Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[westopher]

Originally Posted by UFO

I totally agree with this; then complain . But then at the root of it, that's just lack of discipline no?

At a certain point I think lack of discipline is replaced with pessimism which I totally understand. I mean people want to be rewarded for their hard work at some point. When one reward becomes seemingly out of reach I totally understand looking for a different reward.

[meme405]

Originally Posted by westopher

When so much of a market is controlled by so few they can manipulat it to ridiculous levels.

But then people need to stop blaming foreign buyers, because Companies like Bosa, Legacy, Polygon, Amacon, Onni, Ledmac, Intercorp, etc.

All these companies build new developments and condo's, and many hold onto units for years.

We have a property in Lower Lonsdale built by Bosa, the building is part hotel, part private residences. It was completed in 2009. There are 79 residential units, I believe at at the last AGM (2015), 22 of the residential units were still represented by Bosa. These units have been sitting empty for a time span of 7 years. I know this because I know which parking stalls belong to these units and I can see they are empty all the time.

2008-2009 I lived in north burnaby in a condo tower developed by Legacy (tied to bosa at the hips), the building was completed in 2008. When I moved out up to 20% of the units were still controlled by Legacy.

These companies, especially when dealing with large developments such as Bosa's in lower lonsdale (where they built like 8 towers), or Brentwood, they hold onto multiple units for extended periods of time. As the area settles and gentrifies then they slowly start to flip units.

That building in lower lonsdale, Bosa still has 2 buildings left to complete, one is being completed as we speak, and the plans for the final building are currently being finalized. once that it complete and the area has matured, and their vision is complete, their properties will have peaked in value. They will then start to sell them off.

NOTE: Concord is also notorious for this.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by westopher

At a certain point I think lack of discipline is replaced with pessimism which I totally understand. I mean people want to be rewarded for their hard work at some point. When one reward becomes seemingly out of reach I totally understand looking for a different reward.

Understandable. But there are many who are willing to put up whatever sacrifice to attain their goals, and those people should not be 'penalized' by intervention to level any market, IMO.

In a sense I think the instant gratification is also large a source of the unsustainable prices. Buyers jumping in with the bare minimum down payment and maxed out mortgage based on historically low rates, instead of saving up a larger down payment and being more conservative with their mortgages bc FOMO

[UFO]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

You were able to save up for 50% of your house, or you got the money through saving and help somewhere else? I'm just asking cause 50% is a lot for a down payment on a house which means you must have had at least 200-300k to put down at the time.

Lived at home rent free during undergrad and 3 years while working. So able to save a bunch for downpayment towards our condo. Continued to save aggressively and pay down hard during the first 5 years of mortgage while setting some aside for down payment on the house; the 50% was a combination of cash and equity in our condo. We did get parental help to cosign the bridge loan on our house in between buying the house and selling the condo

Having said that we didn't work nearly as hard on our retirement savings over that period so now we're working to catch up on that as well as for RESPs now, which we are fine with because we plan for the house to be our home for the next 20+ years

[MarkyMark]

I think it's pretty much a given now that without some kind of help, saving up for that 20% down payment is a pipe dream for most. Free rent for a few years is a massive advantage, and generally free rent means a lot of meals are covered as well so you could pocket 90% of your cheques.

[Adorkami]

When I purchased my condo 6/7 years ago my wife and I grossed about 150k/year, we were fortunate to have help from my grandparents(my grandfather gave all his grand kids 150k when he sold his house, wanted us to be able to enjoy the money before he is no longer around). Then when I purchased my house my parents loaned me money to help out with the down payment which will be paid back when I sell my condo. Even with the amount my wife and I made I think we would still be condo living with 1 kid as opposed to being in a house with 2 kids if it wasnt for the help of our family.

[Tapioca]

Today's Globe and Mail featured a condo in New West that sold 2 weeks after the foreign buyer tax came into effect. It listed for $388K and sold for just under 440K.

Address for the unit is 814 Royal Avenue, unit 1405.

New West is the new Brentwood. Even though this unit is in downtown New West, I would say that Sapperton by the hospital and the former brewery is a better value.

There's also an article in the Vancouver Sun today which talks about the brisk sale of pre-construction condos in the City of Vancouver.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

I think it's pretty much a given now that without some kind of help, saving up for that 20% down payment is a pipe dream for most. Free rent for a few years is a massive advantage, and generally free rent means a lot of meals are covered as well so you could pocket 90% of your cheques.

The stigma around staying home and saving will eventually recede in North America. The culture of staying home until one ia married and established has been around in Asian and Mediterranean cultures for a long time.

However in a city like Vancouver, there are lots of people who are staying home and pissing their money away on German cars, vacations, restaurants, booze, etc.

[chinook79]

Are you sure that it's Bosa? Sounds so much like Pinnacle.
I used to own 5 units around that area..

Originally Posted by meme405

But then people need to stop blaming foreign buyers, because Companies like Bosa, Legacy, Polygon, Amacon, Onni, Ledmac, Intercorp, etc.

All these companies build new developments and condo's, and many hold onto units for years.

We have a property in Lower Lonsdale built by Bosa, the building is part hotel, part private residences. It was completed in 2009. There are 79 residential units, I believe at at the last AGM (2015), 22 of the residential units were still represented by Bosa. These units have been sitting empty for a time span of 7 years. I know this because I know which parking stalls belong to these units and I can see they are empty all the time.

2008-2009 I lived in north burnaby in a condo tower developed by Legacy (tied to bosa at the hips), the building was completed in 2008. When I moved out up to 20% of the units were still controlled by Legacy.

These companies, especially when dealing with large developments such as Bosa's in lower lonsdale (where they built like 8 towers), or Brentwood, they hold onto multiple units for extended periods of time. As the area settles and gentrifies then they slowly start to flip units.

That building in lower lonsdale, Bosa still has 2 buildings left to complete, one is being completed as we speak, and the plans for the final building are currently being finalized. once that it complete and the area has matured, and their vision is complete, their properties will have peaked in value. They will then start to sell them off.

NOTE: Concord is also notorious for this.

[Hondaracer]

two houses i've been watching were pulled down and relisted at a higher price this week.. odd, havent really seen that before

[westopher]

Originally Posted by chinook79

Are you sure that it's Bosa? Sounds so much like Pinnacle.
I used to own 5 units around that area..

Sounds like pinnacle.
Either way, it's all the same. Amacon, onni, pinnacle are all the same family I know for sure. I think bosa is in the same family as well.

[meme405]

Originally Posted by chinook79

Are you sure that it's Bosa? Sounds so much like Pinnacle.
I used to own 5 units around that area..

It's pinnacle, sorry, had Bosa on the mind when I was writing that up.

But yes all the major developers operate in a similar fashion, so it makes no difference.

People like to talk that housing isn't an investment, but these companies have been making a business out of housing for the last 30 years, and I'm not just talking about building and selling. They hold onto units, they play the game. And they have the means to play the game at a much higher level than anyone in here. So realistically you are all at their mercy.

Until the government starts greenlighting condo's like a wildfire it won't stop these developers from playing their little game. I mean can you believe the lack of condo's around Nanaimo and many of the other skytrain stations? Zoning boards need to work much harder and just green light the shit out of those areas for dozens more towers. The only thing that will cool the market is more supply. Even then there's no guarantee that developers will come forward to quickly develop those areas, so we might still end up stuck in this same position.

[melloman]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

Today's Globe and Mail featured a condo in New West that sold 2 weeks after the foreign buyer tax came into effect. It listed for $388K and sold for just under 440K.

Address for the unit is 814 Royal Avenue, unit 1405.

New West is the new Brentwood. Even though this unit is in downtown New West, I would say that Sapperton by the hospital and the former brewery is a better value.

There's also an article in the Vancouver Sun today which talks about the brisk sale of pre-construction condos in the City of Vancouver.

That was a nice unit. 440k isn't bad for roughly 880sq.ft. 2bdrm 2bath + den, with nice fixtures and beautiful South + West facing views with barely any obstructions being at the top of the hill where Douglas College is.

Yet now Sapperton is abit different. New West "downtown" is still in a redevelopment process, where they've only really hit up to 6th St on Columbia. From 6th to Patullo it's still grungy and they're working to make everything nicer.

Sapperton on the other hand is where New West skytrains crime has gone. It's why all those new towers around the hospital are going up, to try and keep pushing crime East and South. Sapperton might have more value in property long term but by long I mean 10-15+ years. Also look at the amenities in that neighbourhood, that aren't that many compared to downtown.

Alternatively New West downtown is quickly gaining appeal to alot of people and the building boom down here is ridiculous. If you do abit of hunting online, they are trying to build approximately 10-15 towers in the Columbia Street vicinity over the next 5 years.

Prices in New West are only going to go up until a crash hits.

[Hondaracer]

New west downtown probably has some good value right now.

In terms of that developer strategy holding units, every developer I've ever worked with has done exactly the same thing, it's a developer thing not just a greedy Bosa, onni, etc thing

Smaller developers we worked with who would have anywhere from 20-100 units going at once would presell 3/4 of the most desirable units then pretend the other quarter were sold as well. They would then open their sales center and gauge interest on the remaining units, if a handfull sold in the first week, the price would be 40k higher the following week.

Then once the less desirable units were all snatched up at 130%+ original asking price, they would reintroduce that last quarter of the most desirable units now relative to the price of the cheaper ones.

Can't really blame them for following these strategies. We all would do the same if we were in that position.

[Armind]

The rent has also sky rocketed. $1400 for 500 sq ft at the newest building Trapp + Holbrook

[Hondaracer]

Straight up, like, what's the bigger unaffordabillity crisis, buying or renting?

17k per year for 500sq in new west?

[CL typeS]

I think renting is the bigger issue. Owning a home, condo, townhouse, whatever is not a right. But everyone should at least have a roof over their head

[hud 91gt]

Except the only reason rent is up is because housing is.....

Boils down to, who is going to be able to afford here, own or rent?

[Spoon]

Think we're forgetting that the greatest benefit of renting is mobility. If you can't make enough to cover your rent. You straight up have to move somewhere more affordable.

[jing]

70s built home in my parents block just sold in less than a week after the sign went up. No open house. Listed at 1.19

[m3thods]

Originally Posted by jing

70s built home in my parents block just sold in less than a week after the sign went up. No open house. Listed at 1.19

But where do your parents live? Seems pretty light for Van proper.

[MrPhreak]

Originally Posted by Armind

The rent has also sky rocketed. $1400 for 500 sq ft at the newest building Trapp + Holbrook

Rent is totally ridiculous here

[Mr.C]

House we currently live in in Richmond sold for 2, listed at 2.1. 10 days on market, built in the late 60s.

Time to look for a new place to rent :P

[jing]

Originally Posted by m3thods

But where do your parents live? Seems pretty light for Van proper.

Lougheed area. Couple blocks away from the Vancouver Golf Club. There's been maybe 2 houses sold on this block in the entire 20 something years of my existence so it's interesting to say the least of where the price has gone to, considering most of the owners on this block have been living here even longer than we have.

[prolepsis]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

I'm curious for anyone who owns a detached home in this thread, how did you come about it?

Bought our condo years ago and purchased our house about a year and a half ago.

To save for our downpayment for the house, we basically did it via a two-pronged brute force approach: minimize expenses where possible (within reason) while I worked multiple jobs (and continue to do so today).

My spouse works one standard job while I juggle multiple jobs. This does mean that I sometimes miss out on things that I would like to do, such as going skiing--e.g., didn't get a chance to go at all last season, due to my workload, but then I remind myself that it's by choice. For the most part, I enjoy my work, so I don't mind.