Sentencing begins for killer of Poonam Randhawa

[van_city23]

^ Exactly, the family prevented justice to the victim's family. It's completely normal for a family to try to protect the child but the family also knows the risks of doing it. If the risk is worth it, do it and if not, then don't do it. In this case, seems like they thought the risk of protecting their child was worth it and now they have to live with the consequences. At the end of the way, they acted unlawfully. If nothing happens here, then where do you draw the line? Leads to too many "what if" cases.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Originally Posted by PJ

Sorry, but this is just really naive. I tried to bite my tongue but your dismissive assumptions are just very wrong.

Yes, what's done is done, like you kept emphasizing. But that doesn't mean there won't be consequences. The victim's family has no reason to ease up on any possible charges against anything or anyone helping the murderer.

You keep trying to justify the actions of the murderer's family. What about seeing it from the victim's family?

Your daughter was murdered, and the killer has been living freely (relatively speaking) for the last 12 years. You find out his family has been funding the murderer's new life, and they think they should get off scot-free?

It's a shitty situation for everyone. But if your daughter was killed, I would sure hope that you try to press for every ounce of justice you could get.

yeah the family should accept their daughter is dead.

and the family of the murderer should accept their son is going to prison.

lol. is that not already evened out?

i wouldn't blame the family for trying to hide him. because i'd do the exact same thing.

i'd only see myself in them. they did exactly what i'd do.

so what can you do? lol

think of it from the victim's family? yeah... i'd go kill the fucking guy.
but i still wouldn't blame the family for protecting their child.

it's like.. what the fuck do u think is gonna happen. they're gonna tell their kid to come home and spring a trap on him and deliver him to the cops with a bow and tie? are you guys insane?

[PJ]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

he is just an extension of myself. anything he is capable of, i am capable of. we're the same animal regardless of anything else.
..
it's frightening how disloyal some of you guys are to your own blood.
family is like a fucking gang. if you fuck up, there's always someone there to back you up no matter what. and vice versa. NO MATTER WHAT.
they're your blood. there's no further explanation needed.
..
he might of done wrong, but it doesn't mean you break your bond, your loyalty, and your connection as a parent.
..
any parent, at WORST, should just keep their mouth shut and turn a blind eye. you're existence as a parent, your sole purpose, is the protect your child NO MATTER WHAT.
..
any action can be forgiven. ANY. otherwise you're just a morale bigot.

I hate to keep pressing you, but again, this is very naive.

Just because your child's a killer doesn't mean you are. You could've done everything in the parenting bible correctly. Your kid's choices are his/her own choices. Not yours.

You seem to be very insistent here, so let me ask you this. What if your child killed your wife? Your parents? Your brother? Would you still stand behind him?

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

no, because that violates the fact that you're turning against your own blood.
as you can see im very consistent. blood is priority. if you turn on your own blood, you endanger your bloodline. that is unacceptable.
you should be enforcing your bloodline on others. not destroying yourself.
the point is protecting your bloodline. the DNA.


when i say he is the same animal as you are... i mean whatever he is capable of.. you are capable of is as well.
i don't care what you say. everyone has the potential to be a murderer. anything one person can do, another person can do. you just have to manipulate the situation till they're pressed to do it. given enough scenarios and enough time, you can make anyone do anything.

i already said your kids choices are his choices. but you are still a parent. no matter what his choices are. it doesn't change the fact that he is under your evolutionary umbrella. you brought him into this world. that's all there is to it.


much like owning a dog. you're responsible for its well being, and it's actions, no matter what.
now your son isn't a dog. he's a human being, and of your own blood, so that makes your responsibility even greater.



my point of view is a strategic and tactical view. logical.
if this were a war of some sort. i would never ever even consider any family, to ever turn in their son to the enemy. it would just be plain down right retarded to even consider that.

so... why are you guys considering it? are you guys REALLY surprised they're hiding their son?
wouldn't you guys be more surprised if they jumped their own son? well?

you think the justice system and cops REALLY considered using the tactic of "hey... why don't you just turn your son in?"
they might of tried and threw it out there just for fucks sakes, maybe the small 0.00001% chance that it might work.
but no one with half a brain would expect them to ever do that. NO ONE.

that'd be too easy. expecting everyone to turn on their own just cuz you represent the "law".

[PJ]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

i don't care what you say. everyone has the potential to be a murderer. anything one person can do, another person can do. you just have to manipulate the situation till they're pressed to do it. given enough scenarios and enough time, you can make anyone do anything.

Sure, with the right scenario, you can make the pope streak through the Superbowl. But this is not a justified situation. That girl was fucking innocent.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Originally Posted by PJ

Sure, with the right scenario, you can make the pope streak through the Superbowl. But this is not a justified situation. That girl was fucking innocent.

i don't care about the girl. she's dead. she's not alive and we're arguing whether or not she should be killed. she's gone. dead.


im focusing on the fact that you guys are blaming the family for helping their own blood. as if you guys wouldn't do it yourself lol.

you guys all sound like you'd turn on your own family the moment the law dictates it.

if your family member was wanted for tax evasion would you turn him in?
what about murder? or an international crime? or spitting on someone's face?

dude it's all the same. the fact is, you wouldn't turn them in. you would turn a blind eye and just say u dont know.


you live in 1940's germany, people don't know you're a jew. the law dictates that you should turn in your cousins and shit. are you gonna do it?
IT'S THE LAW.
THE JEWs ARE STEALING BUSINESS. THEY'RE EVIL. THEY'RE THE ENEMY OF THE STATE. HARBORING A JEW IS WORSE THAN MURDER!

WELL WHAT NOW? you gonna turn them in? WELL? if your answer is no. then you just contradicted yourself and proved my point.
you'll protect your own kind regardless of what the law says.


laws are subjective.

morals are subjective.

[PJ]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

my point of view is a strategic and tactical view. logical.
if this were a war of some sort. i would never ever even consider any family, to ever turn in their son to the enemy. it would just be plain down right retarded to even consider that.

so... why are you guys considering it? are you guys REALLY surprised they're hiding their son?
wouldn't you guys be more surprised if they jumped their own son? well?

you think the justice system and cops REALLY considered using the tactic of "hey... why don't you just turn your son in?"
they might of tried and threw it out there just for fucks sakes, maybe the small 0.00001% chance that it might work.
but no one with half a brain would expect them to ever do that. NO ONE.

that'd be too easy. expecting everyone to turn on their own just cuz you represent the "law".

It's one thing to keep your mouth shut when approached by the law and say you don't know anything.

But the family was FUNDING his false identity. INVESTING into a murderer to get off scot-free.

And honestly, I really don't know what I'd do if I were the family. Do you help get your kid off the hook without a slap on the wrist after a murder?

If you can answer so blatantly, maybe you really are a better person and parent that I'd be.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Originally Posted by PJ

It's one thing to keep your mouth shut when approached by the law and say you don't know anything.

But the family was FUNDING his false identity. INVESTING into a murderer to get off scot-free.

And honestly, I really don't know what I'd do if I were the family. Do you help get your kid off the hook without a slap on the wrist after a murder?

If you can answer so blatantly, maybe you really are a better person and parent that I'd be.

in the eyes of the law, turning a blind eye and helping, is the same thing. so... it's the same thing. so you might as well help. you have no choice.
if you're gonna turn a blind eye, you are actively choosing to help him in some way. hoping he can get away with it. so in the eyes of the law you're already doing wrong. so you might as well increase his % chance by helping. right? it's only logical. if you're already not gonna turn on him... it's only logical to help as much as you can.. up to the amount of risk you're willing to take.

yeah i would be a better parent lol. if my son were hitler, i'd slap him over the head for killing people, but praise him for getting a nation to follow his dream. he might not of executed the dream right. but he still achieved things many people couldn't even if they had 1000 lives to try.

he's still my son.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

THAT being said.

i would expect to get a slap on the wrist for helping my son. i would even volunteer to take his place in prison.

but as a judge, i would make it light. as a judge i would understand that they basically had no choice. you wouldn't reward them for turning in their own son would you?
it's a difficult situation. and they had no real choice.

[Manic!]

Ulic Qel-Droma what if he killed again? How many would you let him kill?

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

if he killed... how? if he killed another innocent person based on anger and feelings and all that.

then i'd have to turn a blind eye. i still wouldn't turn him in. i'd probably still give him a big wad of money... then just tell him he has to live his own life now.

his constant mistakes are endangering the family (bloodline). he is bringing risk to the family. there could be revenge killings. i have to protect the bloodline first.

i am assuming i have other children, and a wife, or other extended family that could be put in danger if he continues his ways. losing 1 son is better than losing more than 1. it's just a risk assessment if you strip away the feelings.

[PJ]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

if your family member was wanted for tax evasion would you turn him in?
what about murder? or an international crime? or spitting on someone's face?

dude it's all the same. the fact is, you wouldn't turn them in. you would turn a blind eye and just say u dont know.

We're talking a human being's life. How is that the same as avoiding taxes?

laws are subjective.

Not so much.

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

yeah i would be a better parent lol. if my son were hitler, i'd slap him over the head for killing people

Contradictory.


I praise your dismissive blatancy, but we're talking about people's lives. The innocent girl that died had a mother. A father. Brothers. Sisters. Friends. A future.

This isn't a simple "stand by my family no matter what, because blood." If you had a bright future, and your brothers were criminals, would you sacrifice your own livelihood?

If you live by the "Whoops, oh well. What's done is done. Give me my slap on the wrist," attitude, then I retract the possibility of you being a better person.

As much as it would devastate me, if my family member took an innocent life, I don't know if I would throw myself out there for them. Not saying it's a certain yes or no, but I definitely can't answer as unashamedly as you can. If they committed ANY OTHER crime, then sure. Who cares. Taxes, theft, vandalism. That can all be fixed with money. But this is cold-blooded murder we're talking about.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Originally Posted by PJ

We're talking a human being's life. How is that the same as avoiding taxes?

because the crime has already been committed. we're not talking about serial killer or a chronic criminal.

the dude has been on the run. he hasn't killed anyone else. it was a one time thing in his life (at least for now anyway, but we have to take it at face value).

stopping him back then, now, or in the future, makes no difference.

he committed crime X once (X meaning any crime)... that's it...

catching him past present or future doesn't bring a dead person back, nor does it change anything... at all.

Originally Posted by PJ

Not so much.

laws are subjective.
if enough people want it changed, it will be changed.
laws are different across the globe.
the law could be something in the past... something else now, and something else in the future.

Originally Posted by PJ

Contradictory.

how is it contradictory?

Originally Posted by PJ

I praise your dismissive blatancy, but we're talking about people's lives. The innocent girl that died had a mother. A father. Brothers. Sisters. Friends. A future.

yeah and? she's dead. we're not fixing anything by doing anything.
we're just dishing out the punishment for the crime he committed. doesn't matter if the punishment is dished out back then, now or in the future. in the end it's all the same.

Originally Posted by PJ

This isn't a simple "stand by my family no matter what, because blood." If you had a bright future, and your brothers were criminals, would you sacrifice your own livelihood?

depends on what i said before. depends on how much risk they bring. if they're just petty criminals or one time criminal, whatever.

If they're professional criminals, or serial killers, that's different. I have to protect the greater family before 1 individual. that is if i feel they are worthy of the protection.

subjective things like if he was a favourite or how i feel about about the whole situation matter as well. it's not so black and white.

Originally Posted by PJ

If you live by the "Whoops, oh well. What's done is done. Give me my slap on the wrist," attitude, then I retract the possibility of you being a better person.

it's not an attitude, it's reality. i don't care what the attitude toward it is. the reality is, it's done. what you gonna do, press a magic button and rewind time?

put the criminal under intense torture?

whatever you choose to do or think to do, doesn't change the fact that it is done. you have no power over anything any more.

Originally Posted by PJ

As much as it would devastate me, if my family member took an innocent life, I don't know if I would throw myself out there for them. Not saying it's a certain yes or no, but I definitely can't answer as unashamedly as you can. If they committed ANY OTHER crime, then sure. Who cares. Taxes, theft, vandalism. That can all be fixed with money. But this is cold-blooded murder we're talking about.

you can't answer so definitely because you have no solid idea as what your values exactly are, and where your values stand. You haven't figured the definition for what your definition of morals and where they stand against your other values in life.

and lastly, you haven't decided if you would fight to the death to defend those values if you had to. if you can't defend a value with your life, then you are uncertain, and easily persuaded and corrupted.


My stance toward most things are very neutral.
to me, morals are very loose. they are not black and white.
they are very malleable, depending on the situation and who is involved.
a life can worthless, and in another situation a life can priceless.

to me the family is innocent. the son is not.

if the family were there, with the get away car. or supplied him with the weapons to kill the girl, they would be directly involved and guilty.

but they weren't. The situation presented to them, any good family (family first, citizen second), would help their own. those are my values, that is my code.

I would sacrifice myself to harbour a family member depending on what punishment they're going to get. If they're gonna get some prison time it's not so bad. I believe the Canadian prison system isn't that bad at all. just do your time and you'll be fine (but you must understand the family and the guy probably have no idea what prison is like, and they have a stereotypical view of anal rape and all that typical prison associated stuff, which is NOT true at all. We're not as fucked in the head as americans... so you have to understand... to the understanding of the parents, why would they want your kid to get anally raped and beat up everyday? no matter what he did, no parent would ever want their kid to suffer like that).

I always believe actions for the team (family in this situation) is always greater over the self.

I believe the self, is the least valuable thing in life.
Individuality and egocentric actions, are the lowest form of existence (given a situation where the choice is to help the team, or the self).

perhaps you understand my decisions now.




I bet you if we duplicated similar situations with indian families or any asian family (i cannot speak for any other race), 8/10+ would harbor their child. It is socially expected. Culturally expected.

The same twisted logic, could be said about, if someone breaks into your home, and you get freaked out and beat them or shoot them cuz you're fucking scared. and the law puts you in prison.
what do you expect? the victim is scared. they will act on instinct. and protect themselves. you cannot punish instinct. that is retarded. because we all have the same instincts. protect your own, protect yourself.
when faced with that kind of situation, are you really punishing the action or what has been coded into us for millions of years?

You have to be a robot to be so unemotional that you so easily turn in your family.
for... how many would turn yourselves in? and how easy is that? so why would it be any easier for a parent to turn in their own child, when in fact most parents would trade places with their kids or sacrifice themselves for their kids?

you guys asking the impossible.

[twitchyzero]

give me a break

it's one thing to hesitate turning your child in for murder...it's another helping him get new identity, finger prints, lying to the police about his whereabouts. There's family out there that deserves to see justice served to the killer....and here you are suggesting they just go out and kill him? lol. You know what they say bout "an eye for an eye"

Where do you draw the line? If a family is willing to do all that what's to say they weren't accessory to the actual murder and helped dispose the body.

BTW, I just found Justice Bao's ancestors