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Old 04-08-2016, 03:14 PM   #5626
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My parents lived in a duplex and they rented out the other half during all of my childhood so I'm used to it. The house I purchased only has a mortgage slightly higher than 1500 but I'm still converting part of the basement to a suite to rent out. Don't need the extra space right now so I'm happy to be making some cash from it and having something set up for later on if my parents need assistance and need to be close by.

The stats for income is a bit skewed for what the average person makes though

"Income threshold is based on ranking Canadians within the national individual income distribution. Individuals who had zero or negative incomes were included in the income distribution, and accounted for 4.9% of the population."

and

"'Canadians' in this document refers to Canadians in private households aged 15 years and over (born before May 10, 1996). The 2011 National Household Survey (NHS) estimated 27,259,500 Canadians aged 15 years and over living in private households"

I'd like to see what the average full time employee makes.
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Old 04-08-2016, 03:50 PM   #5627
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Originally Posted by Scotsman View Post
Here is what I found from StatCan from 2011 and yes you are correct. Only 5%:

The top 10% of Canadians had incomes over $80,400

According to the 2011 NHS, 10% of Canadians had total incomes of more than $80,400 in 2010, almost triple the national median income of $27,800. To be in the top 5%, Canadians needed to have a total income of slightly above $102,300 and to be in the top 1% required just over $191,100, nearly seven times the national median income.

The top 10% of Canadians made an average income of $134,900, with the top 5% making one third more ($179,800) and the top 1% almost triple that amount ($381,300). Meanwhile, the bottom 90% had an average income of $28,000.

https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/...1003_2-eng.cfm
There are a lot of questions about how people afford their places. I'll post my experience - hopefully some others will post theirs. Just straight facts - I like to see anecdotal situations.
  • Rented a 2 bedroom apartment for 5 years paying $500/month with a roommate right out of university.
  • At the time I was making about $55k a year which grew to $95k a year over the next 5 years.
  • In that time period, I saved enough to put 40% down (about $140k) on a 1 bedroom condo near Brentwood - my monthly mortgage payments are just under $1000 a month.
  • Fast forward 4 years, still in the same condo, got married in that time frame. I'm now at about $120k a year (not including spouse's income) while trying my hardest not to subscribe to lifestyle inflation and still saving like a boss. While I'm in the 1% from your stats above, certainly don't feel like it, based on the immense struggle that we've been having to find a larger space to think about raising a family.

There is a serious problem here when I see myself and people my age (early 30s) competing for million dollar townhomes. There is something wrong here and while I used to read articles about people vacating Vancouver for cheaper living elsewhere and think that they would regret it, now I'm wondering if they knew something I didn't.

It's not a coincidence schools are closing all over the lower mainland.
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Old 04-08-2016, 04:16 PM   #5628
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There is a serious problem here when I see myself and people my age (early 30s) competing for million dollar townhomes. There is something wrong here and while I used to read articles about people vacating Vancouver for cheaper living elsewhere and think that they would regret it, now I'm wondering if they knew something I didn't.

It's not a coincidence schools are closing all over the lower mainland.
This is what absolutely pisses me off. Courtesy of various levels of politicians, Vancouver is selling out the city's future in exchange for a nice fancy facade. Some of the boomers are taking their windfall with them through retirement and perhaps even to their grave, but that leaves the rest of us in our family starting years completely out in the bushes.
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Old 04-08-2016, 05:53 PM   #5629
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I don't know if it's selling out as much as the fear of action. The problem is more complex than simply blaming government, the banks, or foreign money.

From the municipal perspective, city governments can only control property taxes and zoning. Most cities, other than the City of Vancouver, have pursued aggressive rezoning policies to create more housing. This has upset many people, but most notably, those in the City of Vancouver who fear towers, gentrification, the loss of commercial/industrial land, etc. However, even if you can get zoning for multi-family approved, the problem is that land anywhere in the Lower Mainland is expensive, so you can't expect developers to build product that is cheap out of the goodness of their hearts. Municipal governments cannot collect data on the nationality of buyers so they cannot charge higher taxes to non-residents.

The provincial government has a few more tools at its disposal, including the ability to collect data on real estate activity and infrastructure money for things like social housing. However, the provincial government is probably reluctant to make big changes because real estate is a big generator of economic activity. Corporate taxes are low and so are personal income taxes and people want the tax regime in this province to stay that way. Data collection doesn't cost a lot of money, but it may reveal some things which would be politically dangerous.

The federal government has other tools - immigration policy, regulation of the banking industry and financial transactions, tax policy, and agencies which are involved in housing such as CHMC. However, from the federal perspective, it's difficult to make decisions that are targeted at one or two parts of the country. Other real estate markets in Canada are not experiencing the same run-up in prices as Vancouver and to a lesser extent, Toronto. Other areas, such as immigration, are hugely political. The federal government could decide to invest in social housing again, but it must do so for the entire country. This will come at a huge cost to the taxpayer, given the other demands on taxpayer dollars for other social programs such as health care and education.

There are huge political risks if one or more levels of government collude and use any number of their tools at their disposal to slow down or facilitate a decline in the housing market. There's lots of foreign money floating around in the local market, but what about those who have over-leveraged to get in? Should these people be punished, particularly when a market decline is the result of government/political action? It's easy to say as a disenfranchised millennial, "Screw those who over-leveraged and made poor decisions" but politicians don't react until the stakes are high enough. The reality is is that people who have assets tend to vote and tend to have the money to lobby governments. The people who have assets and have the most to lose are not upset... yet.
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Old 04-09-2016, 01:33 AM   #5630
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Originally Posted by IGTBAR View Post
There are a lot of questions about how people afford their places. I'll post my experience - hopefully some others will post theirs. Just straight facts - I like to see anecdotal situations.
  • Rented a 2 bedroom apartment for 5 years paying $500/month with a roommate right out of university.
  • At the time I was making about $55k a year which grew to $95k a year over the next 5 years.
  • In that time period, I saved enough to put 40% down (about $140k) on a 1 bedroom condo near Brentwood - my monthly mortgage payments are just under $1000 a month.
  • Fast forward 4 years, still in the same condo, got married in that time frame. I'm now at about $120k a year (not including spouse's income) while trying my hardest not to subscribe to lifestyle inflation and still saving like a boss. While I'm in the 1% from your stats above, certainly don't feel like it, based on the immense struggle that we've been having to find a larger space to think about raising a family.

There is a serious problem here when I see myself and people my age (early 30s) competing for million dollar townhomes. There is something wrong here and while I used to read articles about people vacating Vancouver for cheaper living elsewhere and think that they would regret it, now I'm wondering if they knew something I didn't.

It's not a coincidence schools are closing all over the lower mainland.
I remember some great advice when I was a articling student - "when you've got your designations, live in the same apartment, drive the same car, and have the same lifestyle as when you were articling, you will be rich."

as you say, 30 somethings are buying multi million dollar houses on sub $100K incomes
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Old 04-09-2016, 02:15 AM   #5631
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Tricks of the trade: Inside a B.C. real estate firm that has home sellers crying foul


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Ze Yu Wu leaves Richmond-based New Coast Realty April 4, 2016. Although he runs the company, Mr. Wu is not a real-estate agent or managing broker and is not bound by provincial laws governing individual licensees.
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It is Wednesday night in Burnaby. Real-estate agents and sales teams are gathered in a well-lit office training room. The group, some of them young and hungry to make their mark in the bracing property trade on the Lower Mainland, is there to learn a thing or two from the boss.

The boss is Ze Yu Wu, owner of one of the fastest-growing new brokerages in the Vancouver area, New Coast Realty, which boasts 445 agents and hundreds of millions in sales. It is an informal training session to give some of his new and top performers an edge. He suggests his sales teams listen up, take notes: These tips will help them, and the firm, make more money.

In this October session, one main theme is straightforward: How to move properties briskly by talking clients into selling their houses for less than they want.

“We should sell the house fast and buy the house fast,” Mr. Wu tells them at one point during the evening, underscoring the lucrative nature of speed in a commission-driven business. They joke and chat with him on how to do that.

Mr. Wu offers this advice: “You must consider your own interests.”

Some of his suggestions in the course of the night, however, tread the razor-edge between shrewd salesmanship and deception. One tip he drops casually is how to persuade clients – by lying to them – that the best offer they will get is the first one.

“It is only a saying to the homeowner, but actually, it’s not true,” Mr. Wu says. “The first offer will never be the best offer, I am sure about this. But you have to say the first offer is the best offer.”

(Listen to raw audio of a New Coast Realty training session.)

Mr. Wu is not a licensed real-estate agent or managing broker. So although he runs the company, he is not bound by provincial laws governing individual licensees, unlike the teams he is coaching, who are supposed to act in their clients’ interests or risk disciplinary action.

He is in the club, though, of insiders making millions in Vancouver’s roaring property market. As prices tick ever upward, prompting a national debate over the causes of the phenomenon, the industry is under intense scrutiny after revelations of shady dealing. As a result of a Globe and Mail investigation into the practice of shadow flipping, for instance, B.C. Premier Christy Clark is promising tougher penalties for dodgy operators. An advisory group is trying to come up with deterrents for a list of questionable practices by June.

Mr. Wu, 42, is a permanent resident who moved here from China a decade ago. He does not speak English, and most of his staff speak Mandarin, so he explains his techniques in that language.

The Globe obtained an audio recording of Mr. Wu’s training session, held in Burnaby, B.C., on Oct. 14, 2015. It reveals the company owner teaching agents techniques to persuade clients to sell quickly, for less than their home could be worth.

“You must print out the lowest prices in the neighbourhood to show to the homeowner,” he says during the session. (The Globe translated the recording, and had it reviewed by a second Mandarin speaker who works in the real-estate industry.) “It is very critical to print out low sale prices in the neighbourhood.”

Several agents who have left New Coast told The Globe their former boss’s ideal business model is to sell client properties quickly to investors or speculators who are also New Coast clients, which maximizes the firm’s commissions. The ultimate goal, they say, is to have those investor clients hire them again to flip the properties for higher prices.

New Coast denies that through its lawyer, Simon Coval: “We are instructed that it seeks to obtain the best price for its clients.”

However, Mr. Wu told the agents in the session: “If the homeowner still insists on a high price and the deal cannot be closed, we agents have to keep travelling around and wasting time. We would keep burning the gas and no one will reimburse you for that. Our company will not reimburse you.”

Mr. Wu declined several requests from The Globe for an interview. Mr. Coval said his client’s words are being taken out of context.

“New Coast points out that the discussion included, for example, Mr. Wu stating … that the most important thing to remember is for agents to be sure not to do anything illegal or non-compliant and that respecting the requirements of their professional license is more important than money,” Mr. Coval said in a statement.

In the training session, Mr. Wu does warn agents to be mindful of their obligations. After about 40 minutes of coaching, he says: “Be careful. First of all, protect your licence, before you do anything else.” And again: “Be sure not to break the rules. Under this principle, you can take other actions.”

He goes on: “No matter how much money the deal is worth, even if the deal is right in front of you, don’t look at it. It will affect the licence.”

Some real-estate agents who have attended Mr. Wu’s sessions say the tactics make them uncomfortable, despite the warnings.

“Sometimes the owner wanted us to do something illegal to make more money,” agent John Zhou told The Globe. (He now works for a competitor and claims New Coast owes him $45,000 in commissions.)

“Of course, people trust the classes they are getting at the brokerage,” said Chris Chen, another licensee who left for the same competitor. “What I can remember, a lot of it sounded unethical.”

Real-estate licensees know, under B.C.’s Real Estate Services Act, it is their fiduciary duty to put clients’ interests first. It is illegal for them to deceive or hold back information.

New Coast has an unusually large stake in what agents earn. Unlike other brokerage firms, it takes a 50 per cent cut of team members’ commissions. Several people in the industry say most firms take much less, instead charging the agents fees for services.

During the session, Mr. Wu tells agents their goal is to persuade sellers to reduce their expectations and their prices. “In brief, whatever you are saying, the homeowner should think: Yes, it makes sense. The homeowners feel every word I am telling them makes sense. Then you can suppress homeowner’s bottom price.”

Several people who have worked for Mr. Wu say he often encourages agents to “double-end” their deals. That practice, in which the same agent or brokerage team represents both seller and buyer, is legal in B.C. However, because of potential conflicts, some firms do not allow it, according to disciplinary records from the Real Estate Council of B.C.

One competitor recalled a double-ended deal in which he believes he saw those conflicts play out.

In January, the agent told The Globe, he contacted New Coast agent Tracy Niu about a property she had listed that day on behalf of a seller. He was too late; the house had sold. One of Ms. Niu’s other clients – a buyer – had already snapped it up. Two days later, the agent said, Ms. Niu called him back and offered to flip the property to his client for $135,000 more than what her own client sold for.

Deals like this are done at the seller’s expense, said the agent, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he could face discipline by the Real Estate Board for publicly questioning a fellow member. “The agent told us it was none of the seller’s business. … How greedy can you get?”

MLS records confirm that Ms. Niu represented both seller and buyer in the sale. New Coast, through its lawyer, denied that Ms. Niu offered the property to the agent at a higher price.

New Coast agents represented both buyer and seller in one out of five transactions in the past two years, according to internal figures from the Real Estate Board. Other brokerages’ ratios are significantly lower. For example, two other new firms double-end deals 5 and 6 per cent of the time.

In some New Coast deals, the listing agent persuaded the seller to pay a bonus – $10,000 to $50,000 extra – to the buyer’s agent. New Coast and the agent team each take half of the commission and the bonus.

Between June and November of last year, according to sales figures, 13 of 21 double-ended New Coast deals closed for less than the seller initially wanted. Six of those clients who sold for less than list also paid bonuses.

Several real-estate agents told The Globe that Vancouver-area sellers usually get more than asking these days, not less. And in a hot market, they said, there is rarely a need to pay agents a bonus.

“They get the seller to list for a low price and agree to pay a bonus. Then they mislead buyers’ agents on how many offers there are. Then they sell to a New Coast client anyway,” said one competing agent who has been involved in several deals with New Coast.

Because New Coast agents prefer to deal with agents in their firm, outside agents feel shut out.

“This actually drives up prices, because outside [agents] have to offer way over market price just to get in on these deals.”

In the training session, Mr. Wu suggests another trick to make even more money on a deal: persuade the client to pay a bonus to the buying agent, then take a cut for yourself.

After adding the bonus, Mr. Wu tells the room, apologize to the other agent: “Sorry, you can have half and I’ll have the other half.”

He sounds a note of caution to his teams, however.

“At this time, if you are dealing with other companies, be careful with issues that could violate the rules. If the other agent is from our team, it can be easily arranged, right? Bonus is so awesome.”

New Coast’s lawyer, Mr. Coval, said the “context of this remark is a response to a question about attracting a buyer to a client’s property by offering higher commissions.”

The Globe spoke with one recent New Coast client who is convinced his agent was “working both sides” and cost him more than a quarter of a million dollars. “It makes me feel cheated,” Sukhjit Bassi said. “They rushed me into this deal – and that cost me money.”

According to Mr. Bassi, New Coast agent Sandra Li persuaded him two days before Christmas to list his Richmond house for $1.27-million – a low price – a tactic used to generate interest, with the aim of drawing multiple offers and fetching a higher price.

The next day – before showing his home to any prospective buyers – she sent an offer from a numbered company for $1.4-million. He countered for $1.5-million. They made a deal.

“Although the [upcoming] open house was cancelled, a whole bunch of people still showed up,” Mr. Bassi said. He said he received an angry voice mail from a buyer who was willing to pay more.

Records from other sales show the director of the numbered company is a speculator and former agent who has done other deals through Ms. Li. He had no agent representing him. Mr. Bassi said the buyer came to view the house later, along with Ms. Li’s assistant and an unrelated couple.

“I found it strange,” Mr. Bassi recalled: “‘Okay, I see the buyer. But who are these people?’”

Mr. Bassi said Ms. Li then sent him a text message asking detailed questions about his house, which he found odd because it was already sold. Mr. Bassi later discovered the buyer had assigned the contract to the unidentified couple for $100,000 more. None of that money went to Mr. Bassi. (Contract assignment, also known as shadow flipping, is when a buyer sells a property quickly to another buyer before the deal with the initial seller closes.)

He believes his own agent, Ms. Li, arranged the flip, although another former New Coast agent’s name is on the paperwork. The kicker, he told The Globe, was when his neighbour sold his “identical” house for $300,000 more than Mr. Bassi received.

“This is when I realized I had been duped. … I didn’t get market value for my house,” he said.

Through their lawyer, New Coast and Ms. Li said they had no idea their client’s house was flipped until The Globe brought it up. (Mr. Bassi raised the matter with Ms. Li in February, according to e-mails viewed by The Globe and Mail.) Mr. Bassi also recorded a conversation in which Ms. Li’s assistant tells him “everyone knows” about the flip.

Real Estate Board figures show New Coast bought and sold more than a billion dollars in property last year – and that does not include private and pre-sale deals outside the Multiple Listings Service.

A 2014 article in New Coast’s bilingual publication talks about selling to Chinese citizens who want a “safe house for their wealth.”

“The already lively real estate market in Vancouver is further taking giant leaps forward as a result of the Chinese anti-corruption policies,” the article says.

“Experts predict that with the increasing strictness of the anti-corruption policies in China it will continue to cause cash flow into the Vancouver housing market. Tapping into the patterns of these trends will help both buyers and sellers make the right and easy choice.”

Mr. Wu and his wife, Hui Ping Huang, are the sole directors of the corporation that founded New Coast in 2012. Bill Messer, the managing broker who helped them set up the firm, says it had “multi-millionaire” backers from China. Mr. Messer says he quit after a year over what he considered to be unethical practices.

“There is hundreds of millions of dollars into this scam,” Mr. Messer said. “The managing broker is responsible for everything that goes on in that company, if [an agent] does anything wrong. That is why I got out.”

Managing brokers are accountable for their brokerage firms’ activities and can lose their licences over infractions.

In an interview, the Real Estate Council of B.C. said there could be penalties for a brokerage found to have engaged in deceptive dealing or in breach of fiduciary duties.

“It is completely unacceptable to act contrary to a seller’s interest. It is a fundamental breach of our legislation to be deceptive in any way in dealing with our clients,” said Maureen Coleman, professional standards adviser.

Ms. Coleman said New Coast managing broker Josh Rosenberg – who was at Mr. Wu’s session in October, according to New Coast’s lawyer, but speaks only some Mandarin – should have intervened if Mr. Wu crossed any ethical lines.

“We would expect that he would ... not permit his licensees to participate in any sort of instruction that would bring them into non-compliance,” she said.

The council, she said, will investigate.

Given that Mr. Wu does not have a real-estate licence, the council cannot take any action against him, unless there are financial discrepancies or other infractions unrelated to training. (The Globe and Mail found no evidence of such infractions.)

In a statement on Friday, Mr. Coval said New Coast met with the council on Thursday and was fully co-operative. The lawyer reiterated the company’s position that Mr. Wu’s remarks were being taken out of context.

The Globe talked to several people who say they have raised concerns about Mr. Wu’s company with the council before, but felt ignored. Another former New Coast managing broker, who requested anonymity, said he advised the regulator when he quit the company in 2015.

“My reasons for my resignation from New Coast Realty are numerous,” he wrote in an e-mail to the council. “They continue to be non-compliant with both the Real Estate Council and the Real Estate Board.”

No one got back to him, he said.

He was annoyed, but not surprised: “They are supposed to protect the public, and they don’t.”

The former managing broker said a lack of consequences sends the wrong message to those who don’t play by the rules. He alleges he had warned Mr. Wu in the past that New Coast was running afoul of the council and the board, to no avail.

When you can get away with it, he said, “It’s sort of like, ‘I have the licence to do whatever I want.’”

A managing broker from a competing firm shared e-mails he sent to the council and the board, dating back three years, also raising red flags about New Coast. He said he called Ms. Coleman, urging her to investigate, but gave up in frustration.

Mr. Messer said he also raised his concerns to the council when he quit in 2013.

“The Real Estate Council encouraged me to get out of [the company],” he said.

New Coast challenged these accounts. In a statement, Mr. Coval said: “We are instructed that it does not have Managing Brokers who have departed in such circumstances.”

Wendy Yang is a top-tier real-estate agent who just left New Coast to work for the competition in February. She alleges the brokerage owes her $200,000 in unpaid commissions. In court filings, the company alleges she engaged in fraudulent conduct by altering her listings so she could take them with her when she left. The matter has not been settled.

In an interview, Ms. Yang said Mr. Wu told her he is helping an investor from China buy $50-million worth of Vancouver-area homes quickly – with the intent of flipping them for a profit, using his company’s agents.

“[The investor] would make $200,000 to $300,000 for the flip on every property,” Ms. Yang said. “They are buying a lot of houses. One night on Mr. Wu’s table, I saw more than 10 property information sheets there.”

Ms. Yang said Mr. Wu has his sights set on the condo market next: “That is the real gold.”

Mr. Wu’s lawyer insisted he “is not working on any such thing.”

Don Stutt suspects a shadowy deal is playing out with the Richmond home he and his wife just sold. He said that, in December, the couple was given “a song and dance” by New Coast real-estate agent Claire Li, who persuaded them to sell – just hours after their house was listed – to her client.

The Stutts made a quick deal through their own agent for almost $1.5-million, and are happy with the price.

They said they were told the buyer planned to move into the house, but was flying back to Asia the next day. “That’s why the bid was only good until midnight,” Mr. Stutt said.

The buyer, he was told, had lost out on other properties. “He didn’t want to be in a bidding war and lose.”

As the Stutts were packing up their belongings, the buyer’s agent e-mailed asking if New Coast could host an open house because she wanted to find a new buyer to assign the sales contract to. The Stutts, who were still living in the house, refused.

“You want to have an open house? You bought the house [quickly] because you didn’t want an open house.” Mr. Stutt recalled. “There’s no remuneration for me – and it stunk.”

The buyer, it turned out, was actually a director of New Coast Holdings Ltd: Ms. Huang, whose home is in Richmond, B.C., not Asia. In the end, before closing, Ms. Huang assigned the contract and added another buyer’s name to hers.

Just four days after that deal closed, she and her co-owner listed the house again. The Stutts’ former home is now for sale, by New Coast, for nearly $400,000 more than what they sold it for just four months ago.

“Truth is always stranger than fiction,” Mr. Stutt said. “I suspected I was being sold a bill of goods from Day One.”

Through its lawyer, New Coast said Ms. Huang had second thoughts about the purchase. “Instead of backing out she completed the purchase with a friend.” The statement did not address Mr. Stutt’s claim that he was deceived.

Back at Mr. Wu’s fall training session, he offers agents suggestions on how to persuade homeowners their house is worth less than they think it is.

For a home in Richmond, for instance, he suggests agents warn sellers that wealthy buyers are afraid of earthquakes and tsunamis. “This reason is very powerful,” he says.

(On its website, the City of Richmond advises that the risk of tsunamis is not significant, despite myths to the contrary.)

Mr. Wu also offers a tip for selling in Vancouver’s west side: “Say that the houses in this area are too expensive, so you can suppress the seller’s bottom price. ...

“If it’s a house by the road, say don’t buy a house by the road next time; if there is a ditch in front of the house, say don’t buy a house behind a ditch or electricity pole next time; if the house is quite narrow, say don’t buy a narrow house next time, it doesn’t look grand.”

He also suggests clients be led to believe that Chinese buyers’ sources of money are drying up, for various reasons – all of them plausible and intended to instill a sense of urgency to the transaction.

The Chinese stock market is down: “How do people have the money to buy the house?”

China is tightening its controls on outflows of cash: “People want to buy the house, but they can’t transfer the money to Canada.”

Later in the session, Mr. Wu reminds his staff that a deal benefits both agent and seller, describing a successful transaction as a virtuous circle.

“If you sell the house, you are doing him a favour. This offer is a good offer. Once the house is sold, there is tax. Then you are making contribution to the society. You are helping the client with an investment. And you are making contribution to society. We need to raise our own family, we also need to take the responsibility of society.”

With a report from Daisy Xiong

ktomlinson@globeandmail.com

Tricks of the trade: Inside a B.C. real estate firm that has home sellers crying foul - The Globe and Mail
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Old 04-09-2016, 02:19 AM   #5632
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It's that they don't want to give up the "Kits" lifestyle - whatever that is. I get it - 49th Parallel Roasters is pretty damn good coffee and Lucky Doughnuts are probably my favourite, but one could always buy the coffee in bags and brew it at home in one's Saeco Automatic.
i agree

many of the recent breakup letters to Vancouver I see on social media have similar flaws

mediocre paying/non-steady jobs (mostly freelance creatives), requires the seawall and complains of bad coffee.

most common theme? They were not even raised in this city. You can't demand this town's best if you're transplant not in the top bracket. If I skipped town and moved to a desirable place, I certainly wouldn't expect to sustain in the best location long term unless I had a cushy position.
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Old 04-09-2016, 08:43 AM   #5634
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You'd think that article and the investigative journalism done for it would almost be enough to shut them down
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Old 04-09-2016, 08:49 AM   #5635
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My issue with shadow flipping: sellers not taking accountability and showing sellers remorse in some cases months after the fact. Sales people exist, period, in all areas of life. Some are shady, fact of life. If a sales guy can convince you to list the place you live in and find you a selling price that YOU agree to, that should be where it ends. It shouldn't matter that the property is flipped for double the next day; that's on the seller for not knowing the market or the buyer for over paying. Just my opinion on all these home owners crying foul after the fact.

On an slightly unrelated note since sellers are obviously in the driver's seat now. I wonder if we will ever see 'subject to buy' clauses on contracts. Seller has the right to terminate the contract if unable to buy another home within a set time. Not too different in principle to subject to sales which for all intents and purposes no longer exist. Sellers will likely have to leave some cash on the table but get the piece of mind they won't get priced out after selling like what has been happening the last 1-2 years
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Old 04-09-2016, 10:01 AM   #5636
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You cant exactly say that the seller should take accountability because they don't know the market. Not everyone follows or is educated enough in the real estate market. Especially a market like Vancouver, People pay for services of a real estate agent and they get rewarded handsomely so that the seller can get maximum return. Not so that the seller agrees to certain price point and the agent then goes and flips it for half a million more the next day.

I understand there are shady people, salesman, etc. and ripping a few thousand here or 10 thousand off there is no big deal in the big picture. But $100,000+ is absolutly wrong in my eyes.

What if it was shadow flipping was done on a old couple in thier 80's looking to sell their 1 and only bungalow house they ever lived in? Would it be their fault for not constantly following the real estate market?
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Old 04-09-2016, 10:34 AM   #5637
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if i was going to sell right now, i'd tell the RE agent what I want to list for. I dont care what the market is telling him/her, i'd tell them you list at my price, and we go from there or we dont list at all.
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Old 04-09-2016, 10:51 AM   #5638
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Old 04-09-2016, 11:15 AM   #5639
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if i was going to sell right now, i'd tell the RE agent what I want to list for. I dont care what the market is telling him/her, i'd tell them you list at my price, and we go from there or we dont list at all.
Pretty much this. Literally takes all of 30 minutes on the mls to get a good ballpark for what your place is worth. That's what I did when I sold my condo, I had a selling price I needed, and one I wanted. Ended up getting the price I wanted, in just over a week. Which isn't bad for a cheap 1bdr condo.
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Old 04-09-2016, 12:05 PM   #5640
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On an slightly unrelated note since sellers are obviously in the driver's seat now. I wonder if we will ever see 'subject to buy' clauses on contracts. Seller has the right to terminate the contract if unable to buy another home within a set time. Not too different in principle to subject to sales which for all intents and purposes no longer exist. Sellers will likely have to leave some cash on the table but get the piece of mind they won't get priced out after selling like what has been happening the last 1-2 years
In this market, you have to buy before you sell. It's way harder to win bidding wars than it is to sell your place. Ironically, when we bought our last property, instead of buying, then selling, the sellers asked for a long possession date, so we waited close to 11 weeks to take over. They're lucky they were able to find a place in that time, otherwise, they would've had to find temporary accommodations, which is a major PITA.
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Old 04-09-2016, 12:14 PM   #5641
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a realtor is a tool to be used. they do not dictate at what price or when your house sells, you do (well, market dictates price range, but you get my point).

most people don't seem to realize this. they also miss the conflict of interest when realtor represents both sides.

studies show that realtors sell their houses in a longer time than those of their clients, and for more... self interest rules in this industry.
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Old 04-09-2016, 03:45 PM   #5642
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I live in the river district area and Polygon released prices today for their latest development R+R. 50% sold within a couple hours as there were people camping outside since Tuesday. Surprisingly the SF pricing is still in Mid $500-Low $600. Also surprising is the sales manager told me a lot of the neighboring residents are buying up these presales.

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A close friend just purchased a house with her husband. Doubt they make 6 figures each, but probably pretty close (gross). Only way they could afford a relatively decent down payment was to take out a LOC secured by her parents' house. even then the payments are pretty huge. I'm guessing this is how a lot of people whose families aren't super well off are doing it. Makes me cringe to think of using debt to get more debt.

This is how a lot of people purchase second properties. Most banks will lend up to 80% of the equity of the property and this only is beneficial when the mortgage is paid off or a small amount is left (IE $1mil value with a sub $100,000 mortgage). The problem lies within homeowners pushing the limit with a large principle left. (IE $1mil value with an above $500,000)
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Old 04-09-2016, 11:00 PM   #5643
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townhouses and condos in financially viable locations are becoming more and more desirable
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Old 04-10-2016, 07:36 AM   #5644
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townhouses and condos in financially viable locations are becoming more and more desirable
When did you get hired by vancitybuzz?
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Westopher is correct.
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Old 04-10-2016, 11:58 PM   #5646
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The buyer, it turned out, was actually a director of New Coast Holdings Ltd: Ms. Huang, whose home is in Richmond, B.C., not Asia. In the end, before closing, Ms. Huang assigned the contract and added another buyer’s name to hers.
Ms Huang is not only the director but the New Coast Realty owner's wife.



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When did you get hired by vancitybuzz?
I can only tell u this much at this time. positive npv strata dwellings
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Old 04-11-2016, 01:33 AM   #5647
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My issue with shadow flipping: sellers not taking accountability and showing sellers remorse in some cases months after the fact. Sales people exist, period, in all areas of life. Some are shady, fact of life. If a sales guy can convince you to list the place you live in and find you a selling price that YOU agree to, that should be where it ends. It shouldn't matter that the property is flipped for double the next day; that's on the seller for not knowing the market or the buyer for over paying. Just my opinion on all these home owners crying foul after the fact.

On an slightly unrelated note since sellers are obviously in the driver's seat now. I wonder if we will ever see 'subject to buy' clauses on contracts. Seller has the right to terminate the contract if unable to buy another home within a set time. Not too different in principle to subject to sales which for all intents and purposes no longer exist. Sellers will likely have to leave some cash on the table but get the piece of mind they won't get priced out after selling like what has been happening the last 1-2 years

dude if they knew they market, then they technically wouldn't need an agent.

it's like financial trading. your broker is supposed to represent you. because you, the "client", doesn't know as much shit as he's supposed to.

or like, your lawyer stabbing you in the back and making a money deal with the other side.

their JOB is to legally and fairly represent you, and advise you in YOUR interest. lol.

that's the ONLY reason real estate agents exist! if they don't represent clients in a fair manner... people would just fucking buy and sell by themselves!!!

reminds me of dodgy stock brokers in the past... wolf of wallstreet lol.

eventually regulation will come in, but it will take time.

but i wouldn't hate the brokers or agents for this... you gotta hate the enforcers for not enforcing. the players are never broken, only the rules of the game.
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Old 04-11-2016, 09:13 AM   #5648
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didn't see this coming, first nations bought the jericho land in west vancouver.
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Old 04-11-2016, 09:26 AM   #5649
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didn't see this coming, first nations bought the jericho land in west vancouver.
They had an outstanding claim on those lands, so they were able to resolve that claim through the purchase. The claim effectively subsidized their purchase.

You would never see this type of deal on privately-owned, fee simple lands. These were Crown lands that the Crown no longer had use for. The provincial government had two choices - sell the land to the First Nations to resolve their claim, or sell it to a developer. The province and the federal government would likely be involved in future litigation down the road had the province sold the lands to a developer.

I would expect to see 99-year leasehold residential on these lands.
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Old 04-11-2016, 09:34 AM   #5650
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