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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events The off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

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Old 07-29-2016, 07:07 PM   #7401
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It's the domino effect. The people that used to afford Vancouver were outbid by foreign millionaires. That trickles down and pushes everyone out further to the point where I'm competing with people who would normally be buying a place much closer to Vancouver.
But you're not being outbid by foreign buyers. You'd be outbid by locals who have compromised on where they want to live to live the lifestyle they have decided on, compromise would be the key word. You don't want to drive an hour each way to work, fair enough. You don't want a tiny shoe box condo, fair enough. You don't want to pay market value to buy a place that meets your needs, sorry it doesn't work like that.

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but one in ten houses being sold to foreign "investors" isn't peanuts, its the biggest factor bar none.
That's what the media want you to believe, because it makes headlines and gets people all worked up. Sure, there some domino effect as you explained above. The biggest factor bar none are the historically low interest rates, which have been sitting way down here for a loooooong time with no short term meaningful increased planned. Blame your competition for signing up for mortgages that maybe they should not be signing up for, but being cleared for by the brokers. But putting the accountability back on the locals, nobody wants to hear that. It's way easier to blame those other people

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i dont see it happening, but if there was somthing i could get into in whistler for like 250, that would be fuckin sweeeeeet
go splitsies?

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Like I mentioned earlier, I am still planning to get a place next year, and I'm not going to sweat it if the price goes up or down because my plan is to live there at least 10 years until I either want to upgrade or relocate. If I buy and the place gains 60k before I even move in does that make me intelligent? If it goes down 60k before I move in am I dumb? It's neither, and like you said, it doesn't matter if your goal is to live there.
Easy to say now, but if you buy a place, and it drops 60k before you move in, you're going to be pretty pissed.

If you can't afford or don't want to buy in right now, and you can buy in next year with a 60k price increase, something is off there.

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I'm not asking for handouts I'm asking that the government puts it's own people first so prices are affordable for the working middle class. What good does millionaires from other countries buying a house and not living in them do for us? Oh you get some tax money, great, at the expense of voters getting the shaft.
We need to look at the big picture, not just housing and home pricing. How many more high end cars do you see on the road today compared to 10 years ago? High school kids drive around in 'beater' G35's nowadays compared to Civics and Corollas from the 80's. Where do you think people go to buy these cars? Who do you think services and fixes these cars? The same applies to many 'industries' outside automotive.

Hey, I totally get where you're coming from, you should be able to buy something nicer and closer than what you realistically can right now. But the government having an influx of foreign money in many ways does help put it's people first, you just need to look a bit deeper than what the headline news is telling you. Because these foreigners may be the source of livelihood for many locals who are barely making ends meet right now, ever think about it that way?
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Old 07-29-2016, 07:37 PM   #7402
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Christy Clark has figured out how to stay in office - penalize the foreign buyers and RE industry!

Personally, I love it, so many butt-hurt realtors meow

Serious note though, I wonder two things
- how will a potential downturn/slow down in foreign ownership affect the overall economy of the GVA (Don't expect nearly as much residential construction obviously, that's a lot of jobs)
- how much more will she tighten the screws to stay in office, very popular move with 9/10 Vancouverites favouring this new tax

+ the latest GDP numbers suggest Canada is most certainly heading for a recession.

I know this thread is totally divided, and this is strictly an opinion, but I think the show is over, by October 2016 there will be a clear slump in home sales which correlates to a drop in prices, and I'm willing to be it's significant, at least -5%.
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Old 07-29-2016, 09:30 PM   #7403
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Foreign buyers tax violates NAFTA: lawyer - NEWS 1130


Thoughts?
I thought nafta is all about import and export goods
Not realesate investments...
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Old 07-29-2016, 09:45 PM   #7404
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I'm surprised, but not like there isn't a simple solution in that to exempting Mexicans and Americans from the tax.
As I've said before though I'd love it if the tax extended to Canadians buying multiple homes. Maybe not 2 as I totally understand the family motives that can lead to those purchases, like punkwax made a great example about, but 3,4,5,10 whatever, there has to be a limit set to prevent the widening income gap, because an insane amount of it is based on old money and real estate.

Oh and also. We moved into our new home today, one year exactly from our first deposit date. Me and my wife did the whole move by ourselves, the dog is happy and we spent the evening wandering our new neighbourhood. Couldn't be happier. Will post pics when we get it set up.
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Old 07-29-2016, 10:15 PM   #7405
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Congrats! Long close or did you do some reno's first?

Edit - or pre-sale?
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Old 07-29-2016, 10:16 PM   #7406
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Bought my condo in Surrey for 190k in 2008. Currently worth 180k, and it's not in Whalley.

Food for thought.
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Old 07-29-2016, 10:21 PM   #7407
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Fliptuner it was a presale. We looked in kits forever for something in our price range and nothing jumped out as being the right fit. I went to north Van to buy some work shoes one day and we decided to check out a show suite since we were bored. I was blown away but the value in comparison to kits for us. It was a good 25-30% less price wise. Close to snowboarding which is the biggest draw.
I went to the bank and grabbed a deposit for it the next day haha.
It wasn't near the pandemonium it is now. We actually got 10k of the list price as they were trying to push them a bit.
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Old 07-29-2016, 10:27 PM   #7408
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CRA highlights compliance risks in the real estate segment
29 Jul 2016


CRA highlights compliance risks in the real estate segment

In response to the consistent growth in the country’s hottest housing markets, the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) has begun taking steps in ensuring tax compliance, a development that has uncovered various risk factors in the real estate segment.

In a contribution piece for the Financial Post, Jamie Golombek of the CIBC Wealth Strategies Group in Toronto outlined the compliance risks recently identified by the CRA:

Unreported capital gains on property sales

Golombek noted that taxpayers can correct their tax returns online in case they were not able to report their gains over the past year.

“The CRA also reminds us that if you suspect that someone you know may not have reported income or paid GST/HST on a real estate (or any other) transaction, you can tip them off, anonymously, via the CRA’s National Leads Centre,” Golombek added.

Unreported GST/HST on sales of new/renovated homes

“[The] builder of a new or ‘substantially renovated home’ must charge and collect GST/HST when the home is sold,” Golombek wrote.

Property flipping

The CRA recently found that many property flips are reported incorrectly, or are not even reported at all, for tax purposes. The agency emphasized that profits from flipping are considered as business income, and hence fully taxable.

“While real estate flipping isn’t illegal, the money made on real estate flips, including any real estate commissions and appreciation in value, must be reported to the CRA,” Golombek said.

Questionable sources of funding

Discrepancies between the lifestyles of a growing number of home owners and their reported incomes have led the CRA to identify this development as a pressing issue.

“The [primary] concern identified by the CRA is taxpayers who buy a property with funds that may never have been taxed, whether in Canada or abroad. For example, a large down payment on a home may indicate that the purchaser has unreported income, either earned from legal or illegal sources,” Golombek explained.
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Old 07-29-2016, 10:45 PM   #7409
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I know this thread is totally divided, and this is strictly an opinion, but I think the show is over, by October 2016 there will be a clear slump in home sales which correlates to a drop in prices, and I'm willing to be it's significant, at least -5%.
just wondering if that is a typo? or do you think 5% drop is a significant drop with our prices at what they are?

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Bought my condo in Surrey for 190k in 2008. Currently worth 180k, and it's not in Whalley.

Food for thought.
I put a deposit on a new build 3-4 years ago south Vancouver for $285k and it just completed. I can probably sell it for $400k in todays market. Instead, its being rented out for $1500/month. 1bed 1bath no parking

Just another food for thought

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Old 07-29-2016, 11:06 PM   #7410
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Bought my condo in Surrey for 190k in 2008. Currently worth 180k, and it's not in Whalley.

Food for thought.
sounds like the same scenario i had.. although we both purchased in one of the worst times of the last 20 years lol..
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Old 07-29-2016, 11:28 PM   #7411
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Met someone today..who mentioned that they put thr house for sale a couple of weeks ago..had a offer ...but buyer backed out.. Thinking that he might as well hold off till the market crashes due to this new law....even if it might not make a dent to the foreign buyers..it is making people in the market..looking, to think it..will..and they should just hold of..
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Old 07-29-2016, 11:38 PM   #7412
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Don't Even Think About Taxing Foreign Buyers In Toronto
Posted: 07/29/2016 11:06 am EDT Updated: 07/29/2016 12:59 pm EDT


Don't Even Think About Taxing Foreign Buyers In Toronto$|$YPNextHome



Now that B.C. has introduced a 15-per-cent foreign buyers' tax intended to calm real estate purchases by non-Canadian residents, speculation is rampant that similar legislation is on its way to Ontario -- or more specifically, Toronto.
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Ontario Finance Minister Charles Sousa, part of the committee announced by Federal Finance Minister Bill Morneau in June to look for ways to improve housing affordability in Canada's hottest markets, has said he will be looking at the effectiveness of B.C.'s tax as a possible measure to address eroding affordability in Toronto.

And Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has repeated that tackling affordable housing is on his agenda.

But like their counterparts in Vancouver, realtors in Toronto want nothing to do with such action.

"I don't know there was a need for it in Vancouver, as their market was already softening for the past three months," Richard Silver, senior vice president, sales, Sotheby's International Realty Canada, told YPNextHome. "If you were to do this in Toronto, people would move to the suburbs even more. We need to keep an eye on what will happen in Vancouver as it may not solve the problem but create others. What happens to the ancillary industries if the building market shuts down? My concern is that this was a knee-jerk reaction for a political agenda with not enough research."

"Very little good ever comes from knee-jerk political involvement in any marketplace. This 'solution' could cause a large number of unforeseen issues."

The Toronto Real Estate Board (TREB) cautions that the Ontario government should review the issue of foreign purchasers in depth before making any policy decisions.

"Government policy and tax decisions should be made in an informed manner," Jason Mercer, TREB's director, market analysis. "Currently, there is a lack of data on the rate of foreign ownership of real estate in Ontario," he says.

"Realtors are one of the best sources of information on real estate market conditions, and TREB is working to contribute to the discussion on this issue."

TREB will be surveying its members in the fall with regard to foreign buyers, and releasing the results of this publicly, Mercer says. "This data could be extremely valuable to the Ontario government and the federal working group before they make any policy decisions with regard to foreign buyers of real estate."

"Knee-jerk" is also how the realty industry in Vancouver feels about the B.C. government's action.

"Housing affordability concerns all of us who live in the region," says the Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver. "Implementing a new real estate tax, however, with just eight days' notice and no consultation with the professionals who serve home buyers and sellers every day needlessly injects uncertainty into the market."
Silver foresees similar challenges in Toronto, should a foreign buyers' tax be implemented there.

"There could be major repercussion to builders who have sold units in buildings to offshore buyers, who will now have to pay 15 per cent more than they agreed upon. You could have floors of buildings walking from their deposits rather than closing," says Silver.

"Very little good ever comes from knee-jerk political involvement in any marketplace. This 'solution' could cause a large number of unforeseen issues, and I don't think enough research was done before implementing."

Moreover, "targeting certain groups as unwelcome homebuyers is neither good for our communities nor the home building industry," Katherine Perrott, urban planner and PhD candidate, Department of Geography and Planning, University of Toronto told YPNextHome.

More creative, all-encompassing solutions should be considered, she says. "It has become commonplace to regard housing as a wealth-generating investment in the GTA, where homeowners have been able to downsize or cash out of the market at great profit. Real estate speculation, by both domestic and international purchasers, compounds price growth where housing is an investment vehicle. Increasing housing prices in the GTA, Vancouver and other cities are presenting a challenge to the Canadian ideal of homeownership and the housing and mortgage systems as we know them," adds Perrott.

"Instead of a 'foreign' buyer tax, a better alternative would be directing public funding, and the creativity of planners and housing industry professionals to develop innovative and affordable housing types and ownership models that meet the needs for housing-as-shelter, over and above housing-as-investment."

TREB also says that while foreign buyers may be contributing to the overall pool of buyers in the GTA and Ontario on a broad basis, the demand side of the price growth equation should not be considered in a vacuum. In particular, provincial and municipal land-use and tax policies that may be suppressing the supply of housing for sale could be having a very significant impact on the GTA market.
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Old 07-29-2016, 11:50 PM   #7413
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It's crazy how doctors (physician, MDs) can't even fight back Chinese investors' big money.

Chilliwack doctor worried he?s being priced out of Metro Vancouver housing market | Globalnews.ca

Interestingly enough though, if you look at comment section, some people aren't as frustrated about foreign investors taking over Canada. I mean, some comments don't seem to simply attack foreign investors.

"Because in Canada we are all babies and everything must be so easy. Wake up, this is a third world country, get used to third world problems."
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Old 07-30-2016, 01:04 AM   #7414
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good points but he sounds pretty entitled for someone who's still training

then again he'll be paying some of the highest income tax so physicians voice should definitely be taken more seriously

not saying working class shouldn't be heard but it was nice getting a perspective of a high-income earner to-be
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Old 07-30-2016, 01:44 AM   #7415
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How much is this guy making?
so he graduated last year, been working for year or less, and frustrated he can't afford a house?
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Old 07-30-2016, 02:06 AM   #7416
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^hes just working two days a week at a walk in
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Old 07-30-2016, 02:09 AM   #7417
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good points but he sounds pretty entitled for someone who's still training

then again he'll be paying some of the highest income tax so physicians voice should definitely be taken more seriously

not saying working class shouldn't be heard but it was nice getting a perspective of a high-income earner to-be
Maybe he will get the hell out of Canada.

It's called "BRAIN DRAIN"

Justin Trudeau is all about middle class.
The problem with his middle class favoritism is that any high class people will get the hell out of Canada.

Top level CEOs and corporate executives, top level engineers, top level doctors, top level athletes, top level doctors, top level entertainers, top level anything.

All we have left is working middle class in Canada.

Justin Trudeau has some homework to do.
READ THIS ARTICLE https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...aul-wells.html

also Kevin O'Leary talked about this issue as well.

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Old 07-30-2016, 07:03 AM   #7418
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Maybe he will get the hell out of Canada.

It's called "BRAIN DRAIN"

Justin Trudeau is all about middle class.
The problem with his middle class favoritism is that any high class people will get the hell out of Canada.

Top level CEOs and corporate executives, top level engineers, top level doctors, top level athletes, top level doctors, top level entertainers, top level anything.

All we have left is working middle class in Canada.

Justin Trudeau has some homework to do.
READ THIS ARTICLE https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...aul-wells.html

also Kevin O'Leary talked about this issue as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPXqGDtZVmU
I would advise anyone with marketable and transferable skills to get the hell out of Vancouver.

There is absolutely no reason to stay in Vancouver for economic reasons. I more than doubled my after-tax pay after moving and my pay ceiling is 4 times what I would get paid in Vancouver. I'm sure for other professionals the situation would be the same.

Yes for some, the closeness to family may be a significant factor, but when faced with the reality of being significantly underpaid, and the low housing affordability on local wages, I expect more and more people to make the jump.
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Old 07-30-2016, 08:40 AM   #7419
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So where do you live now?
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Old 07-30-2016, 10:12 AM   #7420
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So where do you live now?
I live and work in Hong Kong now. Other choices I could've made included the US which would probably yield at least a 20-30% pay raise, but the pay package is not even close to what I would make in HK.

I'll give you an example of how much professionals can make outside of Vancouver.

My job in Vancouver as a pharmacist: $82k CAD before tax, around 52k net
My job in Hong Kong $117k CAD before tax, probably around $105k net. Equivalent wage in Vancouver, probably around 170k.

Pharmacist max salary in the hospital (Vancouver): Around 48/hr if I recall, probably around 95k per year
Pharmacist max salary in HK, $105k hkd per month (paid 13 months per year) = 227k CAD per year before tax, maybe 200k CAD after tax. Equivalent salary in Vancouver $350k?

And no you do not need to be a Hong Kong resident for this job. There are plenty of private hospitals who hire foreign professionals to service expats.

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Old 07-30-2016, 10:52 AM   #7421
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What's your opinion on your non work life in Hong Kong compared to Vancouver?
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Old 07-30-2016, 11:43 AM   #7422
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You dont need to report HK income in canada?
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Old 07-30-2016, 12:01 PM   #7423
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i also know health professionals that work in Hong Kong and Singapore predominately servicing expats...the money is amazing but I can't see myself trading space, hobbies and most importantly fresh air.

I guess if you grew up there and that's all you're accustomed to everyone living in 12F+ highrises that's fine...probably not fun for Westerners adjusting, even a few days there I felt clusterphobic haha
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Old 07-30-2016, 12:19 PM   #7424
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Canadian government is doing it all wrong, and their worries are coming through.

The US has a much better system for foreign investment in real estate, call FIRPTA (Foreign Investment in Real Property Tax Act, if memory serves me well).

If you do not file taxes in US, they just withhold. You sell your property, 10% of proceeds must be withheld by the buyer and remitted to the government (title agency will do this) - you must prove you are a US filer to avoid this - the burden is on the buyer (not the seller, buyer is the withholding agent) to ensure everything is correct... ppl don't fuck this up.

I was exposed to this, and set up a structure to avoid FIRPTA (create a tax paying resident entity), but then again, I have nothing to hide and enjoy paying my taxes in the US as they're generally low.

it's a great system, canada should do something very similar. they have a tax on the way in, but you can also tax on the way out if the owner isn't a tax paying resident.

you can then go further and increase property taxes on empty properties (something I don't mind as they are removed from being a productive asset, and are therefore inefficient) or you could even just jack up property taxes for all and offer a rebate based on a number of factors, such as taxable income on your return, or age (would heavily tax students owning $31M properties, but would avoid taxing retirees, if you meet rebate criteria, you don't pay taxes up front just net them so no cash flow difference).

there are so many tools at the disposal of the government / CRA to automatically collect taxes / impose taxes whilst ensuring tax paying residents don't get burdened... but smart thinking isn't the strong point of politicians, nor is protecting the interest of tax paying voters in BC.
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Old 07-30-2016, 12:20 PM   #7425
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You dont need to report HK income in canada?
only a resident of Canada would report their worldwide income, not a citizen (unlike the US citizenship rules on taxation).

He is clearly a non-resident of Canada for tax purposes
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