Speeding ticket even though the PO said he didn't catch me speeding?

[zulutango]

My favourite actual attempted defence of a stop sign ticket in Duncan Traffic Court....the Cop couldn't have seen me run that sign. I went over to where I think he was parked and I don't believe he could see me run the sign, therefore I'm not guilty. No prize for guessing the outcome

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by jackal

this is such a stupid comparison... going with the flow of traffic, especially on a freeway is almost undoubtedly safer then doing what is sometime 20-30 km/h slower then everyone around you.

running a red means putting yourself into the path of oncoming traffic that also has the right of way.

You may think it is a stupid comparison. You can also think your "sebbery" theory of going with the flow of traffic as a good excuse to speed. I DARE you to use that justification for speeding in traffic court. Your mentality is "I am doing it because others are"? Don't tell me for a minute, that the reason you go over the limit is to be "safe". Give me a break.

[jackal]

Originally Posted by BlueG2

You may think it is a stupid comparison. You can also think your "sebbery" theory of going with the flow of traffic as a good excuse to speed. I DARE you to use that justification for speeding in traffic court. Your mentality is "I am doing it because others are"? Don't tell me for a minute, that the reason you go over the limit is to be "safe". Give me a break.

firstly i never said going with the flow is a excuse to get out of a ticket.

secondly i AM telling you going with the flow of traffic, specifically on freeways, IS safer then doing what is sometimes 20-30km/hour slower then everyone around you. and yes even if that means speeding.

but hey, it's just my opinion

[Yodamaster]

Originally Posted by jackal

firstly i never said going with the flow is a excuse to get out of a ticket.

secondly i AM telling you going with the flow of traffic, specifically on freeways, IS safer then doing what is sometimes 20-30km/hour slower then everyone around you. and yes even if that means speeding.

but hey, it's just my opinion

If you want to avoid having to speed, stay in the right lane, it's the responsibility of other drivers to use the left lane to pass you in that occasion. If somebody rear ends you, you pass go and collect $xxxx.xx from ICBC. No matter how you shake it, if you are using the "flow of traffic" as your ticket to ride, it's still an excuse.

Going over the speed limit is never justified, and the "flow of traffic" "law" is really bullshit. It's a method used by civilians to go faster because they know that cops don't want to write a thousand tickets for 20 over. The paperwork for such a large scale crackdown would swamp the police force, which in turn would decrease the resources available to deal with other non traffic cases. It's not efficient with today's case filing, and cops simply don't give a shit for something as petty and worthless as a ticket for 20 over (resource wise).

But again, that does not change the fact that the actual law still applies, regardless of whatever playground rules civilians apply to the road.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by jackal

firstly i never said going with the flow is a excuse to get out of a ticket.

secondly i AM telling you going with the flow of traffic, specifically on freeways, IS safer then doing what is sometimes 20-30km/hour slower then everyone around you. and yes even if that means speeding.

but hey, it's just my opinion

it may not be your excuse in getting a ticket, but it's your own excuse to go above the speed limit. I really doubt when you speed to be with the flow of traffic, you are really telling yourself you are doing it to be safer

[Sango]

Originally Posted by BlueG2

Going with the speed of traffic isn't an excuse. I don't know why people think it is. If you saw other cars run through a red light, would you?

Yes, generally true.

Speaking of that. Actually that excuse actually worked on a friend of a classmate of mine a few years ago who mentioned this.

It was close to midnight, motorcycle was going obviously over the limit and an officer hiding pulled him over. Officer asked him, why you were going so fast? His response was "going with the flow of traffic". The funny thing is that there was no traffic on the road except him. The officer simply let him go and ask him to ride safely.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by Sango

Yes, generally true.

Speaking of that. Actually that excuse actually worked on a friend of a classmate of mine a few years ago who mentioned this.

It was close to midnight, motorcycle was going obviously over the limit and an officer hiding pulled him over. Officer asked him, why you were going so fast? His response was "going with the flow of traffic". The funny thing is that there was no traffic on the road except him. The officer simply let him go and ask him to ride safely.

My reference was to traffic court, not to a police officer.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by BlueG2

You may think it is a stupid comparison. You can also think your "sebbery" theory of going with the flow of traffic as a good excuse to speed. I DARE you to use that justification for speeding in traffic court. Your mentality is "I am doing it because others are"? Don't tell me for a minute, that the reason you go over the limit is to be "safe". Give me a break.

What's legal isn't necessarily the safest, but what's safe might not necessarily be legal.

Do you pick the red pill or the blue pill?

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Yodamaster

If somebody rear ends you, you pass go and collect $xxxx.xx from ICBC. No matter how you shake it, if you are using the "flow of traffic" as your ticket to ride, it's still an excuse.

"My car is wrecked, I have soft tissue damage, I'm out hundreds or thousands of dollars, I have to deal with ICBC and the body shop, my car might never drive or look quite the same... but hey, at least I wasn't speeding"

A collision is a collision no matter who is at fault. You don't want to be in one and it's your responsibility to drive in a manner that is safe for the road and traffic conditions at that time and place.

[M0nkeyMark]

im currently in the same situation and just trying to seek definitive answers if you guys dont mind chiming in. I was caught "speeding" aswell but the officer did not have a radar gun to prove i was and got a ticket for 75 in a 50 zone although i was not driving that fast and going speed of traffic. Tried to plead my case but officer walked away without me even signing the ticket, and abruptly asked for his pen back. Can i dispute this ticket? Thanks for the feedback in advance!

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by M0nkeyMark

im currently in the same situation and just trying to seek definitive answers if you guys dont mind chiming in. I was caught "speeding" aswell but the officer did not have a radar gun to prove i was and got a ticket for 75 in a 50 zone although i was not driving that fast and going speed of traffic. Tried to plead my case but officer walked away without me even signing the ticket, and abruptly asked for his pen back. Can i dispute this ticket? Thanks for the feedback in advance!

have you not read a SINGLE post in this thread?

[zulutango]

You don't have to sign it, the VT is valid, Cops do not hold roadside Traffic Court...that happens in a courtroom with a JP. You may dispute it....don't know if you "can". Maybe ask yourself "should" instead?

[sebberry]

If a driver nabbed for an infraction has a dash camera, is the equipment necessary for playing back the video files readily available in the courtrooms or does it have to be arranged in advance?

[sho_bc]

Best to call ahead to ensure the equipment is available.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Yodamaster]

Originally Posted by sebberry

"My car is wrecked, I have soft tissue damage, I'm out hundreds or thousands of dollars, I have to deal with ICBC and the body shop, my car might never drive or look quite the same... but hey, at least I wasn't speeding"

A collision is a collision no matter who is at fault. You don't want to be in one and it's your responsibility to drive in a manner that is safe for the road and traffic conditions at that time and place.

It's not anyone's responsibility to speed, I find it interesting that you would call speeding "safe for the road conditions" when the government has already surveyed the road, and deemed it safe at a speed no greater than fifty or one hundred kilometres per hour.

It is NOT safer to speed, no matter how much you want to justify your civilian law. It is your responsibility not to crash into someone for obeying the law, and it is their responsibility to move over when someone like you storms along the left lane. The "flow of traffic" is not that much faster than the limit, but it is still over the limit. That brings in to question your ability to drive safely, if you cannot slow your vehicle by ten kilometres per hour when you see a slower moving vehicle in your path, I do not believe that you are fit to drive on our roads.

This isn't some fantasy world where we choose the rules of the road, driving is not a right, and you either create an arguement that follows the true law, or you forfeit. I am only preaching what is written as law, your arguements are in relation to the breach of such laws, which make them worthless in the eyes of any official governing body.

What you might find ironic or hypocritical, is that I follow the flow of traffic. The difference is, I do not attempt to justify it as "safe" or "lawful", such an arguement is false.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by M0nkeyMark

im currently in the same situation and just trying to seek definitive answers if you guys dont mind chiming in. I was caught "speeding" aswell but the officer did not have a radar gun to prove i was and got a ticket for 75 in a 50 zone although i was not driving that fast and going speed of traffic. Tried to plead my case but officer walked away without me even signing the ticket, and abruptly asked for his pen back. Can i dispute this ticket? Thanks for the feedback in advance!

THIS FORUM NEEEEEEEDS A FAIL BUTTON!!!

[AW607]

Originally Posted by Soundy

THIS FORUM NEEEEEEEDS A FAIL BUTTON!!!

... to fail your misuse of emotes

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Yodamaster

It is your responsibility not to crash into someone for obeying the law, and it is their responsibility to move over when someone like you storms along the left lane.

What do you mean by "someone like you (me) storms along in the left lane? 90% of my driving is done at or below the speed limit, hence why I am so frustrated at constantly being the sitting duck.

Originally Posted by Yodamaster

What you might find ironic or hypocritical, is that I follow the flow of traffic. The difference is, I do not attempt to justify it as "safe" or "lawful", such an arguement is false.

Go on then, justify your actions of going with the flow if you don't consider it safe.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Yodamaster

the government has already surveyed the road, and deemed it safe at a speed no greater than fifty or one hundred kilometres per hour.

Your opinion is not mirrored by the Institute of Transportation Engineers who clearly state that 85th percentile speed is the safest speed for that road, not necessarily the posted speed limit.

http://www.ite.org/standards/speed_zoning.pdf

The more a driver deviates from the mean speed of traffic at that time and place, the higher the risk of a crash. Simple as that.

If everyone was driving along at the posted limit of 50kph and you were doing 40kph, would you feel safer than if you were going with the flow of 50kph?

[jackal]

Originally Posted by sebberry

Go on then, justify your actions of going with the flow if you don't consider it safe.

would like to see this

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by sebberry

Your opinion is not mirrored by the Institute of Transportation Engineers who clearly state that 85th percentile speed is the safest speed for that road, not necessarily the posted speed limit.

http://www.ite.org/standards/speed_zoning.pdf

The more a driver deviates from the mean speed of traffic at that time and place, the higher the risk of a crash. Simple as that.

If everyone was driving along at the posted limit of 50kph and you were doing 40kph, would you feel safer than if you were going with the flow of 50kph?

So if you can't beat em, join em, eh?

Are the stats you read with respect to speed and highways even from BC, let alone Canada? Because I don't remember seeing, hearing, or reading, about an incident where buddy was a victim of an MVI because he was going too slow..

People will always speed, no matter what the limit is, it is human nature. So whatever the limit is set at, people abiding by the law will always be "holding back traffic" which is bullshit. I've said it 10000 times before, especially replying to your posts, at the end of the day, I'm not the one getting tickets. I also could care less if I am the one going the speed limit, and having some irate driver trying to weave in and out of traffic because others on the road are abiding by the law.

[Yodamaster]

Originally Posted by sebberry

What do you mean by "someone like you (me) storms along in the left lane? 90% of my driving is done at or below the speed limit, hence why I am so frustrated at constantly being the sitting duck.

If you don't follow the flow of traffic, then why would you make points that generally defend it? If you've had close encounters with other drivers for traveling at the speed limit, I genuinely feel bad for you.

Originally Posted by sebberry

Go on then, justify your actions of going with the flow if you don't consider it safe.

Does speeding really make you any safer?
-No, going faster in anything increases the risk of injury.

Is speeding legal?
-No, speeding is illegal in all situations.

Do I keep up with traffic?
-Yes

I keep up with the flow of traffic on main roads during medium to heavy traffic. When I'm alone or with a small pack of cars, I generally stay at the limit +/- 5kph. The maximum I'm willing to speed in order to keep up with traffic is 10kph, otherwise I'll brave the tidal wave of cars in the right lane. I keep up so that I don't get ticketed for going too slow.

Take what you want from that, I don't intend for my answers to come off as an excuse, because I don't excuse myself. In the eyes of the law, my reasoning is completely void, and I accept that. You wanted to know why I do it, so there you go.

[sebberry]

I defend it because it's statistically safer to travel with the flow of traffic and I don't want to be a target for Johnny Law for doing what is safer.

Going faster increases the risk of injury in the event of a collision, I give you that. Going with the flow decreases the risk of collision in the first place.

If you feel safer driving more slowly than everyone else, would you drive at 40kph in a 50kph zone if everyone was driving 50kph? No, it's stupid. Increase everyone's speed by 10kph so that they're doing 60kph and you're doing 50kph. It's still stupid.

You still haven't explained why you keep up with the flow of traffic despite being adamant that it's illegal and dangerous.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by sebberry

I defend it because it's statistically safer to travel with the flow of traffic and I don't want to be a target for Johnny Law for doing what is safer.

Going faster increases the risk of injury in the event of a collision, I give you that. Going with the flow decreases the risk of collision in the first place.

If you feel safer driving more slowly than everyone else, would you drive at 40kph in a 50kph zone if everyone was driving 50kph? No, it's stupid. Increase everyone's speed by 10kph so that they're doing 60kph and you're doing 50kph. It's still stupid.

You still haven't explained why you keep up with the flow of traffic despite being adamant that it's illegal and dangerous.

Personally for me, I don't feel it is unsafe for me to be going the speed limit when everyone around me is going faster. I have never been in a situation where I was almost in a collision due to the fact that I was abiding by the speed limit. Come up with ONE scenario where someone going the speed limit will cause/result in an accident. I cannot think of any. I have never been in a situation where I was going the speed limit and was nearly in an accident.

The mass majority of accidents are caused by human/driver error. You put speed to the equation of human error, and it increases the likelihood of damage which could have been reduced if speed wasn't a factor. Try to explain to the pedestrians that are all over the streets of Vancouver that the speed limit will be raised to 70km/h because it's statistically safer. Could you imagine walking or waiting at a crosswalk where cars are travelling 70km/h just a few ft around you? Cars running through red lights at 70km/h..... I really don't see how, even if you "stats" support it, how your common sense doesn't tell you that the reason why speed limits are set the way they are is to save potential lives.

In the end of the day I truly believe the following

- going the speed limit allows me more time to react

- going the speed limit reduces the amount of injury/damage in a collision

You say increasing speed reduces accidents.. well let's see. This may be true simply because the idiots who are always in a rush/ have no patience on the road, get their way, and as a result are not weaving in and out of traffic, putting others lives at risk.

Do you not think, even if overall numbers of accidents are reduced by upping the speed limits, if / when accidents did occur with the higher speed limit, there would be a greater chance of fatality? I would rather have 2x the amount of MINOR MVI's vs. less MVI's with more fatalities.

Lastly, going with the "flow" of traffic is different in every case. Sometimes the flow of traffic is 60 in a 50, and other times it is 70 in 50. I admit I will go 60 in a 50 most of the time, but I won't go over that just because everyone else is.

[Yodamaster]

Originally Posted by sebberry

You still haven't explained why you keep up with the flow of traffic despite being adamant that it's illegal and dangerous.

It keeps the police at bay.

Going too slow or too fast makes you a target for police, to the police it's rather obvious when there are a sea of cars passing you. I attempt to blend in, but I have an upper limit, no more than 10kph over in traffic for me.

I realize how much of a hypocrite I sound like, but it's equally as ridiculous that the police can pull you over for doing nothing wrong.