REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

sh0n · 09-10-2012, 06:32 PM

I have a tenant that is refusing to move in to a rental and fulfilling out the lease.

The condo is 4 years old in the Heart of Downtown Vancouver and is very well maintained (we always deep clean and repaint walls after tenancies). It's a furnished rental with executive styled furniture (most items are brand new) Everything in the condo is in working order and nothing is broken or needs repair.

The situation is this:
- She is from out of province and saw my ad online, decided it was for her and signed a a fixed term lease agreement (deposit and rent paid) as per BC residential tenancy agreement
- When she arrived into the rental for the first time, she claimed that "She couldn't breath and the condo, had very bad fung shui and didn't like the direction where it was facing". (Condo has 8-9ft ceilings)

I currently have on file from her:
1/2 month's deposit and the 1st month's rent.

She refuses to move in and even live in it and also will not commit to the term of the lease agreement.

What should I do and what is my recourse?

Gridlock and Dinosaur: I would really appreciate your response!

sekin67835 · 09-10-2012, 06:35 PM

At least you have her deposit and first moth of payment. Because she breached the lease agreement you should be able to keep the deposit. Why don't you put an ad up again and rent it to someone else?
Posted via RS Mobile

Gridlock · 09-10-2012, 07:34 PM

Oh sweet jesus I hate people sometimes.

Ok, its time for a reality check for her. Is it a 1 year lease with option to go month to month, or fixed term lease?

Going to assume its 1 year. If you guys aren't signing people on 1 year with month to month option leases, I'm ashamed of the work in educating we've done

It shocks me how many tenants have NO idea what they are signing in terms of leases.

A lease is a promissory note to pay a certain amount of money for the use of a property for the duration of the lease. So, if the rent is $833 per month, I am signing a document that agrees that I owe you $10,000 for your apartment for the year, payable monthly.

Now, you can get your money from her, or you can get it from a combination of people. Doesn't matter-you are entitled to $10,000 for the next year.

And if you don't, its called "Loss of Rental Revenue".

So, you get miss "Feng Shui" princess on the phone, and you tell her that you have the deposit, and you have the rent for September. On October 1, you are expecting your rent for October. On October 2nd, if you don't have it, you are serving her a RTB-10(downloadable from the RTB site).

option 2, is she can provide written notice that she is intending to leave. She needs to have that to you on the last day of the previous month(August 31 for end of tenancy on September 30th.) As she has not done so, you will be handing her a RTB-10 on October 2 as above if rent is not paid.

Upon receiving this notice, I will attempt to rent the apartment. If I am unable to rent it for the monthly rent that you agreed to, I will expect compensation for the duration of the lease between the difference of the rent I collect, and the amount in your lease.

And that's how it goes folks. To the question above, "Why don't you put an ad up again and rent it to someone else?" yeah, ultimately, that's what you need to do, and that's a part of the game, but on the flip side, why should he have to run around and fix this chicks mistakes? We used to do all kinds of things to help people out-and I got tired of it. You get a quick thanks as a sign of appreciation as they pack their shit into another apartment. I got tired of it. I'm expected to adhere to the residential tenancy act, and I'll have the sweetest old lady shove the thing sideways up my ass if I don't-well, it goes both ways. He didn't force her to sign the lease. And in fact, and I bet this is going through the OP's head, he did her a solid of renting to her from out of town probably sight unseen, and his 'quick thanks of appreciation' is this bullshit.

Teaches you about favors for strangers,doesn't it?

sh0n · 09-10-2012, 07:55 PM

To go on topic.

We signed a odd 11 month lease (almost 1 year) at her request cause she was in town for a school program with the option to renew. Yes she decided to sign the lease sight unseen.

I met with her today and she absolutely refuses to live or move-in.

I have no forwarding address or phone number as she just travelled into town.

I'm debating a whole bunch of options:
From:
Gridlock's approach to cutting my loses and moving on.

@Gridlock: you are very right its very tough when I, as a landlord abide by the RTA, yet tenants take it for a joke and thinks contracts can just be torn up and doesn't count

Any other advice would be very much appreciated.

tool001 · 09-10-2012, 08:09 PM

i learnt my lessons renting to people from out of prov. ... guy signs a 6 month term, moves in, gets fired from his job. takes up job with moving company....end of 2nd month, wants to terminate lease. moves out, goes to Mexico for vacation, then ask me to forgive his diposite citing money issues.

lesson learnt, dont lease to people out of province without meeting them, measuring them, and them taking a good look at ur place.

ps. i kept the deposit....for breaking lease

tiger_handheld · 09-10-2012, 08:12 PM

I'm not property manager but if I was OP - I would list the place ASAP then try to work a deal out with the other party. It seems the longer OP has to wait, the more money he will lose.

Downloading, filling out, serving RTB-10 forms a lot of admin time that can be spent on putting the place back in the market. After all OP has deposit + first months rent.

my 0.02. Would like to hear if there is anything wrong with my process.

sh0n · 09-10-2012, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiger_handheld

I'm not property manager but if I was OP - I would list the place ASAP then try to work a deal out with the other party. It seems the longer OP has to wait, the more money he will lose.

Downloading, filling out, serving RTB-10 forms a lot of admin time that can be spent on putting the place back in the market. After all OP has deposit + first months rent.

my 0.02. Would like to hear if there is anything wrong with my process.

Thanks for your reply.

My original though and intention before posting the thread was to do it that way - it's the RL way and bypasses alot of the buraucratic filing and serving.

Gridlock's advice is the real way of how things are done.

Still deciding if I have any better option.

dinosaur · 09-10-2012, 08:25 PM

Put up some ads and try to rent it. You have a so-so chance of getting rid of it for Oct 1st.

If you don't or you need to reduce the rent on the unit, then you gotta go after her.

Start playing nice with her right now....tell her you are going to try and rent it. Tell her that you are going to return the security deposit (because, if you DO rent it...you need to give it back to her within 15 days or she has the right to double it back - you need to file with the RTB to keep a deposit in any situation UNLESS the tenant gives you written permission to keep it). But, like I said, tell her you are going to give it back to her if you can rent it (even if you are not) and get a forwarding address. Tell her she can use a friend...family...anything....just get a damn address. Tell her, you also need to forward her mail, etc. Just get the damn address. Play nice, blah blah blah, then fuck her.

Also, if she filled out an application and gave work info, family info, school info, etc...you can track her down that way. You can also perform another credit check to get her address.

So, like I said...try and rent it...reduce the rent if you have to (it reflects well on you during an arbitration case to show that you made an effort to re-rent the property).

Like Grid said, she has signed a contract guaranteeing the rental unit will produce x amount of dollars for 11 months.

IF you do rent the unit for the same price for Oct 1st and there is not loss of rental revenue there is little that you can do. Technically, unless she has signed a liquidated damages clause stating that there is a penalty if she breaks the lease, you can't even keep the security deposit. So, at some point, she will need to give you her forwarding address. Like I said, you have 15 days from the day she gives you that address to put it in the mail. If she doesn't give you the address....the money is all yours.

Some times it is easier to find another tenant than deal with a princess tenant....but, you should not have to lose money for that sacrifice.

Let us know what happens

sh0n · 09-10-2012, 08:48 PM

One more note I forgot to mention.

I have an addendum with a pretty heavy liquidated damage clause (in my lease its called tenancy breakup by the tenant).

My clause states she agrees to pay the maximum of $750 per month remaining for each month remaining in the tenancy agreement or 1 month's rent and is subject to the landlord's discretion.

She signed both my addendum and the regular RTA agreement (agreeing to the addendum and all it's terms).

Does this matter?

dinosaur · 09-10-2012, 09:00 PM

yowza! Yeah...that matters.

If I am reading that correctly, even if you do rent the unit to another person...she still needs to pay up to $750/month up to 11 months.

That is an incredibly stiff penalty and if it goes to arbitration, the judge could rule it is excessive....BUT she did sign it.

It seems to me that she is well aware of the consequences and you have done you due diligence with making sure that she is aware of any and all penalties for breaking the fixed lease.

What would I do? Take any means necessary to get and address for her and follow through with the lease agreements (loss of revenue and liquidated damages)...but then again, thats just me...and I was just called an arrogant fucking bitch by a tenant the other day.

Its up to you. The way I see it, however, is if the shoe was on the other foot...you a tenant allow you to break the agreement? Probably not. You have proven yourself to be a good landlord by sticking to the RTA, having proper paper work, etc...you should expect the same from your tenant.

Gridlock · 09-10-2012, 09:08 PM

Hell yeah that matters! That is pretty steep, but at least you can negotiate down from there.

Here's how I look at these things, and its a little different from dino's philosophy.

People break lease. It happens. Its rare that its because of feng shui, but it happens. I want to tax them some money, otherwise the leases are useless...like, whats the point of the one years lease if there is no financial penalty to breaking it? I want to make sure I'm covered on rent for the duration of the lease, and I want a pain in my ass out of my life.

Honestly, I'd fight you if you went after 750/month for the remainder of the lease as liquidated damages as unreasonable(yes, I know that your apartment is decent money) but thats me.

So if your rent is $2000/month, I have no issue with a one time $750 charge on liq.damages and loss of rental revenue for the lease. I think the branch would be in agreement that something in that range is "reasonable" (a word they LOVE to use) That 750 covers you for having to re-rent the unit as thats a pain in the ass and so on.

So, I'd get her on the phone and use my "carrot and stick" conversation. Bait her with the carrot of not going for the full monthly liq.damages and make it a one-time fee, and beat her with the stick of being that pain in the ass in an unfamiliar town if she doesn't comply. You've been here a week and already have problems. Let me know how you want this to play out, because I'm open to reasonable options. BTW-reasonable does not mean you walk away and I'm left holding the bag. Go.

I ALWAYS love to get a tenant to see your side of the issue, and make them think about what they would do in your situation. Makes fucking you so much more difficult for reasonable people.

Gridlock · 09-10-2012, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiger_handheld

I'm not property manager but if I was OP - I would list the place ASAP then try to work a deal out with the other party. It seems the longer OP has to wait, the more money he will lose.

Downloading, filling out, serving RTB-10 forms a lot of admin time that can be spent on putting the place back in the market. After all OP has deposit + first months rent.

my 0.02. Would like to hear if there is anything wrong with my process.

I totally get where you are coming from..and dude, it goes through my head all the time, do I REALLY want this.

Because its a pain in the ass. It really can be.

BUT. It's a pain in everyone's ass. I like to think I'm reasonable with people. I genuinely do. Some tenants agree with me, and some do not. A lot agree on principle, until they see what things cost and then think I'm being unreasonable. At this point, I say fuck it, its not my job to hand hold people through life.

My point is, I'm not one of those guys that think the way to make easy money is hold back the damage deposit for bullshit items and gouge people. i want me, and the owners to be made whole. That's it.

But I think there are a lot of people that don't think the effort is worth it,and let the tenants walk. And if I let them walk, then they get away with it, and will do it again. Or have done it before.

Plus..some tenants are just assholes. Just the same as I'm sure some landlords are. And after I've had a bad day, or a few other tenants got away with it, and they do, I sometimes like to ruin the day of some asshole tenant that had it coming. And I think that when I pay my $50 to the branch to hear my case.

sh0n · 09-10-2012, 09:34 PM

Thank you for all the insights and comments.

In my case when I was with her today I did mention about that clause and said it's up to my discretion and I told her outright I want 1 month's penalty and we can both move on.

She would not come to a comprimise and we are left where we are now.

Still weighing alot of options that are out there.

sh0n · 09-10-2012, 09:36 PM

One of the reasons for such a stiff clause is because in the end of the day I do not want to get stiffed.

I fully adhere to the RTA and commit my time, resources and the comfort and enjoyment of the apartment for the tenant for the said specified time. All I ask is that whatever you sign in black and white (as a legally binding contract) that it binds both of us together.

I'm not senile or incomprehensible where I'm rising or doubling the rent for that tenant - I sign a lease I commit to whatever conditions and financial terms are set forth.

Or else there shouldn't be leases and contracts in real life if people can break it so easily.

sh0n · 09-10-2012, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinosaur

yowza! Yeah...that matters.

If I am reading that correctly, even if you do rent the unit to another person...she still needs to pay up to $750/month up to 11 months.

That is an incredibly stiff penalty and if it goes to arbitration, the judge could rule it is excessive....BUT she did sign it.

It seems to me that she is well aware of the consequences and you have done you due diligence with making sure that she is aware of any and all penalties for breaking the fixed lease.

What would I do? Take any means necessary to get and address for her and follow through with the lease agreements (loss of revenue and liquidated damages)...but then again, thats just me...and I was just called an arrogant fucking bitch by a tenant the other day.

Its up to you. The way I see it, however, is if the shoe was on the other foot...you a tenant allow you to break the agreement? Probably not. You have proven yourself to be a good landlord by sticking to the RTA, having proper paper work, etc...you should expect the same from your tenant.

The 11 month penalty is correct also it can be 1 month's rent as penalty which is up to our discretion.

In which I tried to already negotiate with her today that if she wanted to break the least it'll be 1 month's penalty which imo is very fair given the time value of money and my lost opportunity cost for other potential tenants.

Gridlock · 09-11-2012, 06:28 AM

Well, its time to tell her to cut you a check, or sign off on the condition report that you keep the liquidated damages out of the deposit and walk away. You'll contact her if there is a loss of rental revenue issue.

She either agrees or does not. You can sometimes get a reasonable person to see logic, but most times its only you that can change. You can't force her to move in, and if you did she'd be the type to just nitpick the place to death anyway to make your life hell.

So you need to decide...good with keeping the deposit as payment for this bullshit, or not? If not, then you need her to pay, and when she refuses, take her to court. It's up to you to decide how much effort its worth.

GLOW · 09-11-2012, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinosaur

...but then again, thats just me...and I was just called an arrogant fucking bitch by a tenant the other day.

was the tenant right?

6793026 · 09-11-2012, 07:45 AM

I deal with a lot of rental issues, in fact i have a hearing 1:30 pm today but that's another story.

There is no such thing as penalty. if you want to rightfully take that money, you have to do it thru the proper procedures. HOWEVER, 90% of the people i have deal with knows fully it's their fault and they won't sue you for keeping the deposit.

Gridlock · 09-11-2012, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6793026

I deal with a lot of rental issues, in fact i have a hearing 1:30 pm today but that's another story.

There is no such thing as penalty. if you want to rightfully take that money, you have to do it thru the proper procedures. HOWEVER, 90% of the people i have deal with knows fully it's their fault and they won't sue you for keeping the deposit.

No, there is definitely not a "penalty" and you must be careful to not use the term "penalty" in anyway. My fear on the liq.damages as in Shon's leases is that even though they signed up to it, it wouldn't hold as being used for its intentions(cover costs of re-rent and a bit of a stick to make you stick out the lease) but as a penalty, and not hold up as reasonable.

dinosaur · 09-11-2012, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLOW

was the tenant right?

well....i can be arrogant....and i can be a bitch....was I during that conversation?? maybe

but he deserved it...just won the arbitration case against him yesterday!

GLOW · 09-11-2012, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinosaur

well....i can be arrogant....and i can be a bitch....was I during that conversation?? maybe

but he deserved it...just won the arbitration case against him yesterday!

that's when you don the sith robes and let the butthurt flow through him?

remember to make this face

Soundy · 09-11-2012, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dinosaur

(10:00pm) yowza! Yeah...that matters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gridlock

(10:08pm)Hell yeah that matters!

So, do you guys take turns at the same computer, or...?

Gridlock · 09-11-2012, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soundy

So, do you guys take turns at the same computer, or...?

We're the same person and its an elaborate con...

too_slow · 09-11-2012, 09:28 AM

From a contract law perspective, when the leasee communicates their intention to breach the contract, the leaser has a duty to mitigate damages (i.e. re-posting the ad ASAP to maintain rental income continuity). The leasee (OP) has every right to keep the deposit, the 1st mth rent, as well as to sue for the damages (lost rental income) until a new leaser is found.

P.S. don't sue if you believe the student is broke, and has no $ to pay for the damages (unless his/her parents co-signed)
*not legal advice*

GLOW · 09-11-2012, 09:44 AM

i can see how renting is definitely frustrating. you get problems with tenants not moving out...and problems with tenants now not moving IN...