Traffic Cameras Result In 500% Spike In Richmond Offences

[sebberry]

Traffic Cameras Result In 500% Spike In Richmond Offences


An increase in the number of traffic surveillance cameras at intersections has resulted in a 506-per-cent increase in the number of offences in Richmond, B.C., in 2011.

Permanent cameras have now been installed at more than 140 intersections across B.C., where there used to be just 30 cameras rotating through 120 locations.

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[Sky_High]

If only you take half a minute to lurk through Revscene.net/forums instead of posting 100% solely in the Police Forum......

http://www.revscene.net/forums/66472...0-percent.html

[sho_bc]

Yet another case of bad reporting and sebberry jumping all over it like its the gospel. The new cameras didn't cause an increase, they just captured the bad driving that was already there.

[sebberry]

You bring up a good point. I know they didn't cause an increase in violations, but if cameras are as effective as they say they are, why no decrease in violations?

[Bainne]

Originally Posted by sho_bc

Yet another case of bad reporting and sebberry jumping all over it like its the gospel. The new cameras didn't cause an increase, they just captured the bad driving that was already there.

Shouldn't we then be installing red light, photo radar, what ever else a camera can catch cameras every couple of KM on the roadway then to catch the bad driving that exists everywhere?

It isn't breaking news that people disobey traffic rules - what is of note, is whether the punishments and law enforcement methods are actually deterrents and whether associated agencies are using these punishments to their full potential as a PART of complete a deterrent platform.

I am all for the concept of red light cameras, unlike speeding, running a red and poor behavior at interactions isn't generally an "oopsie, a bit to hard on the throttle" moment. There is often a whole lead up of poor driving behavior that results in running a red. Giving someone a ticket won't solve poor driving behavior/habits.

I liked the semi-PR campaign they did last year announcing that all the housings that now have cameras in them, was a good way to generate awareness. But that was mostly the media's doing and that's where it stopped aside from their follow up articles like this. I don't recall a major ICBC and LE push where they announced all of the new locations, placed better, clear and obvious signage, began a targeted awareness campaign, and developed a public education system.

For instance, instead of saying "Just don't run reds and you won't get a ticket" maybe a public blitz to help educate drivers on how to avoid being put in a situation where they blow the light.

1) Always leave room 2 seconds between you and the car in front
2) Go the speed limit approaching a light
3) Yellow means stop too
etc etc. lots of potential here.
Instead all I hear is ICBC and their "Vicky chick on demystify car insurance" propaganda for a company that is a monopoly. There's no need to sell me on ICBC insurance, I was sold the day I bought a car.

Another idea is make the photo camera boxes bigger, toss some reflective markings on the back and add some signage right at the intersection. Right now we only have have a black and white sign at some intersections, sometimes up to 200 yards before the intersection and pole. Useless.

Compare these two and tell me which one you would honestly be paying more attention to:
BC: https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/im...K1rBWlEnxYQxZw
Judging by the line of cars in the BC example, that sign isn't even remotely close to an intersection.

Elsewhere: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...field-ohio.jpg


The province, city and police need to focus on what the real purpose of red light cameras are; public safety. Invest in that side of it, through awareness and prevention. Instead, they just throw the cliche "we are helping to save lives" any time they are questioned about motive. The public has given you their money to help in the public interest of reducing crashes, injuries and fatalities. We've given you the tools, the money and the ability to punish offenders, now help the public and use our money to make the streets safer not just revenue generators

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by sebberry

You bring up a good point. I know they didn't cause an increase in violations, but if cameras are as effective as they say they are, why no decrease in violations?

Most likely because a change in a habitual action takes quite awhile; if one completely overhauled the driving legislation and speed limits as you sometimes advocate, we couldn't expect people's driving to change overnight, and it is entirely possible we would see an increase in incidences and fatalities as we saw people who complied with the new laws/speed limits "conflicted" with those who didn't at the same pace.

[zulutango]

[QUOTE=sebberry;7853132]You bring up a good point. I know they didn't cause an increase in violations, but if cameras are as effective as they say they are, why no decrease in violations?[/QUOTE]


This IS Richmond isn't it?

[CRS]

Originally Posted by sebberry

You bring up a good point. I know they didn't cause an increase in violations, but if cameras are as effective as they say they are, why no decrease in violations?

An increase in cameras will cause an increase in tickets being issued.

It isn't difficult to fathom that these cameras are strategically placed where drivers run the most red lights. As a result of having more cameras at these intersections, there will obviously be more tickets issued.

Had there been a static number of cameras from the previous year, then you would have a point. But at the moment, you have none.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by CRS

It isn't difficult to fathom that these cameras are strategically placed where drivers run the most red lights. As a result of having more cameras at these intersections, there will obviously be more tickets issued.

Not hard to fathom at all, especially if you want a healthy revenue stream from them.

If you want to stop the dangerous activity from taking place, there either needs to be different traffic engineering solutions put into place (such as yellow light timing - did ICBC ever study the effects of yellow light timing adjustments before implementing the cameras?) or better education/testing practices or a combination of all three.

[CRS]

I completely agree with better education and testing practices.

The laws regarding getting a license should be substantially more difficult than it is right now. At the moment, our driver's exam is a completely joke. I remember back in highschool that almost every girl had their license despite none of them being able to even parallel park.

[zulutango]

Originally Posted by sebberry

Not hard to fathom at all, especially if you want a healthy revenue stream from them.

If you want to stop the dangerous activity from taking place, there either needs to be different traffic engineering solutions put into place (such as yellow light timing - did ICBC ever study the effects of yellow light timing adjustments before implementing the cameras?) or better education/testing practices or a combination of all three.

I suggested that a masive steel barrier that sprung upwards from the pavement when the light turned red....or railroad crossing type barriers that dropped down but they said that they wanted the money, not to stop crashes.
I also guessed that telling people that you had to stop for a red light would be a waste of time as nobody could grasp that concept, should they ever design a promotional campaign to attempt to introduce that as a driving skill.

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by CRS

I remember back in highschool that almost every girl had their license despite none of them being able to even parallel park.

what were they wearing during their test?

[Mr.Ping]

it's Richmond...highest Chinese population density outside of China... coincident ?

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by Mr.Ping

it's Richmond...highest Chinese population density outside of China... coincident ?

The spelling in this post is strong for its content.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by Mr.Ping

it's Richmond...highest Chinese population density outside of China... coincident ?

Originally Posted by Graeme S

The spelling in this post is strong for its content.

I'm sure it's just a coincidence....

[wing_woo]

Maybe give the red light runners a fine for failing to stop at the red and an excessive speeding ticket since the speed limit on a red light is 0. So if they were running the light going 50, then they are 50 over and it's excessive...haha.

[sebberry]

I bet that a LOT of people are getting tickets in the 0.5 second after the light has turned red.

I see a lot of cars getting their picture taken because after the red light turns green and cars start to accelerate, there's inevitably someone getting caught not being able to stop for the change back to amber due to the car behind also accelerating.

You have to remember that the yellow timing is set for a car travelling at 50kph to safely and comfortably come to a stop before entering on a red. If you and the car behind you are in the process of accelerating up to 50kph and the green changes to amber, you spend a longer period of time approaching, crossing and leaving the sensor loop - this increases your chance of leaving the loop after the amber has changed to red.

[geeknerd]

hmmm Richmond.... sounds like a business opportunity . GPS' in korea have all camera locations saved so it warns the driver if you are going towards one.

majority of people in korea have gps while in vancouver i found it less useful.

[Soundy]

The cameras are big white boxes on top of an 18' pole, visible from half a block away in almost any weather. If that doesn't give you enough warning, I don't know how a GPS will do any better. If you can't see the camera well in advance, you aren't paying very good attention to the road ahead, and probably deserve a ticket.

[geeknerd]

the gps will tell u that u are approaching a cam 500meters ahead.... how can that not 'do any better'... the point i was trying ot make is that it doesnt matter if those people deserve it or not, this item could be a 'hit' . especially since you say that its so obvious but yet people are getting caught meaning they NEED items like this since they can not do it themselves.

but as i mentioned before, there isnt a whole lot of cameras in vancouver compared to korea so i dont know how well they would sell....

[Bahhbeehhaaaa]

when statistics jump that high, there is always a reason behind it.

[sebberry]

I recently had an email conversation with ICBC where tey comfirmed that they did NOT perform any sort o light timing evaluation prior to the installation of the red light camera at a local intersection.

We know proper light timing will reduce violations and collisions, so why not implement it? Oh, sorry - more profitable to stick an automated ticketing machine up and catch violators after they've plowed into the side of another car than to engineer solutions that prevent the violations in the first place.

[Graeme S]

Typically when people get red light cameras, they say that the Yellow wasn't long enough. When asked what would have happened had the yellow been longer, typically you'll hear some variation of "I would have been through and gone!"

This, unfortunately, is the common attitude: "Yellow is green, but it's for when a red is almost there." If you're going to claim that light timing should be changed, why not demand higher education re: light laws and stopping distances?


Sadly, each is as likely to change as the other.

[sebberry]

The problem with fixed length yellow lights is that they don't account for conditions that affect your ability to stop for them. Therefore they need to be long enough to safely allow someone to come to a stop in the rain with a tailgater.

Speed limit defenders will go on about how the limits must cater to "the lowest common denominator". Well, same should go for yellow lights.

You can't dispute the fact that properly timed lights reduce violations and collisions. When one sets up control devices, they must take into account how humans will react to them. When the lights are configured according to how people respond to them, violations and collisions drop.

[zulutango]

Here is a solution to the yellow light problem. Remove the yellow lights and replace them with red lights only. Now adjust the delay to the operation of the green lights at the intersecting streets to maybe 10 seconds. That way nobody runs a yellow and nobody has to decide if they are going to be able to stop safely before the crosswalk. All the wriggle room is gone and it is safer?.