Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[miss_crayon]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

The long-term plan for that site is 7 towers, with a maximum height of 70 floors. At least the city of Burnaby managed to negotiate a community centre out of the developer.

I've lived in this area for nearly a decade and the long-term transition from light industrial to residential/commercial is finally being realized. There will be more rezoning and more buildings to come. Onni owns the block between Gilmore and Madison and there's another site by Halifax and Gilmore that will be rezoned soon.

Actually, 10-12 towers. Also, tower 1 and 2 are the tallest at 63 storeys (now sold out) and remaining buildings will be built at a lower height.

Originally Posted by radioman

So my building doesn't have any floor with 4 in it. I've been told its death in chinese?

I wonder if that brentwood building goes from 39-50

We didn't skip any floors this time and will be built with a true 54 storeys (not 53 as somebody else mentioned). 54 will be PH. We did the full #40s stack in T1/T2.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

If it is a in a central location price tends to stay the same or up over time and is easiler to sell

That's the right idea. But you see a crap ton of HUGE towers and complexes go up right around skytrain stations new and old. It all comes down to supply and demand, not necessarily central location. And it seems like there is and will be lots of supply coming onboard in the near future.

[Hehe]

FWIW, if there were smaller unit in PH level (and I do mean the absolute top), it is not bad as an investment as they tend to be the last to go down in downturn and goes crazy when going up.

My dad owned a small corner PH unit (only about 400sqft inside) in Taipei next to Taipei 101 as he used to travel back and forth often for a legal issue in Taiwan and he didn't like to stay in hotel very much. When he first got it, it was 12M TWD, about 400K USD 10 years ago. I believe he got it for 15% down and 4% interest. He figured it'd be cheaper than hotel overall and no one would touch his shit (legal paperworks for the case)

He sold it after the whole legal thing was done in 2013 for 25M, or about 800k USD. Now Taipei is in downturn, but it's still around the same price my dad sold it for 2 years ago, coming off 15-20% from the peak.

Its current owner just rent it out to foreign companies as executive stays and supposedly is doing ok. And his clients love it for the location as well as the environment.

[nah]

This is fucking bullshit and makes my blood boil.

Because homeowners are failing to report global income, some of Metro Vancouver’s most elite neighbourhoods appear “poor” and therefore pay low or no income taxes. Some mansion owners receive welfare cheques.

Thousands of Metro Vancouver mansion owners avoiding taxes | Vancouver Sun

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by nah

This is fucking bullshit and makes my blood boil.



Thousands of Metro Vancouver mansion owners avoiding taxes | Vancouver Sun

It's actually hard to go after those.

Many of their income falls under different people's name and last time I checked, having a mansion while getting minimum wage isn't a crime.

Say a rich second-gen has his parents supplying everything he needs plus more. From a taxable income perspective, gift or family assistance are not considered as taxable income. And if such person doesn't work, he/she actually falls into the definition of low income.

I'd like them to review the welfare checks though, I mean, those are meant to assist people who really need them and not people who live in baller life but falls into the technicality of low-income definition.

[StylinRed]

there is the idea of giving everyone a welfare cheque, including the wealthy, the belief (universal welfare) is that those that dont need it will simply put that money back into the economy, and it's easier (cheaper) to administer, whereas selective welfare is more tedious and expensive to deal out

[nah]

They really need to do it like Australia where foreigners are taxed on their property purchase regardless if it's new or not. At least the country will be able to recoup some of the welfare money given to these people. When you're considered low income you don't pay MSP premiums, free prescription drugs, etc.

[quasi]

Originally Posted by UFO

That's the right idea. But you see a crap ton of HUGE towers and complexes go up right around skytrain stations new and old. It all comes down to supply and demand, not necessarily central location. And it seems like there is and will be lots of supply coming onboard in the near future.

More towers going up then during the Olympics, prices are climbing for construction of them. All those guys who signed up cheap towers last year where they are just starting them now are going to get fucked royally when it cost them 25% more plus to complete them. The other side of the coin is all those developers who waited awarding the work planning to shop to the very last minute are going to get a wake up call when nobody is holding there expired prices and it's costing them more money.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

there is the idea of giving everyone a welfare cheque, including the wealthy, the belief (universal welfare) is that those that dont need it will simply put that money back into the economy, and it's easier (cheaper) to administer, whereas selective welfare is more tedious and expensive to deal out

Pretty much. It's not like the people who actually need the welfare checks are doing anything positive with it. Most you could give 5X the amount and it wouldn't make a difference, just more money to spend foolishly

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by nah

This is fucking bullshit and makes my blood boil.



Thousands of Metro Vancouver mansion owners avoiding taxes | Vancouver Sun

Is not hard to do. Say a family of 4 dad wife and 2 kids. Dad decides to stay in his own country to run his multi billion dollar company and chose not to report any of it to revenue Canada coz he isn't a Canada citizen or Canadian. But wife and kids are staying here. Now since wife isn't working coz dad's supplying the money she is considered a low income living in a multi million house, getting free Health Care, low income assistance, doesn't pay tax and her 2 kids are getting child support etc etc.... all while driving a mercedes, using a hermes purse, her kids driving ferrari. Oh and to make it even better since her kids are now Canadian citizen they also get the pay tution fees that local pay rather than the rate international students pay.

[sdubfid]

All of the foreign multi billionaires I hang out with definitely come to Canada and collect welfare so their kids can drive ferraris and get free Doctor checkup.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by nah

This is fucking bullshit and makes my blood boil.



Thousands of Metro Vancouver mansion owners avoiding taxes | Vancouver Sun

Welcome to, oh, 2+ decades ago.

[will068]

Originally Posted by UFO

Welcome to, oh, 2+ decades ago.

Back then it was the Cantonese folks from HK. Now, it's mainlanders from China.

At the end of the day, that student loan money will fund that new body kit (at least from what I witnessed during my day).

[Traum]

Originally Posted by will068

Back then it was the Cantonese folks from HK. Now, it's mainlanders from China.

I'm sure we've covered this topic before -- while there are similarities between the Cantonese HK folks from the 90's and the Mainland China folks that we get now, there are also significant differences as well. The 2 things that stand out the most are:

1) the relatively manageable number of Cantonese HK immigrants vs the overwhelming number of Mainland Chinese immigrants

2) the upper middle class wealth from the Cantonese HK immigrants vs the opulent super rich Mainland Chinese immigrants

Try as they might, the HK folks from the 90's could only shift and influence the markets a bit. The current Mainland Chinese folks, on the other hand, are completely re-defining the market landscape.

[Tapioca]

Unrelated to most of the recent discussion, but interesting real estate news nevertheless...

It looks like the Bentall 1-4 towers are now for sale. I'm not sure what Ivanhoe Cambridge is thinking, but maybe they think there's too much office space coming online in Vancouver?

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by Traum

I'm sure we've covered this topic before -- while there are similarities between the Cantonese HK folks from the 90's and the Mainland China folks that we get now, there are also significant differences as well. The 2 things that stand out the most are:

1) the relatively manageable number of Cantonese HK immigrants vs the overwhelming number of Mainland Chinese immigrants

2) the upper middle class wealth from the Cantonese HK immigrants vs the opulent super rich Mainland Chinese immigrants

Try as they might, the HK folks from the 90's could only shift and influence the markets a bit. The current Mainland Chinese folks, on the other hand, are completely re-defining the market landscape.

Back in those days, those guys drove around in BMW 328's and C280's. And a few M3's.
Today, it's Lambos, Ferarri's, and other super high end super cars with their N's on the back.

[Galactic_Phantom]

^Back in the day the immigrants made efforts to learn English and assimilate

Now Chinamen still think they are living in China. Ugghh..go back to your shitholes if you don't want to let go of that culture

[nah]

Now they're moving onto commercial real estate. Would not surprise me to see a Chinese firm buy the Bentall complex.

Chinese investors scoop up Vancouver and Toronto office towers, as more eye commercial market

[4444]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

Unrelated to most of the recent discussion, but interesting real estate news nevertheless...

It looks like the Bentall 1-4 towers are now for sale. I'm not sure what Ivanhoe Cambridge is thinking, but maybe they think there's too much office space coming online in Vancouver?

they'll get a really good price for it in this cap rate environment. maybe they need the liquidity to build something / make higher return elsewhere.

i'd imagine the bentall centres are a pretty safe bet from the perspective of lease space as they have so many anchor tenants (accounting firms, banks, etc.) as opposed to the consolidating smaller mining companies (though there are plenty in the bentall centres), fly by night tech companies, etc.

[nah]

Originally Posted by 4444

they'll get a really good price for it in this cap rate environment. maybe they need the liquidity to build something / make higher return elsewhere.

i'd imagine the bentall centres are a pretty safe bet from the perspective of lease space as they have so many anchor tenants (accounting firms, banks, etc.) as opposed to the consolidating smaller mining companies (though there are plenty in the bentall centres), fly by night tech companies, etc.

The mall is pretty dead though, only stores that make money is in the food court. They should just make the place a giant food pavilion.

[lowside67]

I work in one of the Bentall towers and there are actually a lot of vacancies in the underground commercial space, there is one good sized one that has been vacant since I started in February.

Mark

[4444]

Originally Posted by lowside67

I work in one of the Bentall towers and there are actually a lot of vacancies in the underground commercial space, there is one good sized one that has been vacant since I started in February.

Mark

i wonder what the relative cost of office vs. commercial space is in those buildings.

whilst way more visible to the average person, given the sheer relative scope i'd imagine that as long as office vacancies are low, the commercial is irrelevant. in the end of the day, the commercial is really only there to cater to the office workers (in simple terms)

[lowside67]

Oh I absolutely agree that that is a small component in the overall project's operating income, but I just thought it was interesting as to the best of my knowledge, the office towers are perpetually leased or close to it, you would think this would drive demand for the retail even though it's only limited hours.

Mark

[Tapioca]

It's hard to imagine what interesting retail would go in the old Grand and Toy space since most people in the area who want to shop go to Robson or Pacific Centre. There are a few Mom and Pop food outlets there, so it can't be too expensive to lease space.

There's a relatively new men's made-to-measure outlet. I had a chat with the proprietor's daughter one afternoon. Nice people, though I'm not sure how well they'll do over the long-term. At least they're another local source for Allen Edmonds shoes.

Anyway, enough rambling. Where were we? Vancouver has sold its soul! Vancouver has no jobs, no prospects, and has shitty drivers. I'm leaving for San Fran, Austin, Shanghai, Dubai, Berlin! Carry on!

[nah]

I think you'll see a brain drain down south again with the USD being as strong as it is.