REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

m1ndeater · 02-09-2012, 01:45 PM

Hi. I am thinking of going to BCIT/VCC for either Collision Repair or Finishing and I found a post from 2008 at revscene claiming VCC was better (http://www.revscene.net/forums/51716...-autobody.html) but obviously this info is a bit out dated. I figure the advice here is more reliable than what I read on BCIT and VCC's websites.

Have any of you tried any of the programs or work in these industries? Would you consider giving me some advice on whether I should go with collision repair or refinishing, and which school has a more respected program?

I appreciate your help, this is a big decision for me.

Supafly · 02-09-2012, 01:58 PM

have you even tried going to both faculties and check out their facilities and talking to the instructors???....that might be a good start.

TurboFC3S · 02-09-2012, 02:01 PM

I went to VCC and took the refinishing course... it was awesome, instructors were great and the price for the course was very affordable (2800 bucks i think) learned alot. The school helps you get hired after you finish the course if you cant find work.

m1ndeater · 02-09-2012, 02:11 PM

@supafly yea I am heading to the info sessions this month.

@TurboFC3S Are you still working as a refinisher?

smarv · 02-09-2012, 04:56 PM

I suggest vcc, my friend was telling me that bcit is way more money and vcc's shop is better. He had to make the same decision not to long ago.

NSX · 02-09-2012, 05:17 PM

Went to both. Back in the day, at BCIT, you get a certificate for auto body. Which gets you like...nowhere. Try to walk into a shop and say , "i got a cert from BCIT." and get a job....

Autobody / refinishing is one of those trades where you don't even need much schooling to make money. So you have to ask yourself, what is your end game? Money? Or the trade certification. Of course having both is best. Shops will know if your work is good, or shit right away. Most of the old guys in the shops never really went to school, but makes a lot of money, and are good at what they do, and don't have a "legit" trade certification. A lot of ppl have apprentice and trade certifications issued by BC (red seal), and their work sucks balls. Shop owners dont care much for credentials, just that they can trust you, and you do things fast, nice, and make them money with little "re-dos."

2 things:
School = knowing how to do things the RIGHT way, and knowing the RIGHT answers for the provincial test. Don't bring this knowledge into the shop. They will laugh at you.

Shop hours = learning all the shortcuts and how the real trade does things. Find a journeyman that has been in the trade for a long time and steal all his knowledge. Time is money. If you do things the way you learned in school, you will never make money in flat rate, or straight time for that matter.

Nvasion · 02-09-2012, 05:23 PM

VCC> BCIT.

i personally went to vcc.

only problem is that they kept saying lots of shops were hiring and needed techs or apprentice. after i was done the 8 month program i applied to a few shops and noone would hire as an apprentice. all the shops wanted me to be a detailer for a year before they sign me up as an apprentice.

i am now parts manager at a bodyshop because once i actually saw the trade at the shop it made me rethink working in body. you gotta think to yourself.. do you really want to be on your knees or on your back working all day? do you want to be sanding body filler or hitting metal all day? do you want to breathe in chemicals all day long?my decision was no.

im not sure what you think a bodyman actually makes when it comes down to flat rate but its not very much....

VCC was a great learning experience but i wouldnt suggest anyone to be a bodyman unless it really stands out to them.

NSX · 02-09-2012, 05:24 PM

In terms of refinishing or repair, you have to ask yourself

1. Do you like to bang on things with hammers? Sensitive hands that can feel for very inconspicuous bumps? like sanding bondo, fiberglass? taking apart things, putting them back together? good at math? You have to know suspension, mechanics, electronics etc. In the grand scheme of things, Repair is a lot harder

2. Refinishing - I went with this because i like to see the finished product. I was just drawn this much more. A lot of checmials to deal with, breath in, primer, paint, isocyanates, waxing, detailing, polishing etc...

Phil@rise · 02-09-2012, 05:24 PM

Go apply at craftsman or any of the larger chains as a detailer and work your way up no need for school. Even with schooling thats the position you'll start in.

RiceIntegraRS · 02-09-2012, 05:47 PM

@NSX - Almost everything u said was 100% true. But how u said bringing your school knowledge to work will get u laughed at was kinda worded wrong. School knowledge has helped me out in understanding how things work and how things can go wrong.

If your asking which is better BCIT or VCC, VCC is better plus alot cheaper. And from wat i remember, the whole course is alot shorter.

IMO like NSX and Phil have said, goto a shop and try and learn from someone else. Thats wat im currently doing with the guy below me. He wanted to goto school and learn refinishing, but i told him i would teach him everything i know, while he still gets paid to learn aswell.

With the big chain shops, ive heard that u would be moved up really slowly opposed to the smaller shops. My current prepper took 1.5 years to go from detailer to prepper.

Ludepower · 02-09-2012, 06:37 PM

VCC gets my vote. Both are good. You do your learning through your apprenticeship anyways. Choose whatever more convenient for you.

As for bodyman vs painter. Definitely choose bodyman. Their wages are better because the repair hours are a lot more forgiving than painters who have a set time limit on jobs. Problem with bodymans...you gotta be really good to make the cut. It's a trade...dont go in thinking you can be half-ass.

TurboFC3S · 02-09-2012, 08:37 PM

@ OP

No im not working in the trade any more, found a different trade, although id rather be doing bodywork but the one im in now pays too good to leave and its red seal trade. Want to get my journeyman ticket in it , make enough money to pay off a house then see what i want to do.

My advice is take the course, its much easier to get hired when your a certified tech and have your red ticket or apprenticeship. If you get hired as a helper or detailer it may take a very long time to move up to doing bodywork but you never know..

Also dont worry about bad shit you might inhale , its not that bad and you'll learn about it in school, just be smart and always wear your mask (with chemical filters when mixing paint) and a good dust mask when sanding (3M makes one with a little respirator box in the middle of it, wicked masks they dont heat up and are not super sweaty / uncomfy like the normal ones) Luckily for me my work supplies ALL my safety gear...but then again the shit i can potentially inhale at work is 100x worse than bodywork stuff lol, your heath & lungs are priceless though so dont cheap out or not wear your mask.

all in all The bodywork trade is pretty sweet in my opinion, and can be very rewarding paywise if your good at it... I enjoyed my short time doing it @ Preston GM Collision center in langley (Refinisher) Got my new job and on the side been doing cash jobs for friends and myself since

m1ndeater · 02-10-2012, 10:24 AM

Big ups to all of you. I didn't respect so many detailed replies. This info is really invaluable to me so THANK YOU.

I am going to think it over for a few days and see what the info sessions show me. I'll post an update when I decide.

VR6GTI · 02-10-2012, 10:26 AM

Before you even sign up for school i suggest going to a shop and working there for at least 6 months and see if this type of work is something you want to do for the rest of your life. If you have no attention to detail don't even bother. This trade has really gone in the shitter, any credible shop use to have 1-5 months of backlog work. Now alot of shops are lucky to have 1-2 weeks of work. ICBC has been writing off alot of work that use to be fixed and vehicles are cheaper and not worth as much.

m1ndeater · 02-10-2012, 10:41 AM

Man this career planning stuff is so iffy. I wish I knew what I wanted to do since kindergarden and just followed that path heh.

lowda9 · 02-10-2012, 10:52 AM

Go to BCIT, the instructors will be more fair and more legit for sure. I took the course at VCC passed all the written tests with A's and B's and passed the governement exam at the end of the course. with a 86%. They require you to pass a governement exam now in your pre app in order to continue in this trade as an apprentice.

I finished the course thinking I did great but a few months passed and I kept in touch with some of the guys and they received their certificate for the program but I never did. I contacted the school and they said I didn't pass. I couldn't beleive it, no offense to the guys I took the course with, but a lot of them barely spoke english and they failed pretty much half the tests.

I went and talked to my instructor to see what the heck was going on and he said that I was good at the written portion but I sucked ass at the hands on. He told me to go find another trade. I was like we all weren't good at it, we all had to learn it at 1 point. He told me that there are some guys that are just talented and just know what to do. He used golf as an example and said there are some guys that just pick up the golf club and are amazing at golf. I told him that he was comparing me to a prodigy and that isn't fair, and then he told me to f*ck off.

I don't know what this guy had against me but he was a real asshole. I'd choose BCIT if you don't want to run into real assholes as your instructors.

TurboFC3S · 02-10-2012, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VR6GTI

Before you even sign up for school i suggest going to a shop and working there for at least 6 months and see if this type of work is something you want to do for the rest of your life. If you have no attention to detail don't even bother. This trade has really gone in the shitter, any credible shop use to have 1-5 months of backlog work. Now alot of shops are lucky to have 1-2 weeks of work. ICBC has been writing off alot of work that use to be fixed and vehicles are cheaper and not worth as much.

This is all very true.. for 6 months applying at bodyshops everytime i dropped off a resume every single bodyshop said they are slow and laying off people not hiring, and so happened to me once i did get hired, sucked!

Attention to detail is very important too. I took refinishing because i love painting and seeing the beautiful finished product , bodywork can be lots of fun too if you like grinding, welding and wiring

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowda9

Go to BCIT, the instructors will be more fair and more legit for sure. I took the course at VCC passed all the written tests with A's and B's and passed the governement exam at the end of the course. with a 86%. They require you to pass a governement exam now in your pre app in order to continue in this trade as an apprentice.

I finished the course thinking I did great but a few months passed and I kept in touch with some of the guys and they received their certificate for the program but I never did. I contacted the school and they said I didn't pass. I couldn't beleive it, no offense to the guys I took the course with, but a lot of them barely spoke english and they failed pretty much half the tests.

I went and talked to my instructor to see what the heck was going on and he said that I was good at the written portion but I sucked ass at the hands on. He told me to go find another trade. I was like we all weren't good at it, we all had to learn it at 1 point. He told me that there are some guys that are just talented and just know what to do. He used golf as an example and said there are some guys that just pick up the golf club and are amazing at golf. I told him that he was comparing me to a prodigy and that isn't fair, and then he told me to f*ck off.

I don't know what this guy had against me but he was a real asshole. I'd choose BCIT if you don't want to run into real assholes as your instructors.

Wow.. who was your instructor ? I had Dave with the beard, he was hilarious. And Ian for quite a bit, he was more strict / a asshole though... I could see him saying that since he was a prick to me, but i always stood my ground and didnt let him talk me down. You would seriously have to suck ass or be a slacker / miss tons of shop time not to pass the hands on section, and quite sure they would let you know if your failing it... like you said even the fobs in my class passed that lol

lowda9 · 02-10-2012, 01:09 PM

I had Tom, Doreen, Ian, and ended with Dennis. I liked Tom and Doreen. Tom was an asshole but thats just his humor and at least he's kidding. Tom was a genuinely nice guy. I did really well when we had Doreen to the point that she had me tutor this guy in my class and I was getting paid by the school. Ian and Dennis are assholes. I wished that the program would had stick to just 1 instructor rather I had 4 instructors over the course. In my case it didn't even matter what Tom, Doreen, or Ian thought of me. Dennis didn't like me and that was that.

TurboFC3S · 02-10-2012, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowda9

I had Tom, Doreen, Ian, and ended with Dennis. I liked Tom and Doreen. Tom was an asshole but thats just his humor and at least he's kidding. Tom was a genuinely nice guy. I did really well when we had Doreen to the point that she had me tutor this guy in my class and I was getting paid by the school. Ian and Dennis are assholes. I wished that the program would had stick to just 1 instructor rather I had 4 instructors over the course. In my case it didn't even matter what Tom, Doreen, or Ian thought of me. Dennis didn't like me and that was that.

never had to deal with dennis but he seemed like a prick seeing how he talked to people on the bodywork side, Agreed on tom hahaha one guy in my class got in a argument with him because he took him too seriously, And yup 100% Agree on what you said about diff instructors... apparently the automotive tech side was the worst for that.

fliptuner · 02-10-2012, 08:42 PM

Is Dennis a fat white guy, short hair (was brown when I went there 15 years ago), tries to be funny by being really condscending and acts like he's the boss? Or is it the guy who always talks about his sailboat?

VR6GTI · 02-10-2012, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowda9

Go to BCIT, the instructors will be more fair and more legit for sure. I took the course at VCC passed all the written tests with A's and B's and passed the governement exam at the end of the course. with a 86%. They require you to pass a governement exam now in your pre app in order to continue in this trade as an apprentice.

I finished the course thinking I did great but a few months passed and I kept in touch with some of the guys and they received their certificate for the program but I never did. I contacted the school and they said I didn't pass. I couldn't beleive it, no offense to the guys I took the course with, but a lot of them barely spoke english and they failed pretty much half the tests.

I went and talked to my instructor to see what the heck was going on and he said that I was good at the written portion but I sucked ass at the hands on. He told me to go find another trade. I was like we all weren't good at it, we all had to learn it at 1 point. He told me that there are some guys that are just talented and just know what to do. He used golf as an example and said there are some guys that just pick up the golf club and are amazing at golf. I told him that he was comparing me to a prodigy and that isn't fair, and then he told me to f*ck off.

I don't know what this guy had against me but he was a real asshole. I'd choose BCIT if you don't want to run into real assholes as your instructors.

Im not trying to be mean at all, but he might have done you a huge favor, if you cant do the hands on inclass you will really struggle with it at a shop.
Not saying that you might eventually learn it. But this trade is 90% hands on 10% reading and putting it into words. What he said might be harsh to you but maybe he was just trying to help.

lowda9 · 02-11-2012, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VR6GTI

Im not trying to be mean at all, but he might have done you a huge favor, if you cant do the hands on inclass you will really struggle with it at a shop.
Not saying that you might eventually learn it. But this trade is 90% hands on 10% reading and putting it into words. What he said might be harsh to you but maybe he was just trying to help.

Thats what he wants me to think, that hes doing me a favor. I was certainly able to do hands on. Dennis hated me so much he said that my welding was worst than the retarded guy in my class. Yes there was a retarded guy in my class and he tried to make me feel so bad about myself by saying his welding was better than mine, like thats even possible. Before we switched to Dennis, Tom gave me an A in welding.

lowda9 · 02-11-2012, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fliptuner

Is Dennis a fat white guy, short hair (was brown when I went there 15 years ago), tries to be funny by being really condscending and acts like he's the boss? Or is it the guy who always talks about his sailboat?

lol the fat white guy is probably tom.

fliptuner · 02-11-2012, 12:30 PM

I took the auto tech program there a long time ago. Tom was there and he was pretty cool. The guys I'm asking about worked on my side but could've easily floated over to the bodyshop.

I actually liked my course a lot - structure, teachers, etc.. My only annoyance was the other students that weren't really into the trade and slowed things down for me but it was a school so I couldn't really complain about it.

Like TurboFC3S, I'm not in the trade any longer. After 4 years of working in the shop environment, I decided it wasn't something I wanted to do for xx years. I still enjoy working on cars, just not as a fulltime job. I'm also in a different trade that pays well and suits me a lot better. I have very few tickets in it but a lot of experience. All my clients care about is that I do my job correctly and in a timely manner. They don't care about paperwork, they care about a job well done. Unlike the automotive field, often times my clients are right there, watching as I work. I think it's fair to say the quality of your work takes precedent over where you went to school and how much training you have.

m1ndeater · 02-13-2012, 10:39 PM

What trade are you in now Fliptuner?