dealer profit. Our markup stays the same no matter what Ford decides to give away on a car.

I think lowside made a really good point. If you are buying a $25,000 car, which we have about $1500-1800 markup on, on average, us giving another $1000 off isn't much to you, but it's more than 1/2 our profit on that vehicle. That's not to say it won't happen, but it depends on the deal.

Another important factor is availability. No dealer is going to discount a popular unit. Our Explorers and Edges and EcoBoosts are selling at MSRP or close to, and we have almost no inventory left. Fusions, Rangers and non-ecoboost F150s are a dime a dozen right now, and we'll sell them for close to invoice to get numbers. It's all supply an demand.

Lastly, If you come in and start lowballing right away, and most salespeople's first thoughts would be, great, here is a guy who is going to jerk me around for hours and I'm going to make NO money out of him. You can imagine the salesperson is not going to invest a lot of time or positive energy into someone like that. On the other hand, I'm more eager to help someone get a good deal if we build any level of relationship in the 15-50minutes they spend with me.

On the "Car cost Canada" issue, it's totally up to you. If you really want to know how much it costs the dealer and how much they are making or aren't making, go for it. Just don't think that because you have the invoice, that a dealer is going to sell to you at or near invoice. Again, it depends on the demand and supply of the actual car and if the dealer feels like giving you a deal.

Jgresch · 12-10-2011, 12:03 PM

Also depends what time of the month you go in. December is usually slow in general so we would try and crank more units out the door by lowering prices or giving in to negotiating. Also near the end of the month we woudl do the same to beef up our units sold.

Rich Sandor · 12-10-2011, 05:19 PM

Jgresch I dunno about you but I think most dealers are desperate to get deals at ANY TIME of the month these days. Don't wait until the end of the month to get a better deal, it just winds up being a gong show rush trying to squeeze in your delivery for the last day of the month and we all know that things are more likely to get missed or messed up when someone is rushing.

The end of month deals are true to some extent, BUT I've seen lots of deals in our log book that show low gross in the 1st half of the month. You can get good deals at ANY time if you play your cards right.

Plus, if you are looking at a 2011, the supply will be dwindling as everyone is well into making 2012s now, so if you are picky, you might have to sacrifice color or options to get that lower price.

ForbiddenX · 12-10-2011, 06:49 PM

Thanks a lot guys for your responses. I'll definitely keep that in mind when making the deal. 50% of their profit gone is definitely a lot.

I've always gone into the dealership seeing what they can offer me. I haven't actually gone and straight up asked for a price I wanted. Most of the time they shed light to all the rebates available which already make it a pretty decent deal. I haven't made a solid offer yet since I've just been shopping around. Since the Lancer is the car that I want now, I've gone back with the intent of purchasing it and trying to work out a better price.

The deals on the 2011s are pretty good. The 0% financing for 84 months or a ~$3000 cash rebate for Mazda and an iPad 2 + the $500 grad rebate was a really nice deal but I didn't really like it too much. Wanted an MT but they don't have it in either the Mazda 3 Sedan or the Sport.

If a dealership says they don't have the car available, will they still be able to order it? I wanted to get a 2012 Lancer SE MT in White or Black but they told me only the ones with the Spoiler/Sun (+$1500) are available and those are the only ones they'd be able to get or go for a color that I didn't like which they did have :S.

k3mps · 12-10-2011, 07:14 PM

Hey I was looking at the 2011 Mazdas as well.
When I went to Destination Mazda (used to be Wolfe) about a 4 days ago, they said they had 1 more MT sedan.
Not 100% sure if they still have one

Edit: I THINK Metrotown Mazda had an MT as well..not 100% on that one

fa1civic · 12-11-2011, 03:48 PM

If you are really certain of what make and model of the car with the options you want I suggest you use deal finder. Although it will run you about $160, it is legit and they will try to give you the best possible price. They deal with fleet wholesalers so they will definately get you a good price. You save time and money because they will look for the vehicle for you and call you up when they have the availability. On top of that there is dealer incentives for the old 2011 which they will add on top. We recently bought a 2011 pathfinder using deal finder and they knocked off $7000 off msrp with nissan dealership and additional $3000 from deal finder.

NEW CAR - WHY PAY RETAIL? - CANADA

ForbiddenX · 12-11-2011, 08:39 PM

Thanks again everyone for your advice and insight to buying a new car.

So today, I went with my mom to take a look at everything again and to see if we could get a better deal. We talked to the same salesperson again and we started to get into numbers to see what else they could do for us. He let us know he was on a per unit commission and it wasn't a margin type of commission. Did a little back and forth between the sales manager and us until eventually the sales manager came over to start talking to us.

Turns out the sales manager and my mom had a lot of mutual friends growing up as a kid but they never knew each other. So I sat there for a while just listening to them talk and asking each other about who they knew and how they knew a lot of different people. His friend was also my dad's best friend growing up lol.

He broke down the price and showed us exactly what he could and couldn't do for us. We settled with getting an extra $200 off and the rubber floor mats.

All in all the price was about 25k OTD. I got the 2012 Lancer SE MT in Wicked White with a Sunroof and Spoiler (really wanted white and didn't want to wait until feb/march for the next batch of cars).

Overall it was a fairly good experience, didn't really feel any pressure from the sales associate or the sales manager when putting the deal through.

suzuka84 · 12-11-2011, 09:08 PM

seems to me you hate negotiating at the dealers. You can do the same thing as one of my colleagues - email them with an offer to buy stating your out the door price then wait for their response.

It makes the transaction go a lot quicker as you don't have to spend time building a relationship.

ForbiddenX · 12-12-2011, 09:31 PM

Negotiating wasn't that bad. I just wanted to see how much I had to work with. Sometimes building relationships is worth it as per what happend when the sales manager and my mom started talking.

Anyways I picked up the car today!!!

What to do first.... lol