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It's great that the average household income is $140K. But someone is still working minimum wage at the local McD's or whatever the equivilent is in Switzerland.
According to google, minimum salary is $15457 francs per year, so that is $21,677 cdn per year.
Let's see a couple making minimum wage try to buy a $600K house with a combined annual income of $43,354 cdn.
two people on minimum wage should not be your ideal house purchasing couple.
minimum wage is not a salary, it is a starting point in life.
also, that 600K house was pretty big from the looks of it, i'm sure there are much more modest sized homes that said couple could afford (5X income cap at 215K), such as an apartment.
There are town homes in Richmond that have the first level as a rental unit. Not sure if Vancouver has them as well but I don't doubt it. Maybe have best of both worlds with a town home. Raising a family in a 1 bedroom condo would be 'squishy' to say the least.
Van has townhomes with rental on 1st floor. Avalon Mews development has them, first I've ever seen.
IGTBAR - 54th is Freehold and FYI there are only 3 areas of all of Van that has leasehold. Champlain, UBC, and False Creek.
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Yeah - that's the point we are at now. I guess the part where we are struggling is what to classify as a lifestyle we want.
First world problems
We were in a similar scenario a couple years back, making half your income though. Income aside, we set very tight limits on what we should be paying for each type of home, got approved for a silly mortgage amount but ended up using less than half
Our consideration to stay in the city (bby townhouse) was closer proximity to both of our work, closer proximity to family and also a number of our friends who were still living the kid free lifestyle. we wanted a larger th 1400+ sf so we were limited to older complexes. Coming from a condo where strata was an absolute pain to deal with (and I was the strata president!), this was a big part of our decision making process as well as the th we were looking at all had a good chance of upcoming maintenance. In the 6 years we were at our condo we sank $75k+ into maintenance related items and an immeasurable amount of stress, while our property increased maybe 30-40k over that same amount of time. The deciding factor was also knowing that the th was still going to be an intermediate home for us and we would be making at least another move to a larger home in maybe 5-10 yrs.
We ended up in a detached house in Coquitlam. Paid ~15% premium over what we wanted to spend on a th. Our commute to work sucks, we are a bit further from family and friends, but really with our young family its not like we have a ton of extra time now to sit around and chill, we'd rather catch up on sleep. We live in a great quiet neighbourhood with many youngish families, feel very safe, and have full control of doing whatever we want to our property. We're within walking distance to a large urban park/forest which is great for the kids. Owning a detached house is a lot of work though from a maintenance point of view, and can also potentially be lots of $$ too. Ultimately we have peace of mind that we can comfortably grow into our house, and if we move in the future it will be more bc of frivolous desires and not bc we feel we need more space or amenities.
Fwiw we figure our house has gained 100-120k in value in our 15 months of ownership, this really doesn't mean anything though. We are just fortunate about the timing because if we were in the market now, we wouldn't be comfortable buying detached at current prices but we also wouldn't be satisfied with buying a th at the similarly inflated prices.
We were in a similar scenario a couple years back, making half your income though. Income aside, we set very tight limits on what we should be paying for each type of home, got approved for a silly mortgage amount but ended up using less than half
Our consideration to stay in the city (bby townhouse) was closer proximity to both of our work, closer proximity to family and also a number of our friends who were still living the kid free lifestyle. we wanted a larger th 1400+ sf so we were limited to older complexes. Coming from a condo where strata was an absolute pain to deal with (and I was the strata president!), this was a big part of our decision making process as well as the th we were looking at all had a good chance of upcoming maintenance. In the 6 years we were at our condo we sank $75k+ into maintenance related items and an immeasurable amount of stress, while our property increased maybe 30-40k over that same amount of time. The deciding factor was also knowing that the th was still going to be an intermediate home for us and we would be making at least another move to a larger home in maybe 5-10 yrs.
We ended up in a detached house in Coquitlam. Paid ~15% premium over what we wanted to spend on a th. Our commute to work sucks, we are a bit further from family and friends, but really with our young family its not like we have a ton of extra time now to sit around and chill, we'd rather catch up on sleep. We live in a great quiet neighbourhood with many youngish families, feel very safe, and have full control of doing whatever we want to our property. We're within walking distance to a large urban park/forest which is great for the kids. Owning a detached house is a lot of work though from a maintenance point of view, and can also potentially be lots of $$ too. Ultimately we have peace of mind that we can comfortably grow into our house, and if we move in the future it will be more bc of frivolous desires and not bc we feel we need more space or amenities.
Fwiw we figure our house has gained 100-120k in value in our 15 months of ownership, this really doesn't mean anything though. We are just fortunate about the timing because if we were in the market now, we wouldn't be comfortable buying detached at current prices but we also wouldn't be satisfied with buying a th at the similarly inflated prices.
Thank you - this is the type of feedback I was looking for.
We find a way to see both sets of grandparents once or twice a week for a good few hours, we just sacrifice a bit of our own free time to make it happen because its important to us. It takes a similar amount of time now to get to my parents compared to when we were living by ubc because city traffic is absolute madness and its not about to get any better. So actual travel times are something to consider as well
Regardless of what your decision is at the end of the day we all find a way to make things work out.
If you're within 10 minutes of the highway on both ends (yourself vs parents, relatives, etc) distance from places like coquitlam and Burnaby to Van, the north shore, etc really isn't that much of a concern. Most places you can get to within 30 minutes even during busy times
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Chinese investors snag Vancouver’s biggest real estate prize: All four towers of the Bentall Centre
Garry Marr | February 17, 2016 5:49 PM ET
More from Garry Marr | @DustyWallet
Anbang Insurance Group Co. Ltd., a Beijing-based company with a reported US$114 billion in assets, is buying what amounts to a 66 per cent stake in Bentall I, II, III and IV — a sprawling commercial 1.5-million-square-foot office complex, with some retail, in the heart of Vancouver.
Chinese investors have won one of the most important commercial real estate auctions in Vancouver history, swooping in to grab a controlling interest in all four towers of the Bentall Centre.
Sources confirmed to the Financial Post that Anbang Insurance Group Co. Ltd., a Beijing-based company with a reported US$114 billion in assets, is buying what amounts to a 66 per cent stake in Bentall I, II, III and IV — a sprawling commercial 1.5-million-square-foot office complex, with some retail, in the heart of Vancouver.
It was reported in October that Ivanhoé Cambridge Inc., a subsidiary of Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec, was selling its stake in the four towers. The price paid by Anbang values the entire complex at more than $1 billion, according to sources. The deal has not yet closed.
Anbang has been been looking for more opportunities in Canada after paying $110 million last year for a land lease of HSBC Building at 70 York St. Toronto. The Chinese company bought the land lease, which gives it ownership of the building for a set period of time, from Brookfield Office Properties in what was considered one of the highest recent valuations for a building in Toronto.
It’s an absolute jewel of a property
But the insurance company’s biggest North American splash was probably in 2014 when it bought the famed Waldorf Astoria in New York City for US$1.9 billion. Bentall Centre would be its largest foray into Canada — as it takes over the Ivanhoe stake. Each tower has a slightly different ownership structure but Great West Life Assurance effectively controls 34 per cent of the the four centres combined.
The deal continues to show the appetite of Chinese investors for the Canadian market, especially in Vancouver where concerns continue to rage about Asian buyers moving into the city’s residential market.
Interest in Vancouver office space has not been confined to just Asian investors. Attracted by the struggling loonie, European investors have also been eyeing the market. German multi-billionaire Klaus-Michael Kuehne is said to to have paid $400 million for Royal Centre, a 36-storey building at 1055 West Georgia Street, last month.
Ross Moore, an independent real estate consultant, said Chinese investor interest is probably at an all-time high. “We’ve seen it on the residential side but now it’s on the commercial side,” he said.
Moore said he can’t recall a bigger deal in Vancouver commercial history, when the four buildings are considered as one entity.
“It’s an absolute jewel of a property,” said Moore, about the buildings which are relatively dated with the newest one built in 1981. “It’s an older property but irreplaceable. It’s hard to beat the location. You are sitting on top of SkyTrain and tenants just love it. It always leases up. I’ve never seen significant vacancy, they are always full.”
Scott Chandler, senior vice-president of advisory and investment sales with Colliers International, said the weak Canadian dollar continues to drive interest in commercial real estate, but the appeal of Vancouver can’t be ignored.
“It’s very hot and very strong. It’s a high growth area with a large urban population and limited land. All this is driving up prices,” he said.
The appeal to Chinese investors is also pretty simple: “It’s a safe haven in a safe financial system,” he said.
Big news for Vancouver's commercial real estate market.
A Chinese company (who else?) buys all four Bentall Towers. A purchase that is estimated to be worth at least $1 billion. Commercial real estate is definitely attractive for big offshore investors given that the Canadian dollar is weak right now.
A Vancouver-registered company called Maple Tree Financial Management that appears to be associated with a Chinese state-owned insurance giant is buying a controlling interest in all four towers of the Bentall Centre.
Sources confirmed to Postmedia that China’s Anbang Insurance Group Co. Ltd., a Beijing-based company with a reported $114 billion US in assets, is buying what amounts to a 66-per-cent stake in Bentall I, II, III and IV — a sprawling commercial 1.5-million-square-foot office complex with some retail shops in the heart of downtown Vancouver.
In October, there were reports that Ivanhoé Cambridge Inc., a subsidiary of Caisse de dépôt et placement du Québec, was selling its stake in the four towers. The price paid by Anbang values the entire complex at more than $1 billion, according to sources. The deal has not yet closed, but chatter about it is rife in the market.
Tenants in the Bentall buildings have been receiving “estoppel” certificates. These are used for due diligence ahead of a firm sale and are filed by tenants to verify lease terms ahead of a landlord’s proposed transaction with another party.
The exact relationship between Anbang and Maple Tree Financial Management is unknown. Maple Tree was incorporated in June 2015 and has been based on the 25th floor of 200 Granville St. in downtown Vancouver for eight months. The company’s two directors list local residential addresses, one in Surrey and the other in Coquitlam.
A sign beside the company’s office door reads Maple Tree Financial Management and, inside, above the reception desk is a sign with Anbang’s red-and-white logo and a sign reading Anbang Insurance Group in English and Chinese characters. An employee declined to comment.
If the deal closes, it would mark one of the first moves by a major state-owned Chinese company into the Vancouver commercial real estate market. Industry sources speculated that Anbang may have taken positions in other recent major Vancouver deals.
Anbang has been been looking for more opportunities in Canada after paying $110 million last year for a land lease of the HSBC Building at 70 York St. in Toronto. The Chinese company bought the land lease, which gives it ownership of the building for a set period of time, from Brookfield Office Properties in what was considered one of the highest recent valuations for a building in Toronto.
Anbang’s biggest North American splash was probably in 2014 when it bought the famed Waldorf Astoria in New York City for $1.9 billion US.
Bentall Centre could be its largest foray into Canada — as it takes over the Ivanhoé stake. Each tower has a slightly different ownership structure, but Great West Life Assurance effectively controls 34 per cent of the four buildings combined.
The deal continues to show the appetite of Chinese investors for the Canadian market, especially in Vancouver where concerns continue to rage about Asian buyers moving into the city’s residential market.
Commercial property is proving to be just as desirable to institutional investors.
Interest in Vancouver office space has not been confined to just Asian investors. Attracted by the struggling loonie, European investors have also been eyeing the market. German multi-billionaire Klaus-Michael Kuehne is said to to have paid $400 million for Royal Centre, a 36-storey building at 1055 West Georgia St., last month.
Ross Moore, an independent real estate consultant, said Chinese investor interest is probably at an all-time high. “We’ve seen it on the residential side, but now it’s on the commercial side,” he said.
Moore said he can’t recall a bigger deal in Vancouver commercial real estate history.
“It’s an absolute jewel of a property,” said Moore about the buildings, which are relatively dated (the newest was built in 1981). “It’s an older property, but irreplaceable. It’s hard to beat the location. You are sitting on top of SkyTrain, and tenants just love it. It always leases up. I’ve never seen significant vacancy. They are always full.”
The most recent B.C. Assessment values the towers at more than $891 million. At the estimated sale price of $1 billion for 66 per cent of the the buildings, the value hits almost $1,000 per square foot.
To compare, in 2009, when German investment firm Deka Immobilien Investment GmbH bought the newer Bentall 5 building from a Quebec pension fund, it paid $297 million. Three years later, Deka sold it for $400 million to several Canadian pension funds whose investments are managed by Bentall Kennedy, a firm once related to the Bentall family, which built the original four buildings.
That sale in 2012 equated to about $686 per square foot, according to real estate reports.
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Last edited by pastarocket; 02-18-2016 at 01:49 PM.
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FastAnna you literally talk out your ass
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People with a financial interest in keeping the pyramid scheme going will never see the problems in Vancouver's market right now.
It's like trying to convince hard core religious people that the world is round. Only when the house of cards eventually falls do people start regretting and by that point the people left picking up the pieces are the people who never made this mess to begin with.
I have zero interest in purchasing or living in Vancouver, but I find it kind of sad how greed is destroying the city for future generations.
What do locals have against buying condos and/or townhouses? The prices on those have risen, but not at an insane pace.
When you go to places like Europe or Latin America, you ain't gonna get a house on a huge lot *anywhere* close to the downtown core of any reasonably large city.
I was actually thinking back to my time in Brazil; Rio is a super dense city. Everybody who lives in the touristy areas, or in the areas close to downtown, lives in a condo, or, if they're really lucky, a "vila" (basically a mini townhouse complex):
I lived for most of my life in that house, number 12. Note how there's no backyard, huge acreage, etc. Mind you, this house was around 45 minutes to an hour by bus from downtown. If we wanted to live in a large house, it would have been $$$$$$. If we wanted to live in a large house, say, in Copacabana, we couldn't because they didn't exist lol
I honestly believe that a potential solution for the current housing issues is to densify. There is no other way. Vancouver is now a "world class city". Guess what? You ain't buying a half acre lot close to downtown (or hell, even 45 minutes from downtown) in any of these cities Vancouver compares itself to unless you're filthy rich! And in many cases, those lots don't even exist.
What it seems to me is that people want to continue to live the lifestyle that their parents had, but not realizing that the city has changed and there's no going back.
tl;dr there's a lot of people who feel entitled to buy a single family house. Go look at condos or townhomes instead.
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What do locals have against buying condos and/or townhouses? The prices on those have risen, but not at an insane pace.
We're resigned to a townhome as our next home, but if you've been following the market, even townhomes in desirable areas are reaching eye-popping prices. Townhouses in the tri-cities are now selling in the 600K range.
Condos are great when you're single or a couple. But, most condos do not have sufficient space to raise 1-2 kids. Also, when you start a family, you start to hang out with other families. Maybe you want to host? A condo is pretty small to host gatherings larger than 10.
Townhouses are a decent compromise, but you still don't own anything other than the space between your walls. Also, people don't like strata councils and their politics. People want to do repairs and maintenance on their own terms, instead of having to pony up money each month or to deal with special assessments. Personally, I think strata living makes a lot of sense for busy families. I'm decent with hand tools, but doing repairs and maintenance on the exterior of your home takes time, money, and know-how. If you're raising two to three kids, and have a job that keeps you at the office or on the road 50-70 hours a week, the last thing you'd want to do on my day off is to clean the siding. Ultimately though, I think people in North America want the feeling of owning land. It's the North American ethos.
We're resigned to a townhome as our next home, but if you've been following the market, even townhomes in desirable areas are reaching eye-popping prices. Townhouses in the tri-cities are now selling in the 600K range.
Condos are great when you're single or a couple. But, most condos do not have sufficient space to raise 1-2 kids. Also, when you start a family, you start to hang out with other families. Maybe you want to host? A condo is pretty small to host gatherings larger than 10.
Townhouses are a decent compromise, but you still don't own anything other than the space between your walls. Also, people don't like strata councils and their politics. People want to do repairs and maintenance on their own terms, instead of having to pony up money each month or to deal with special assessments. Personally, I think strata living makes a lot of sense for busy families. I'm decent with hand tools, but doing repairs and maintenance on the exterior of your home takes time, money, and know-how. If you're raising two to three kids, and have a job that keeps you at the office or on the road 50-70 hours a week, the last thing you'd want to do on my day off is to clean the siding. Ultimately though, I think people in North America want the feeling of owning land. It's the North American ethos.
That's understandable, but I go back to the zoning and density issues. Things like this:
Are a travesty in my opinion. 700k for a 1 bedroom apartment? Piss off. However, if the city had more areas zoned for low rise buildings, for example, or mixed use, there would be a lot more downward pressure on pricing.
Surrey is a great example of that. Condos haven't really moved in price in ten years, but because there's a ton of them on the market.
What Vancouver really, really needs is to focus on densification. And people have to simply accept that the city has changed irreversibly, and if you want a huge house with a yard, well, Langley and Maple Ridge are only 45 minutes by car away.
On the flip side, look at downtown Seattle, 3 bedrooms+:
__________________ There's a phallic symbol infront of my car
Quote:
MG1: in fact, a new term needs to make its way into the American dictionary. Trump............ he's such a "Trump" = ultimate insult. Like, "yray, you're such a trump."
bcrdukes yray fucked bcrdukes up the nose
dapperfied yraisis
dapperfied yray so waisis
FastAnna you literally talk out your ass
FastAnna i really cant
FastAnna yray i cant stand you
Why are Chinese investors only targeting Vancouver?
I know Vancouver is most expensive(if not, one of) place to buy real estate in North America, so I would've guessed Chinese investors would be more attracted to San Diego, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, etc...
Vancouver real estate: is it supply and demand, or foreign capital? The B.C. government and real estate industry say Vancouver's soaring home prices are a matter of supply and demand. Economists don't agree
Photo: UBC professor Tom Davidoff: “It’s very hard to think that anything other than outside capital flows are driving unaffordability right now”
The B.C. government appears to continue to accept the real estate industry’s argument that rapid home price increases in Vancouver are a supply and demand problem, not the result of wealthy people from China seeking a safe haven for their money.
But two Vancouver-based economists who specialize in real estate say it’s clear that the capital outflow phenomenon is having an effect on the city’s real estate market.
“It’s very hard to think that anything other than outside capital flows are driving unaffordability right now,” said Tom Davidoff, a professor of economics at University of British Columbia’s Sauder School of Business.
“These housing prices do not make sense as a live and work proposition. They make sense as bags of cash hiding out in real estate looking for a safe return.”
The province’s 2016 budget unveiled a suite of measures designed to help put home ownership within the reach of more people. They included a property transfer tax (PTT) exemption for buyers of new homes that are priced at up to $750,000; a PTT increase to 3% from 2% for properties valued at more than $2 million; and a reqirement that property buyers self-report their nationality when they register their property.
Currently, Canada does not track data on foreign owners of real estate, and the Ministry of Finance has relied on information from the real estate industry that foreign investors represent a minor part of the real estate market.
In budget briefing documents, the province downplayed the effect foreign investment is having on Vancouver’s housing market, saying that the Lower Mainland has historically had high housing prices and supply constraints and demand from brisk population growth are behind the price increases.
Jon Stovell, president of Reliance Properties and a director of the Urban Development Institute, said lack of supply was the only answer to the question of why home prices have risen to such dizzying levels.
“The public is looking for a smoking gun with respect to housing affordability, like shadow flipping or offshore buyers or speculators,” Stovell said. “But it’s not that; it’s just straight out supply.”
The theory that Vancouver’s land constraints and population increase were the main factors behind the price increases made sense until prices jumped sharply — by around 20% – during 2015, said Tsur Somerville, another Sauder professor.
“The only thing that you can point to that’s changed are two things: one, the lowering of the Canadian dollar and two, a massive change in the official currency reserves in China,” Somerville said, referring to a sharp increase in wealthy individuals and companies trying to get money out of China in response to that country’s economic slowdown.
Top, benchmark residential real estate prices in East Vancouver; bottom, benchmark prices on Vancouver's westside | Data source: Real Estate Board of Greater Vancouver
Singapore and London recently increased tax on non-residents and the United States is investigating the use of shell companies to hide real estate transactions, Somerville said. B.C.’s inaction on the issue means the region will attract those seeking a safe money haven.
The PTT exemption for new homes could be beneficial in areas of the province that don’t have as much demand for housing, said Davidoff, and it will benefit home builders. But in Metro Vancouver, where developers can’t build projects fast enough and where municipal fees haven’t slowed the pace of development, the policy is unlikely to have much effect. Tax exemptions are a policy a government might turn to stimulate a sluggish housing market, like the one the United States experienced following the 2008 financial crisis, he said.
NDP MLA David Eby questioned how accurate the data collected would be, given that several media investigations have shown realtors bending the rules for their wealthy clients.
“I was hoping to see more than just a form for rogue realtors to check a box,” he said.
“There’s an issue with compliance with realtors encouraging clients to not accurately declare their residency.”
Raising the PTT on homes worth more than $2 million is a positive move, Somerville said, because it makes the tax more progressive.
But Stovell said the increase will be passed on to new condo buyers because much new development in Vancouver now requires land assembly, a process of slowly buying single-family lots, many of which are now priced at over the $2 million mark. The assembler then re-sells those lots to the developer – meaning the PTT can be paid three or four times, with the land value increasing with each sale.
For one downtown project he is working on, Stovell calculated the PTT increase would add around $2,500 to each condo unit.
Davidoff and Somerville were part of a group of academics at UBC and Simon Fraser University who developed a proposal to charge higher property tax if property owners don’t live in the property or don’t report income in Canada.
Despite the province’s public rhetoric, government seems to be seriously considering the proposal; government staff will be meeting with Davidoff next week.
“They must be aware that the dominant issue is this huge inflow of people looking to park cash in Vancouver real estate,” Davidoff said.
Why are Chinese investors only targeting Vancouver?
I know Vancouver is most expensive(if not, one of) place to buy real estate in North America, so I would've guessed Chinese investors would be more attracted to San Diego, Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, etc...
they're not. this is a global phenomenon not just for chinese money, but russian, arab, etc.
it is probably just a proportionally bigger issue in Vancovuer as Vancouver will be one of the smaller cities that is being affected. also, given the higher proportion of chinese / HK residents in Vancouver it becomes a meme for some socioeconomic condition rather than just a pure real estate issue.
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Commercial real estate is definitely attractive for big offshore investors given that the Canadian dollar is weak right now. 
