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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stewie
would I freak out? yeah, who wouldn't...at least id turn around every few steps and if I noticed hes still following me id stop and ask him wtf he wants from a distance. if no reply, then fuck him, ill either turn around and run, or ill stay there and potentially get stabbed or beat up..
there were words exchanged supposedly so Trayvon probably did go "hey why you following me?"
Quote:
middle of the night, I can see at least 100 yards...
it was approximately 7:09-7:15pm when the incident occurred hardly the middle of the night and that's 30mins after sunset for Feb 26th 2012 in Florida... it's still bright out
there were words exchanged supposedly so Trayvon probably did go "hey why you following me?"
it was approximately 7:09-7:15pm when the incident occurred hardly the middle of the night and that's 30mins after sunset for Feb 26th 2012 in Florida... it's still bright out
And it was probably Treyvons attitude that escalated things. I really can't see Zimmerman confronting him from a distance and exchanging words and then escalating into a fight. The kid probably acted like any other wanna be g-thug at that age and told him to get lost/fuck off/ or some stupid ass ghetto slang response, and it but him in the ass.
30 min after sunset, while its raining out. So it's darker out. Not to mention the 911 dispatcher told Zimmerman to watch the person after he stated that Treyvon was running.
I'm not gonna waste time on this, I find him not guilty, you can find him guilty, people will always disagree, so fuck it. Posted via RS Mobile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stewie
And it was probably Treyvons attitude that escalated things. I really can't see Zimmerman confronting him from a distance and exchanging words and then escalating into a fight. The kid probably acted like any other wanna be g-thug at that age and told him to get lost/fuck off/ or some stupid ass ghetto slang response, and it but him in the ass.
quite possibly and Zimmerman can/should still be found guilty of manslaughter in such an encounter (that was my point from the beginning)
quite possibly and Zimmerman can/should still be found guilty of manslaughter in such an encounter (that was my point from the beginning)
Last post I swear meant that it was treyvons attitude and g-thugness that probs started it, I bet the kid turned around acting tough pushed Zimmerman saying shit like "what you want bitch". So, if that's what did happen and the kid made the first push, he's the one who started the fight. At that point Zimmerman was meerly approaching him to get some info, not to gight, but ipon being pushed/punched/kicked he went and took self defense and ended up shooting him during a struggle. Posted via RS Mobile
Last post I swear meant that it was treyvons attitude and g-thugness that probs started it, I bet the kid turned around acting tough pushed Zimmerman saying shit like "what you want bitch". So, if that's what did happen and the kid made the first push, he's the one who started the fight. At that point Zimmerman was meerly approaching him to get some info, not to gight, but ipon being pushed/punched/kicked he went and took self defense and ended up shooting him during a struggle. Posted via RS Mobile
For real? Are you serious? You're pretty clearly showing a preference to Zimmerman here, because what you are saying could easily be reversed. How do you know Zimmerman wasn't the agressor? Listening to the 911 calls, it sounded to be Zimmerman was the one initiating this whole thing.
I'll tell you right now, if someone like you were following me around and harassing me, I would likely respond EXACTLY the same way you are alleging Trayvon did.
This case is not complicated, none of this would have happened if Zimmerman had simply completed his call to the police, and stayed in his vehicle and allowed the police to do their job accordingly.
This is why people claim racism to those who argue on the other side of this discussion, it's pretty friggin clear what the result of this case should have been.
I'll tell you right now, if someone like you were following me around and harassing me, I would likely respond EXACTLY the same way you are alleging Trayvon did.
Then ull get ur ass shot dead. And rightly so. Posted via RS Mobile
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stewie
Last post I swear meant that it was treyvons attitude and g-thugness that probs started it, I bet the kid turned around acting tough pushed Zimmerman saying shit like "what you want bitch". So, if that's what did happen and the kid made the first push, he's the one who started the fight. At that point Zimmerman was meerly approaching him to get some info, not to gight, but ipon being pushed/punched/kicked he went and took self defense and ended up shooting him during a struggle. Posted via RS Mobile
i know what you meant and still in such an encounter Zimmerman can and should have been found guilty for manslaughter as long as someone dies you can be convicted of manslaughter
but the jury spoke -_-
that's why i wouldnt be surprised if there was a federal case brought forth against zimmerman where some real prosecutors can have a crack at him
who knows what really happened and who is to blame. But if Zimmerman never had a gun to begin with it would not have ended this way. That's the actual problem in all of this. And it always is in the States. Idiots with guns. If he never had a gun maybe he would have actually fought off the kid (if he was actually being attacked). Sad a grown man can't fight off a teenager one on one. Posted via RS Mobile
there are plenty of teenagers who could kick the shit out of adults. its not sad that a grown man cant fight off a teenager one on one. the teenager will most likely be far more fit than the grown man.
the fault here in my opinion lies with state prosecutors trying to charge zimmerman with murder rather than manslaughter.
theres a lot of issues with this incident all of them unfortunate. the biggest issue i have is that the state prosecutors should have opted to try zimmerman for manslaughter rather than murder. the burden of proving pre-meditation (malice aforethought) is extremely difficult, especially in a case like this. had the state prosecutor moved for a charge of involuntary manslaughter they would have had zimmerman dead to rights. he would have seen jail time, people would have been happy and those "crying" for justice for trayvon would have gotten what they wanted.
saying that "if it was a black man who killed a white teenager" and suggesting that the black man would have gotten life in prison is ignorant of the facts. the circumstances of the case show that the cards were stacked against the state prosecution in the first place. the real tragedy here is that an incompetant over zealous state prosecutor felt that he could gain some glory by winning a high profile case with high profile stakes rather than having the common sense to charge the man for something that he was ACTUALLY guilty of
charging him for murder 2 in a state with one of the highest issuing of conceal carry weapons permits as well as one of the highest rate of retired armed forces veterans and an extremely strong presence of the NRA was moot. florida is also one of the states with the castle doctrine/defense of habitation statutes and as such, the general public's perception on the use of a firearm to fend off a would be intruder/thief/attacker is high. with involuntary manslaughter, the judge could have instructed the jury that they must make considerations for the criminal negligence. the state prosecutor would only have to have proven that zimmerman acted criminally negligent which resulted in the death of trayvon martin. involuntary manslaughter through criminal negligence requires no burden of proof in regards to malice aforethought or premeditation which was the weakest piece of the puzzle here. they could have tried zimmerman on involuntary manslaughter and he would have wound up in a state prison for up to 15 years.
i'm not particularly well versed in american law but that is my assessment of the situation.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HansonBoy
And remember, back then he wasn't the hodgy podgy Zimmerman, who looks like he wouldn't even hurt a fly:
No. He looked like this.
Spoiler!
When did your looks become admissible in the court of law? He could've looked like strawberry shortcake and it wouldn't make a difference to the case.
Okay, let's assume appearance is a factor. If the fact that Zimmerman looks intimidating is a valid argument, Zimmerman's statement that the boy looked like he 'was up to no good' would be equally admissible in court.
I don't know any of the intricacies or the details of the case, but the level of hypocrisy in that argument is just ridiculous.
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Actually you're appearance affects the Jury I would not be surprised one bit if his lawyers told him to gain weight etc etc
it's a classic tact not gaining weight but coaching clients on how to dress, how to act, etc
But I think Hansons point was how much creepier Zimmerman would have appeared to Trayvon back then (causing him to be more creeped out and perhaps react differently)
Having a minor look over the evidence today, I see that the best witness was alerted to the squirms of a young man and came out right away to investigate the loud bang which she didnt recognize as a gun shot.
Upon seeing the two bodies, she saw the "red and dark pattern" clothing of a man (on top) straddling another on the ground.
This shows Zimmerman was in a power position and not in danger for his life when he shot.
Had Zimmerman even been under him when he shot, there should be blood on his clothes.
On a side note, it was dark that night so I wonder if Zimmerman could have inflicted damage to himself prior to his neighbour taking pictures of his nose and sharp marks to his head. If Martin and Zimmerman at most were struggling for the gun, it still doesnt excuse the stalker (as he not police officer) from bringing a weapon to the confrontation of an unarmed boy.
This main witness reached out multiple times to the police but wasnt contacted for several days.
Martin's girl friend was on the phone when the incident started... police also didnt talk to her for some days.
Zimmerman's father is a judge... I would guess hes paid his dues of incarcerating minorities, innocent or not, for the prison industrial complex which works people for less then $5 for a whole days work... all on behalf of the Zionist occupied USA. So its not surprising that the system looks out for its own and to show other judges in the states that its loyal as long as they keep doing what they're doing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge
Zimmerman's father is a judge...
I had thought this as well, while he is a "magistrate judge" in Virgina such a judge functions as a Justice of the Peace, simply issuing warrants etc he was never qualified nor did he try cases etc
There could be other angles to it too I guess, having the populace be at odds with each other is one way to cut down on protests.
The police investigators that have not been doing their job properly need to be questioned.
One other thing I forgot to say is how difficult it'd be for someone to smash a bald head into the ground and smother that resisting persons nose and mouth without getting DNA under the finger nails.
Martins had no Zimmerman DNA.
edit 2 - one last point, I found it funny how when interviewed, Zimmerman was asked why Martin was supposedly trying to cover his mouth... Zimmerman replied I have no idea... and the interviewer said because you were calling out for help right... its as if he was reminding him of a lie.
_www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaua8aAUpOs ~15:00
If I dont respond to this thread anymore... its because Ive been thread banned.
Don't wanna read you guys going back and forth with personal opinions on what happen.
Based on technicalities, lack of witnesses and proof beyond reasonable doubt...Zimmerman is innocent.
I believe Zimmerman was stronger than Tray...also the aggressor with a firearm and he should be put in jail but my personal opinion has no bearing on the case.
There are rules, laws and technicalities that govern each state. This is where change is needed for a different outcome.
To prove Zimmerman committed manslaughter, they would have to have proven beyond a reasonable doubt either he was:
A) Reckless and/or criminally negligent (Involuntary)
B) Emotionally distraught and/or mentally disturbed (Voluntary)
Option A is out the question, because it was not an accident. Involuntary manslaughter covers situations when there was no intention (ie. Showing someone your gun and it mistakenly fires, killing someone else).
Option B is out of the question because it was not a crime of passion. There was certainly reasonable doubt that George was emotionally distraught or mentally disturbed at the time of the shooting. He seemed quite lucid and aware during all documented evidence of the encounter.
Florida Laws considered - it was either 2nd degree murder, or self defense.
Basically the task was to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt that George was of a 'depraved mind' which basically means corrupt, evil, and/or perverted, in order for a 2nd degree murder charge to stick.
I think this is another good case for why regular people should not be armed with concealed weapons around their neighborhoods.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StylinRed
Actually you're appearance affects the Jury I would not be surprised one bit if his lawyers told him to gain weight etc etc
it's a classic tact not gaining weight but coaching clients on how to dress, how to act, etc
But I think Hansons point was how much creepier Zimmerman would have appeared to Trayvon back then (causing him to be more creeped out and perhaps react differently)
Isnt that the pot calling the kettle black? Trayvon has the right to profile and react based on zimmerman's appearance. But zimmerman cant profile trayvon because he is black? Posted via RS Mobile
When did your looks become admissible in the court of law? He could've looked like strawberry shortcake and it wouldn't make a difference to the case.
Okay, let's assume appearance is a factor. If the fact that Zimmerman looks intimidating is a valid argument, Zimmerman's statement that the boy looked like he 'was up to no good' would be equally admissible in court.
I don't know any of the intricacies or the details of the case, but the level of hypocrisy in that argument is just ridiculous.
He's only pointing it out because the looks of Trayvon were apparently admissible in Zimmermans court of law where he is the judge, jury and executioner. Also, he wanted to make a point, that some 17 year old black "man" thats 140 lbs probably would feel pretty threatened if they saw him following them. It doesn't seem like you understood the context of the post at all.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfever
Westopher is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsy82
seems like you got a dick up your ass well..get that checked
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkwax
Well.. I’d hate to be the first to say it, but Westopher is correct.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westopher
He's only pointing it out because the looks of Trayvon were apparently admissible in Zimmermans court of law where he is the judge, jury and executioner. Also, he wanted to make a point, that some 17 year old black "man" thats 140 lbs probably would feel pretty threatened if they saw him following them. It doesn't seem like you understood the context of the post at all.
But that is not relevant to the case as his excuse was not admissible in court. The possibility of Trayvon being intimidated by Zimmerman's appearance would not just justify any actions he may have taken. Intimidated by Zimmerman's actions is arguable, but not by appearance.
But that is not relevant to the case as his excuse was not admissible in court. The possibility of Trayvon being intimidated by Zimmerman's appearance would not just justify any actions he may have taken. Intimidated by Zimmerman's actions is arguable, but not by appearance.
You're just a racist! BLATANT RACISM!
Quote:
Isnt that the pot calling the kettle black? Trayvon has the right to profile and react based on zimmerman's appearance. But zimmerman cant profile trayvon because he is black?
It's not racism when it's against whites!
Becareful, your racism is showing.
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meant that it was treyvons attitude and g-thugness that probs started it, I bet the kid turned around acting tough pushed Zimmerman saying shit like "what you want bitch". So, if that's what did happen and the kid made the first push, he's the one who started the fight. At that point Zimmerman was meerly approaching him to get some info, not to gight, but ipon being pushed/punched/kicked he went and took self defense and ended up shooting him during a struggle.
