Is childcare unaffordable?

[GoldenBoy]

THX

[willystyle]

Childcare is expensive in Vancouver, especially when you have 2 children, and in those years where they both need to go to childcare. That's easily $2000/month out of your pocket for those services. If you don't have a reasonable income ($100K+ combined), you probably should consider not having children.

The difference between putting your child in childcare vs. having a stay-at-home parent taking care of them is substantial. Their early childhood development is FAR better in a daycare than at home.

[iKayChow]

Its quite pricey but hey, if your parents or in laws are willing to take care of them while you work that could save some money. Though like willystyle said, their development won't be the greatest. But hey, majority of us probably never did go to daycare ahah. Its only this generation that parents want to put their child into daycare.

[Glove]

why would daycare improve a childs development?

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by Glove

why would daycare improve a childs development?

depends on what happens in daycare vs ikay's comment on parents.

if parents just sit and watch/feed them and put them in front of a TV or something, not much development/interaction.

some schools like certain montessori's as part of their program have the kids do activities to help stimulate development and early learning.

but i've also heard putting your kids in a montessori before the age of 2 is a waste because they won't retain any of the info they learn.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by willystyle

If you don't have a reasonable income ($100K+ combined), you probably should consider not having children

Ding ding ding!

Can't stand these stories on the news of some family living in Port Moody saying they can't afford to buy a home that will be suitable for their 3 young children, gee maybe you should have planned that a little better then?
Posted via RS Mobile

[Mr.HappySilp]

Not planning to have kids for this reason. Is just too expensive to have kids these days. Not to mention the world too over populated anyways.

[Glove]

montessori and daycare should be seperate terms I think,

i've seen tons of daycares where the person will just stick all 8 kids infront of a TV for 4 hours, and then tell them all nap time, and collect royalties for it

[GLOW]

i was told by our dr that screen time (TV, PC, tablets, etc) delays speech development in children too.

[heleu]

Originally Posted by willystyle

Childcare is expensive in Vancouver, especially when you have 2 children, and in those years where they both need to go to childcare. That's easily $2000/month out of your pocket for those services. If you don't have a reasonable income ($100K+ combined), you probably should consider not having children.

The difference between putting your child in childcare vs. having a stay-at-home parent taking care of them is substantial. Their early childhood development is FAR better in a daycare than at home.

Not sure I agree on either point as several of my friends have their retired parents help them with childcare and they do just fine. Also, you can buy a surprising amount of stuff used on craigslist so I find it isn't that expensive. I think when your kid gets older and you need (want) to enroll them in piano lessons, hockey, etc., that's when it gets REALLY expensive.

As for your second point, it really depends on the daycare and the parent. For one thing, if you have a parent, you have one to one care which you would never have with a daycare. However, some daycares and preschools do have "special" (e.g. Montessori) programs, so it might be beneficial - then again, most parents could replicate a similar experience at home.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by heleu

Not sure I agree on either point as several of my friends have their retired parents help them with childcare and they do just fine. Also, you can buy a surprising amount of stuff used on craigslist so I find it isn't that expensive. I think when your kid gets older and you need (want) to enroll them in piano lessons, hockey, etc., that's when it gets REALLY expensive.

Right on! I seen my aunts put through her kids into skiiing lessons, paino, Soccer, chinese school, gym class, swimming class. Then when summer comes is off to summer camps......... These extra activites can get really expensive not to mention it is require nowsaday for your kid to be make it in the futire or even get into a famous school..........

Once they grow older there is going to tutor class on to of all those activites........ then there is university which cost even more. Even with all of that there is no telling how well your kid will do against each other. Then if you were to help them secure them a good job you better know some people in the industry to even have a chance for your kid ot make it out the top.

It all requires money which most people don't have........ I hate to say it but if you aren't making near 100k even if you have kids they might not turn out to be very competitive and might just end up stuck being in the poor/middle class struggling in life to make ends meet.

[Lomac]

None of you have kids, do you?

While it does make things a little harder, having kids and raising them with a "below median" income isn't difficult. Yes, daycare costs a lot (in some cases it's actually cheaper for the second parent to quit work and take care of the kid full time), but the government has subsidies in place to help lower income families. I know a bunch of people who have opted for both routes - some sent their kids to daycare while others looked after them at home. Apart from one kid, all these kids have (so far) grown up to be your typical child. So long as you regulate screen time, give them play dates, and have plenty of things for them to do, kids kept at home don't really have an issue.

Yes, children cost money. There's absolutely no doubting that. However, when you do have kids, your priorities change. Suddenly you no longer yearn for that set of Works rims or the latest video game. Like it or not, your kids become your life. You start realizing you have all this extra cash that you didn't know you had before because everything now revolves around them and whatever else you had in your life takes a backseat for the next eighteen years.

I have friend raising kids on incomes that range from technically the poverty line right up to being a multi-millionaire. The only difference I've seen between them all are pointlessly spending extra money on things that aren't needed (c'mon, who really needs to buy a pair of $50 DC shoes for a 6 month old when you're going to need a new pair in another two months anyway?). The children with less well off parents are still getting into the same activities, becoming friends with the same kids, and experiencing things the exact same.



And before anyone else says that if you have less money, the fewer opportunities you have... that's bullshit. Sure, they may not go to Yale or Eton, but who gives a crap. I have friends who grew up with almost no money and they're now high level execs, successful architects, and one who is a multi-award winning film maker in Europe. I also have a couple friends who grew up with an endless supply of money who now mooch off their parents because they couldn't be bothered to go to Uni and make a life for themselves.

Sending your kid away on multiple music lessons, private schools, summer camp, sports, swimming, etc., doesn't necessarily make them any better prepped for life than someone who only gets to experience a fraction of those. I was sent away for almost all of those (except private school.... private school can suck my balls), and I hated almost every experience. I despised my parents for making me constantly do things and not having any sort of free time. I actually rebelled and ended up despising my parents for a while because of it, which kinda set me back a couple years.



Anyway, I think before any of you make any sort of judgment, try walking in someone else' shoes for a while. Trust me, there's no real "minimum" amount of money you need to make before you can have kids.

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

Right on! I seen my aunts put through her kids into skiiing lessons, paino, Soccer, chinese school, gym class, swimming class. Then when summer comes is off to summer camps......... These extra activites can get really expensive not to mention it is require nowsaday for your kid to be make it in the futire or even get into a famous school..........

Once they grow older there is going to tutor class on to of all those activites........ then there is university which cost even more. Even with all of that there is no telling how well your kid will do against each other. Then if you were to help them secure them a good job you better know some people in the industry to even have a chance for your kid ot make it out the top.

It all requires money which most people don't have........ I hate to say it but if you aren't making near 100k even if you have kids they might not turn out to be very competitive and might just end up stuck being in the poor/middle class struggling in life to make ends meet.

Originally Posted by willystyle

Childcare is expensive in Vancouver, especially when you have 2 children, and in those years where they both need to go to childcare. That's easily $2000/month out of your pocket for those services. If you don't have a reasonable income ($100K+ combined), you probably should consider not having children.

The difference between putting your child in childcare vs. having a stay-at-home parent taking care of them is substantial. Their early childhood development is FAR better in a daycare than at home.

Adjust your standard of living, you two.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Lomac

None of you have kids, do you?

While it does make things a little harder, having kids and raising them with a "below median" income isn't difficult. Yes, daycare costs a lot (in some cases it's actually cheaper for the second parent to quit work and take care of the kid full time), but the government has subsidies in place to help lower income families. I know a bunch of people who have opted for both routes - some sent their kids to daycare while others looked after them at home. Apart from one kid, all these kids have (so far) grown up to be your typical child. So long as you regulate screen time, give them play dates, and have plenty of things for them to do, kids kept at home don't really have an issue.

Yes, children cost money. There's absolutely no doubting that. However, when you do have kids, your priorities change. Suddenly you no longer yearn for that set of Works rims or the latest video game. Like it or not, your kids become your life. You start realizing you have all this extra cash that you didn't know you had before because everything now revolves around them and whatever else you had in your life takes a backseat for the next eighteen years.

I have friend raising kids on incomes that range from technically the poverty line right up to being a multi-millionaire. The only difference I've seen between them all are pointlessly spending extra money on things that aren't needed (c'mon, who really needs to buy a pair of $50 DC shoes for a 6 month old when you're going to need a new pair in another two months anyway?). The children with less well off parents are still getting into the same activities, becoming friends with the same kids, and experiencing things the exact same.



And before anyone else says that if you have less money, the fewer opportunities you have... that's bullshit. Sure, they may not go to Yale or Eton, but who gives a crap. I have friends who grew up with almost no money and they're now high level execs, successful architects, and one who is a multi-award winning film maker in Europe. I also have a couple friends who grew up with an endless supply of money who now mooch off their parents because they couldn't be bothered to go to Uni and make a life for themselves.

Sending your kid away on multiple music lessons, private schools, summer camp, sports, swimming, etc., doesn't necessarily make them any better prepped for life than someone who only gets to experience a fraction of those. I was sent away for almost all of those (except private school.... private school can suck my balls), and I hated almost every experience. I despised my parents for making me constantly do things and not having any sort of free time. I actually rebelled and ended up despising my parents for a while because of it, which kinda set me back a couple years.



Anyway, I think before any of you make any sort of judgment, try walking in someone else' shoes for a while. Trust me, there's no real "minimum" amount of money you need to make before you can have kids.







Adjust your standard of living, you two.

Is very simple when 8/10 kids are taking extra lessons to get ahead and your kids isn't then they aren't getting a head start and is falling behind already. Sure they might turn out OK and decent but having an extra head start, won't hurt. Not to mention a lot of these extra activites helps develop the way how a kids think, guide them the rght way simulate their interests, creativity, athletic skills.

Is it necessary? No.

Think of it this way back with our parents graduating form high school is the norm and getting a degree form University is for the rich and educated people. After you finish University you are almost garuntee a high paying job. Fast forward to today, University degree is the norm, anything less good luck moving up the cooprate world. Sure there are always a few that will make it without much education (same as our parent's time) but how often does that happen? Not very often.

In today's society these so call extra activites, lessons is the norm for kids. Sure they can do without them but can they beat out the other 80% that gone to these activites and or lessons?

[RouRK]

Alberta
The average price for monthly full-time licensed daycare in Alberta is $850

Saskatchewan
Parents from the prairie province pay one of the lowest rates for full-time daycare at an average of $657 a month for a licensed centre.

Manitoba
Similar to fellow prairie province Saskatchewan, Manitoba has relatively affordable childcare. The average cost is around $650 per child

Quebec
The province of Quebec is a model many other provinces point to for fully subsidized, affordable childcare. Due to a decade-old decision from the provincial government, parents pay a fraction of what other parents pay in non-subsidized provinces: between $7 and $10 a day for full-time (up to 10 consecutive hours) licensed care.


Ontario
Cost for full-time daycare in Ontario is a little higher, at around $960 per child for a full-time slot.

Nova Scotians really catch a break with the average price of only $742 a month.

Newfoundland and Labrador
Despite its status as a small province, the price for full-time care isn’t small — with the average coming in around $815 a month for full-time care.


New Brunswick
This province has the second-lowest rate out of all the provinces at just $683 per child for full-time services.


daycare is tooooo expensive.


Quebec’s child-care scheme pays for itself, economist | Toronto Star

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

Is very simple when 8/10 kids are taking extra lessons to get ahead and your kids isn't then they aren't getting a head start and is falling behind already. Sure they might turn out OK and decent but having an extra head start, won't hurt. Not to mention a lot of these extra activites helps develop the way how a kids think, guide them the rght way simulate their interests, creativity, athletic skills.

Oh, I don't disagree that having a head start helps. Again, there's no denying that. All I'm trying to say is that families who are financially less well off don't really present disadvantages to their children. At least not parents who actually care for their kids.

That said, it's not like there aren't plenty of after school programs for kids that are low on costs, not to mention various subsidized help for other activities. The point is parents make things work for their kids. If it means cutting down on eating out, going on vacations, or whatever... most parents are willing to sacrifice pretty much anything so long as it helps their children out.

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Ding ding ding!

Can't stand these stories on the news of some family living in Port Moody saying they can't afford to buy a home that will be suitable for their 3 young children, gee maybe you should have planned that a little better then?
Posted via RS Mobile

don't judge until you've walked 1000 miles in their shoes

people change
jobs changes
house market changes
shit happens

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Lomac

Oh, I don't disagree that having a head start helps. Again, there's no denying that. All I'm trying to say is that families who are financially less well off don't really present disadvantages to their children. At least not parents who actually care for their kids.

That said, it's not like there aren't plenty of after school programs for kids that are low on costs, not to mention various subsidized help for other activities. The point is parents make things work for their kids. If it means cutting down on eating out, going on vacations, or whatever... most parents are willing to sacrifice pretty much anything so long as it helps their children out.

Is just tough these days......... for us who works and got a decent job we can still manage but for those low income is really hard(by low I mean making min wage).

And it seems is only going to get harder and harder........

[THORISHERE]

I would NEVER put my children (when I have them) in childcare.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

don't judge until you've walked 1000 miles in their shoes

people change
jobs changes
house market changes
shit happens

That could be said about anything..having children is a choice
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[dinosaur]

Originally Posted by THORISHERE

I would NEVER put my children (when I have them) in childcare.

That is a pretty bold statement.

[Tapioca]

IMHO, kids are being put into too many activities these days. I had a few extra curricular activities when I was a kid: swimming lessons, French lessons, and day camp and I can say that none of them really helped me become the person I am today. I learned the most from unstructured play with my friends and peers on the school grounds and after school in the alleys playing street hockey or playing basketball.

My parents were not wealthy by any means, but I think I turned out okay. Let's take stock of the evidence, shall we?

- Top scholar of my graduating class in high school (my name is on a wall somewhere)
- Elected class valedictorian
- Dean's list at UBC
- Accomplished public speaker
- Master degree candidate
- A very decent job that pays the mortgage
- A partner who makes more money that I do

I never had a tutor, I never played a musical instrument (other than the trumpet in Grade 7), and I went to a public school.
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[quasi]

I have a 6 year old son and we never had another almost soley because of the costs of daycare. It starts off really expensive and gets cheaper as they get older which is nice. Now I have a 7 year old girl as well which we have custody of so I have two kids in two different schools and two different daycare, you want to talk about a pain in the ass and priorities? At the end of the day we do what we do because we love them. They are the priority and get treated as such.

Daycare has been great for our son, find a good daycare and they will mould your child into a great little person when you can't be around because you're working. We had our son in a private daycare between 1-3 years old and she taught him how to talk, it was funny because she had an english accent and his early words also had an english accent because he was around her so much.

The second daycare was run out of a church and was an awesome daycare. Again they did so many learning activities, it was very structured and playtime wasn't until the last part of the day almost like a real school.

He's now in before and afterschool care that is ran out of his school. Again a great place, lots of good daycare people there. He gets to play with a lot of the kids from his class which he enjoys. They do field trips on pro D days like science world or captain kids or something to burn energy. Again I cannot complain it's been really good for him.

The great thing about daycare is your kids get to socialize with other kids all the time, they learn about structure (assuming the daycare is run right) and how to share which is really important if they're an only child. There is also the language skill thing, they are talking to each other, learning from each other constantly hearing the daycare providers interact it all help there speech.

I'm not saying daycare will do all the work but they do a lot of it. You still have to spend time with them after work reading, coloring and teaching. Then there is all the extra curicular stuff. My son is into football, swimming and he wants to learn martial arts and all the activities are time consuming. That doesn't even factor in the monthly birthday invites.

All of that said the cost is really high. Those who are lucky enough to have family who can look after your kids for you well at work really appreciate what they do for you. My parents moved away, my wifes mother is deceased and we don't have anyone where we live to watch our kids. I can't remember the last time my wife and I went out just the two of us but that wraps it all up because sacrafice is what being a parent is all about.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

IMHO, kids are being put into too many activities these days. I had a few extra curricular activities when I was a kid: swimming lessons, French lessons, and day camp and I can say that none of them really helped me become the person I am today. I learned the most from unstructured play with my friends and peers on the school grounds and after school in the alleys playing street hockey or playing basketball.

My parents were not wealthy by any means, but I think I turned out okay. Let's take stock of the evidence, shall we?

- Top scholar of my graduating class in high school (my name is on a wall somewhere)
- Elected class valedictorian
- Dean's list at UBC
- Accomplished public speaker
- Master degree candidate
- A very decent job that pays the mortgage
- A partner who makes more money that I do

I never had a tutor, I never played a musical instrument (other than the trumpet in Grade 7), and I went to a public school.
Posted via RS Mobile

If you see your neighbour's kid all taking extra class, activites wouldn't you want your kids to as well to even the playing field?

This might be off topic but I feel in terms of public education level Canada is falling behind..... I got several friends who are teachers range from teaching gr1 to gr5 and they all claims it is almost impossible to fail a student. So what we do is keep pushing students up even though they are not at the level of the education for fear or failing them will destory their self-esteen.

So after high school we hav ea ton of graduates who should have fail but were giving a pass..... this is not healthy for society at all........

[snails]

daycare or homecare, pretty much comes down to the quality given, ei, me and the ex gf used to spend hours with her little brother reading, games, tests, even the park on a daily basis and he was one of the smartest kids ive ever met and this was pre elementry! once he got into school he was well ahead of all the other kids, that being said, a good day care that actually focuses on development rather then baby sitting might be good also, like anything with life, you get what you put in, little effort will show little results.


i for one have no plans on having kids for many years "im 22" based on my childhood and the struggles my parents faced "average income 130-140k a year combined" its too hard to get ahead now, and to hard to own anything so it will be my main focus so my children get the attention and help they need growing up.

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

That could be said about anything..having children is a choice
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Yes, it is. However, your home life can change dramatically, often with only a moment's notice.

My best friend was married for a few years, had two kids, and was making good money (her ex pulled in huge coin working the oil fields). However, he got into drugs, cheated on her (once with a 14 year old, gross enough), and spent all their money on random shit that they didn't need. She tried to save enough money every month to pay for bills but he would still manage to get a hold of that cash and spend it on drugs anyway. Didn't help that he was physically abusive to her as well.

Then one day she had enough, packed up a U-Haul while he was out of town working, grabbed the kids, and fled the province and went to her parents. The husband, after finding out what happened, skipped town and left her tens of thousands of dollars in debt because he decided to stop working. This was four years ago and she only recently managed to pay off every debt that he left her, all the while raising two little girls on her own while working low paying (albeit higher than minimum wage) jobs. I would help out when I could with bills or babysitting, but it was basically all her... all on minimum income.

I realize that this is an extreme example, but the point is that you can't judge someone's situation without hearing the whole story first.