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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
I support the ban on shark fin, but only because it is an endangered species.
Sharks lack unmyelinated neurons called nociceptors that is required to feel pain. You could literally jab the sharks with spears while they are feasting, and they would give zero fucks. So why does finning seem like such a cruel practice when they don't even feel pain?
Most of North American food industry give zero shit about being humane to chickens or cows. Have you seen what kind of conditions they are grown in? how they are slaughtered? Most of their body is consumed so the cruelty(?) upon them is now justified?
What if you kill the shark first, and then cut off the fins (like what we do with cows)? What if you kill the shark before putting it back in the water? Would it be okay now? (assuming they are not an endangered species)
I see where this is coming from for Western cultures and yes I agree it's inhumane in so many ways. However, you need to consider the fact that it's a business that has been going on for a long time, and yes it needs to stop soon or else the shark population will become extinct. That being said, try telling that to many of the businesses that have culture, tradition, and generations of the same thought that this is a delicacy for them. I'm not saying I'm defending them but I'm using a non bias stance on this even if I am Chinese myself, but also born in Vancouver and raised in Richmond; it's going to be tough to really come to an understanding and a conclusion.
You're a fucking moron. The core issue at discussion isn't banning eating shark fin soup, it's banning catching endangered sharks and especially banning catching them and wasting 99% of them to just hack the fins off. Your comparison to pizza is the most moronic thing I have ever read on this forum. The last time I checked, pizzas did not contain any endangered animals...
Mark
Hi Mark. let me take your example to the very extreme. I understand this example is very extreme. Also, please do some research, finning is not as prevalent as you think. Do I think it's a tragedy it is happening. Yes.
I'm just having a little fun here, don't get too mad.
You said the pizza doesn't contain any endangered species/affect well being/ or the pizza is harming the overall food chain?
is that really true?
Lets analyze a generic pizza from pizza hut.
The milk to make the cheese, is produced from a cow. She needs to be impregnated to make milk. The baby is either slaugther at site or turned into veal. If you live in the states, the milk probably has hormones in it to encourage milk production. The milk is pump, and often the udders are infected and thus they are fed an insane amount of antibotics.
Pepperoni,ham, sausage. Therefore cows, pigs, chickens. All these animals are fed crap diets, to encourage growth in a feedlot. Where they often fight each other because they can't move. chicken's are de-beaked so they don't peck at each other. Most of them are in a concrete floor, which damages their hooves/feet and promotes constant swelling and pussing. When they are slaughter, cows are shot in the head with a rod gun, and pigs and chicken have their throat slit. Usually when they are awake. Also, maybe breeds bovine, swine, and poultry are actually endangered species because they're not good for mass consumption. Depending on where you live, you might have just mowed down an old growth forest to build the feedlot.
Wheat, Tomatoes, peppers and mushrooms. All of them are grown in a gigantic mono cultural lot with a lot of pesticides to keep bugs out, herbicides to keep weed out. sometimes you would need to fumigate the soil to keep pest out to start with. These pesticides are positivity linked to the collapsing bee colony issue, and bee pollinate and thus provide food for everything. The fertilizer you need to grow all of this requires lots of fossil fuel, such as nitrogen, phosphorus and potash. This needs to be mined, and transported from thousands of miles away. Extra fertilizers becomes run off and destory waterways. Mushroom grows best on tree mulch, so a bunch of trees has to be cut down and grounded up to let the mushrooms grow in plastic containers. The plowing and harvesting of wheat probably kills hundreds of miliions of small rabbits, mole, vole every year.
So if i was a special interest group promoting why we should ban the pizza. Would you for a split second think that it would be a great idea?
What does this have to do with banning shark finning? Nothing at all.
But to say you don't want to harm an endangered animal, therefore you shouldn't eat a shark fin is a pretty weak idea. Probably, simply calling your pizza hut, and having them deliver you a pizza has probably caused more environmental destruction and animal suffering then you can possibly believe. I understand that a shark is a charismatic mega fauna that people loves to ooooo over for.
Banning shark fin is great idea, lets see when the last time prohibition has worked?? Why don't we use this money and educate our own people why we shouldn't eat it. The market for shark fin in canada compare to rest of asia is minimal to say that least. Are we going to start policing the rest of the world too?
i know no one will read this, nor give a damn. But it was a fun thought experiment for myself.
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Of course Richmond Restaurateur rejects shark fin ban, its losing money to them. personally I dont support the ban in Richmond, but would rather ban shark fin for the whole province/country, ban it in Richmond just giving business advantage to chinese restaurant in near-by city. shark fin consumsion will be the same but driving the chinese wedding banquet to other city like vancouver and Burnaby.
The milk to make the cheese, is produced from a cow. She needs to be impregnated to make milk. The baby is either slaugther at site or turned into veal. If you live in the states, the milk probably has hormones in it to encourage milk production. The milk is pump, and often the udders are infected and thus they are fed an insane amount of antibotics.
Sorry I can't stop laughing right now
WOW so you think a cow has to be impregnated to produce milk?
Sorry I think I'm done
Nope I was wrong
So what were we talking about again?
Let me guess a chicken has to be impregnated to lay eggs as well? they have gotten around that parts as long as I can remember
fuck guys ill be straight up. i love shark fin soup. as a kid on my birthday id ask my mom to take us out for shark fin soup.
it's delicious. and funny thing is a lot of people I talk to who says it doesn't taste good haven't even tried it."OH I JUST READ IT HAS NO TASTE BLAH BLAH BLAH".
you must order the right ones from the right restaurant cause its not an easy soup to make. we call our chefs, master in chinese (see fu) for a reason.
but taste is not the main concern of debate.
the issue is, what will happen if sharks go extinct?
it's all speculation as of now, with lots of debating.
and no one will know exactly what will happen unless sharks really do go extinct. the truth is, sharks are already sooooo close to becoming extinct that some in some waters they already are extinct.
tons of people kill sharks illegally, and of course they aren't going to report it.
the main argument is that the ecosystem will collapse.
and the counter argument right now is that, nothing will happen if sharks become extinct. the proof is right now, with the huge decline of sharks, nothing has happened to humans. people say that the ecosystem will adapt and adjust as it is doing so now.
like i said, its all speculation and debating. that is why there are still people arguing because it's hard to prove shit.
i do believe that earth will be better without shark finning, because species going extinct is RARELY a good thing.
i can tell you now that it's going to be close to impossible to stop shark finning globally. it's like saying to shark finners, stop making this huge amount of $ you're making and find a new career.
Hi Mark. let me take your example to the very extreme. I understand this example is very extreme. Also, please do some research, finning is not as prevalent as you think. Do I think it's a tragedy it is happening. Yes.
I'm just having a little fun here, don't get too mad.
I didn't fail this post because you brought up some interesting points. All valid of course (however saying "please do your research" is BS unless you're showing us studies yourself).
The point is sharks sit on top of the food chain they are Apex Predators. They have no predators on top. (see its not hard to link info). They're not the same as halibut, any fish, cows, cats, dogs whatever you eat may be.
That's not to say killing animals for food in the way you described is right, its also wrong but its not as severely impacting on our environment and ecosystem as sharks are.
WOW so you think a cow has to be impregnated to produce milk?
Cows need to be impregnated to produce milk... Of course, you continuously milk them after they give birth, but without the pregnancy, there would be no milk.
seemingly that is the only part you got right in your obnoxious tease of a post.
"A cow only starts to produce milk once her first calf is born. Each cow can produce five times more milk than the calf needs, so farmers milk the cows to feed people.
Cows typically have their first calf when they are two years old. Like humans, a cow is pregnant with her calf for nine months. Normally a cow has a calf once a year.
Once she is pregnant she continues to give milk for about seven months. The farmer stops milking her two months prior to the birth so she can devote all her energy to producing her new calf. "
Originally posted by 97ITR He would step out of his freshly downtown autospa detailed 996 C4s, check out his own reflection in the driverside window out of habit, take off his brand new limited edition D&G aviator sunglasses so the mf can see the fury in his eyes, sashay over to the other guy and then threaten to insert his black leather Savatore Ferragamo loafers into the guys rear-end.
No, because you only implied that chickens have advanced in terms of farming their eggs.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 97ITR He would step out of his freshly downtown autospa detailed 996 C4s, check out his own reflection in the driverside window out of habit, take off his brand new limited edition D&G aviator sunglasses so the mf can see the fury in his eyes, sashay over to the other guy and then threaten to insert his black leather Savatore Ferragamo loafers into the guys rear-end.
I support the ban on shark fin, but only because it is an endangered species.
Sharks lack unmyelinated neurons called nociceptors that is required to feel pain. You could literally jab the sharks with spears while they are feasting, and they would give zero fucks. So why does finning seem like such a cruel practice when they don't even feel pain?
Most of North American food industry give zero shit about being humane to chickens or cows. Have you seen what kind of conditions they are grown in? how they are slaughtered? Most of their body is consumed so the cruelty(?) upon them is now justified?
What if you kill the shark first, and then cut off the fins (like what we do with cows)? What if you kill the shark before putting it back in the water? Would it be okay now? (assuming they are not an endangered species)
This is incorrect. Something like 13-30% of the nociceptors in most sharks are unmyelinated. Humans are about 50%. Manta Rays are about 1%.
Sharks can and do feel pain: but the extent of it is hard to measure by our standards without what I would consider cruel testing.
Some fish have been shown to get elevated heart rates with the introduction of painful stimuli, and consequently have lower heart rates when treated with morphine. Whether or not they have the mental capacity to register this as pain by our standards is questionable, but do we REALLY have to prove it? Can't we just assume that it makes sense that if we hurt an animal it will feel some sort of pain?? Why do we need to justify inhumane slaughter with ANY excuse?
I would hope that with all the bullshit taxes we pay, we have federal and provincial inspectors that ensure that our livestock are treated humanely.
I don't see why we should allow the import of food product from animals that were inhumanely slaughtered.
I also strongly feel that 'tradition' is a bullshit excuse to condone unethical treatment of animals.
As an aside, ironically, the traditional Inuit seal hunt was once greatly protested due the images of seals being clubbed. Again, ironically, the traditional Inuit club, if built to the correct GoC specs, is more likely to provide a clean, quick, and relatively painless death than a minimum or greater velocity bullet would be able to do. Yet everyone was campaign for sealers to stop using the clubs.
If shark fin soup is so good for you then why are we not farming sharks or eating it on a regular basis?
Because it has VERY LITTLE NUTRITIONAL VALUE!
I understand it's a part of tradition and Chinese culture but its going to effect the world if we don't reduce consumption.
We need to educate people of the harm that its causing and the cascading effects of killing an apex predator.
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