REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

bainstang · 06-12-2012, 11:19 AM

Hey guys, heres the story:

I was driving down from Whistler on the Sea to Sky around 12:00am, it was really dark. On the way home I lost control of the car. Luckily no one got hurt.

The speed limit was 80 where I lost control and I was doing that speed. It's never happened to me before, but out of no where everything got dark, I couldn't see past the headlights (which wasn't very far), I hear this is common when driving in the mountains with shadows and stuff.

I guess i freaked out, slammed the breaks and watched the yellow lines turn left so I turned left with them. I also turned far left because I didn't want to go over the cliff!

The car stopped about 5 feet from the rock wall luckily and it got stuck on this little ditch in-between the wall and the road. The tow truck got the car out fine and just before we were about to leave, the constable that arrived at the scene gave me a ticket for "Failing to Keep Right".

I wanted to dispute this ticket, as I don't think its fair. If I hadn't turned left I could have driven off the road! They need more lights on places like this. Maybe even a reflective guard. This corner had nothing.

Anyways, the cop said if I dispute the ticket he will nail me with other driving offences like "driving without due care" and "speeding" Etc. BUT he can't do that can he? He said he had taken pictures of everything and it seems that I was speeding. BUT if it seemed like I was speeding then why not give me the ticket then? Can he give me another ticket at a later time?

I want to dispute this ticket but after what he said I am getting second thoughts.

Thanks!!!

Glove · 06-12-2012, 11:52 AM

if your going to lie, atleast make it sound more convincing

CRS · 06-12-2012, 12:11 PM

He can certainly do everything he said (ie give you additional tickets at a later time).

T4RAWR · 06-12-2012, 02:12 PM

i drive the sea to sky fairly regularly (once a month) and im not too sure which section you're talking about.

can you try to clarify on google maps or something?

afaik, the sea to sky is lit up pretty well and i've never had a problem driving it in any weather condition at any time of the day.

GGnoRE · 06-12-2012, 02:21 PM

You failed to keep right, so the cop gave you a ticket for failing to keep right.

Your lucky you didn't hurt your passenger or any oncoming traffic around you when you lost control of your vehicle.

I suggest you man up to your mistake and drive with due care next time you're on a mountain.

SumAznGuy · 06-12-2012, 02:34 PM

I'd file a complaint against the officer for uttering threats and or blackmailing you.
I'd even go as far as going to the news and bringing this out to the public.

It is your right to a fair and speedy trial. Why should you avoid disputing your ticket even if you are guilty of whatever the charge is, just because you don't want a second ticket.

wing_woo · 06-12-2012, 04:27 PM

He gave you the ticket that was clearly what happened based on the pictures he said he took. That's why he only gave you that one and was giving you a break by only giving you one ticket.

Regardless of whether you were going at the speed limit or not, you lost control and therefore were driving faster than conditions warrant. ie. the speed limit is the maximum you can drive in optimal conditions...ie. if it were snowing, going at 80 in an 80 zone can still net you a ticket as you are driving dangerously relative to the conditions. If you crash in that snow example I gave, you could get a ticket for speeding relative to conditions (or something like that) or be slapped with a driving with undue care ticket.

BallPeenHammer2 · 06-12-2012, 06:30 PM

Dispute it.

If he had proof u did anything else, it'd be on that same ticket he gave you.

Pictures of a car on the wrong side of the road doesn't tell the entire story. Cops know that.

Plus. They have VIDEO cams in the car. Why would he only take a pic? It's a waste of time and effort.

Dispute it, if you're true to your story.

Marco911 · 06-12-2012, 07:22 PM

What is there to dispute? Your car cross the center line, went across oncoming traffic and ended up in the ditch. It could have turned out worse if there was a vehicle travelling in the opposite direction. Do you really consider this an accident, or driver error? If the latter, why don't you think you deserve a ticket for it?

IMO, the police should hand out tickets to just about every at-fault driver involved in a motor vehicle collision they attend. Since most "accidents" are in fact avoidable, people who end up in these situations deserve tickets.

bainstang · 06-12-2012, 09:41 PM

The car skid aprox 20-40 ft. One wheel got stuck in the ridge.

I want to dispute the ticket...

In my opinion, you should dispute every ticket you get, because half the cops never show up to court, since some of them dont even get paid for it, depending on the day.

I'm just wondering if he can actually give me more tickets once he finds out I have disputed the ticket. Theres no way in court he can prove I was speeding just from pictures? So what if there are pictures of my car on the left side? Where is proof I am lying? I don't want to show up to court and have another stack of tickets waiting for me, including driving without due care.

I was driving with care. Where does it seem like I'm lying? Im confused.

Literally never happened to me before. It was really weird/scary. Everything just went BLACK, couldnt see anything, before you knew it the lines started to curve, I freaked out, didnt want to go off the cliff so I slammed the brakes and turned left (a little too hard). This was aprox 10 mins south of Squamish in a bendy area, rail way tracks to the right, rock wall to the left.

Yeah true I did fail to keep right, I still want to dispute the ticket though as I think it's unfair.

SumAznGuy · 06-12-2012, 10:21 PM

Based on what you claim, getting the ticket is like getting a kick to the nuts while you are down.
While you were on the wrong side of the road, the cop could have been nicer and not issue the ticket.

While the officer can issue you a ticket for speeding and driving without due care, those 2 tickets are going to be hard for them to prove if you were to dispute them.

I'd say just dispute the ticket and have your day in court. If the officer doesn't show up, then you win.
If the officer shows up, try to talk to them before court and see if they can toss out the ticket. Or ask to have the fine reduced and time to pay the ticket extended.

Vale46Rossi · 06-12-2012, 10:35 PM

Quote:

In my opinion, you should dispute every ticket you get, because half the cops never show up to court, since some of them dont even get paid for it, depending on the day.

The dispute system is not a loop hole for you to not pay a ticket.

This is why we can't have nice things...

Marco911 · 06-13-2012, 03:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bainstang

The car skid aprox 20-40 ft. One wheel got stuck in the ridge.

I want to dispute the ticket...

I was driving with care. Where does it seem like I'm lying? Im confused.

Literally never happened to me before. It was really weird/scary. Everything just went BLACK, couldnt see anything, before you knew it the lines started to curve, I freaked out, didnt want to go off the cliff so I slammed the brakes and turned left (a little too hard). This was aprox 10 mins south of Squamish in a bendy area, rail way tracks to the right, rock wall to the left.

Yeah true I did fail to keep right, I still want to dispute the ticket though as I think it's unfair.

Go ahead and dispute then. As other posters mentioned there could be more tickets waiting for you. Driving without due care is easy to prove since you were in a motor vehicle accident.

zulutango · 06-13-2012, 05:02 AM

So you were going the speed limit on a Hwy with an 80k limit and you were not exceeding the limit. You were overdriving the distance that you could see with your headlights. The corner where you crashed had no warning signs-you never mentioned any. For some unexplained reason (zombie attack?) you lost control and crossed onto the other side of the roadway (i.e failed to keep right) and stuffed it in the ditch. Fortunately there was nobody on the wrong side of the road where you drove. You were still stuck in the ditch when the Cop got there and gave you a VT for failing to keep right, which you had failed to do.

There should be no reason to end up driving where you did. The road didn't suddenly change and there were no other vehicles sitting in the ditch next to you. If you can't see or are unfamiliar with the road then common sense says to slow down. Because you locked the brakes by improper application, inertia made the car continue straight ahead instead of turning with the road, and you crashed. You should be thankful that no other vehicles were there when you lost control and you only got a fail to keep right VT. You were driving w/o due care because you crashed and speed may have been part of what happened. It's just simpler to give you a fail to keep right ticket as it's easier to prove in court than a drive without due care. If you had been driving with due care you would not have crashed. Speed too fast for conditions may have also been one of the factors. People don't normally crash if they obey the limits and slow down if they are unfamiliar with the road.

6793026 · 06-13-2012, 07:45 AM

to answer your question, the cop can always issue more additional tickets later on.

bainstang · 06-13-2012, 08:24 AM

^ Thanks

Nlkko · 06-13-2012, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zulutango

(zombie attack?)

Rich Sandor · 06-13-2012, 11:31 PM

You should have gotten a ticket for "failing to drive with due care and consideration." That offense is far greater than 'failing to keep right" and carries a much higher fine, in addition to giving more driver penalty insurance premium points (which means ICBC will surcharge you for being a shitty driver.) You also should have gotten a ticket for "driving too fast for the conditions"

The beauty of it all, is that you can't successfully contest these tickets because your car in the ditch is PROOF. If you do contest the ticket and the cop does not show, well then you truly have horseshoes plopping out of your arse.

I have driven the sea-to-sky many many times in my last 15+ years of driving, including when it was twistier and more poorly lit than it is now. There is nothing dangerous about that highway, except the drivers who do not respect it.

You were driving too fast. Sometimes 80kph in an 80kph zone is too fast. Sometimes 50kph in an 80kph is still too fast. A GOOD driver can judge when the speed limit is too high for the road conditions, the equipment he is operating, and/or his own experience as well. You dropped the ball here, and you are BLOODY luck you didn't kill yourself or worse yet have a head-on collision and hurt or kill someone else. I can say that because I have been there before, I was stupid, and fortunately I realized it and modified my attitude and my driving.

It's common for everyone to blame anyone else as opposed to taking 100% of the blame for something they did wrong.

My advice:
- If you want to be a man and do the right thing: pay up and shut up, and take some advanced driving lessons. (I can direct you where)
- If you want to be a cheap weasel and play the system: fight it, hope the cop doesn't show up, because if he does it could be worse.

Let us know what you decide to do.

Marco911 · 06-14-2012, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

Based on what you claim, getting the ticket is like getting a kick to the nuts while you are down.
While you were on the wrong side of the road, the cop could have been nicer and not issue the ticket.

I hope you're joking. Issuing a VT at an accident scene helps to recoup cost for providing police assistance.

BallPeenHammer2 · 06-14-2012, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zulutango

If you had been driving with due care you would not have crashed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zulutango

People don't normally crash if they obey the limits and slow down if they are unfamiliar with the road.

It's obvious, that you've never spent a lot of time in the City of Richmond, eh?

I kid. I kid.

BallPeenHammer2 · 06-14-2012, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco911

I hope you're joking. Issuing a VT at an accident scene helps to recoup cost for providing police assistance.

I dunno what happened, but on an impartial point:

Sometimes good cops give bad tickets.

Sometimes you meet prick cops.

It happens. -shrug-

SumAznGuy · 06-14-2012, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco911

I hope you're joking. Issuing a VT at an accident scene helps to recoup cost for providing police assistance.

So now it is the police's job to recoup money for offering police assistance?

In this case, OP claims the officer showed up just as they had the car pulled out of the ditch and they were about to leave.

Marco911 · 06-14-2012, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BallPeenHammer2

I dunno what happened, but on an impartial point:

Sometimes good cops give bad tickets.

Sometimes you meet prick cops.

It happens. -shrug-

If you know me, you'd know I'm against giving tickets to most people who happen to be going about their day safely while happening to exceed the speed limit.

In an MVA, it's pretty clear that the at-fault driver needs to be ticketed.

Marco911 · 06-14-2012, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

So now it is the police's job to recoup money for offering police assistance?

In this case, OP claims the officer showed up just as they had the car pulled out of the ditch and they were about to leave.

It doesn't change the fact that the OP failed to keep right, lost control of his vehicle, and landed in a ditch. A ticket for failing to keep right should be the least of his worries. His biggest concern at this point should be how to become a better driver.

SumAznGuy · 06-14-2012, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco911

It doesn't change the fact that the OP failed to keep right, lost control of his vehicle, and landed in a ditch. A ticket for failing to keep right should be the least of his worries. His biggest concern at this point should be how to become a better driver.

Perhaps it doesn't, but that isn't what you said the first time around.

I agree with you on the last statement as his story just doesn't add up. I've been up and down the S2S enough to know that the road just doesn't go black.

But disputing the ticket is his right as a driver and it is a way to keep the officers honest. While not every officer thinks that way, you cannot deny no cops give out BS tickets for the sake of it. In this case, OP made a mistake and thankfully didn't kill anyone. But does giving him a ticket for failure to keep right accomplish anything? OP still doesn't think he did anything wrong and in fact is more pissed that he got a ticket.

Maybe if the officer sold it differently to OP, his view on the ticket would have been different. But by telling him not to dispute the ticket or he would issue 2 more VT's, that is wrong.

I've been there before and it isn't right. I was driving beside an officer going home doing the speed limit. They slow down and pull behind me and turn on the red and blue. I pull over and the guy asks me for my DL. The partner does the once over walk around the car and notices my front plate is on the dash and signals it to her partner. I get a ticket for no front plate and having the wrong addy on my DL. The second charge is crossed out on the ticket and the officer's last comment is not to dispute the ticket or else they will include the second charge again.

I dispute the ticket, called the police station and left him numerous voice messages asking for his notes from that night. He never returned my phone call and was a no show at court.

What was his motive for pulling me over? Who knows. I do know it was a fishing expedition under the disguise of a DL check.