Fallout over HootSuite's practice of hiring unpaid interns Quote:
The smoking gun Reddit post (with images of the original job description): Ryl comments on Hootsuite is hiring unpaid Interns, this is illegal in BC. More news links: Vancouver Sun Global Now on a personal note: As someone who intends to get his degree in computer science, the shift to unpaid internships and foreign workers worries me. Skilled developers are in demand, but employers who want to circumvent the rules only serve to depress wages. Are my worries unfounded? |
Nope, your worries aren't unfounded at all. Lots of companies are offering "internships" because people are chasing jobs so badly they'll work for free hoping that they'll land a job at the end...when really, there's just as many hungry people who are waiting at the end. The only people they want to hire are the ones who would never work for free because either they already have, or they don't need to. -edit- Also, I fixed your article quote. |
Well, there's no use losing sleep over it. I learned a while ago not to stress out over things that you can't control. Here's what I think. This may be more common in IT fields than in software fields. A developer worth his shit (read: worth his shit) who does co-op and has side programming projects shouldn't have this problem. Or, he can move to Seattle, San Francisco or Austin and make megabucks. .NET/C# programmers can make $60-70k out of college working in Redmond. :troll: BBL |
Based on my experience, I see a lot of the build/dev work being outsourced to countries simply because its cheaper and the fact it means they could get more resource to build the solution to meet aggressive deadlines. Seeing that you are a still a student, I would suggest you expand your skill set to functional roles as well.. That is to build yourself up as a professional who analyses problems, gather requirements, translate those requirements into a technical solution. How you should differentiate yourself is now based on your analytical ability and drive to deliver a fitting solution.. In another words - look more to a ba/sa route - note just a dev role (unless you are really darn good at it) Just my 2 cents, I'm sure others would have better insights to aid you. Posted via RS Mobile |
Obviously code monkeys can be brought in from China or India. Rote memorization is king in those countries-they can hash out a program given explicit instructions and a deadline, but can they think up the concept for the program or solution in the first place? That's why I think a flexible education focusing on critical thinking, creativity and intellectual curiosity (such as a BSc program from a reputable university, with economics and business electives) will win out in the end. Those kinds of jobs can't be outsourced. It's also why engineers who are great communicators make insane amounts of money. BBL |
This is such a common practice in the communications industry its sickening, especially in advertising agencies. Work for free for 3-6 months and then you don't get hired in the end because there's 10 other people willing to work for free. But hey, at least you get the experience for when you apply for another internship! :badpokerface: |
Never did an internship position but I always assumed that it was paid even though it was at minimum wage. Hopefully HootSuite fixes this as they seem to be a pretty good company. I've been out of school and doing software development for almost 2 years now. I think the best thing you can do while at school is to learn current mobile and web technologies. It's what's in demand right now and I'm not sure if it's being taught in school. Get accustomed really accustomed with Objective-C, Java, and the HTML5 technology. It'll be great skills to have in the long run when applying for jobs. Am I afraid to lose my job to offshore coders? No. If it's a pretty straightforward application that'll never need updates ever again then offshore coders can do that no problem. Take a couple of them and they'll hack something up for you in no time. |
javascript :) |
^Pretty big trend right now too. Right once in JavaScript deploy everywhere lol. Has it's pros and cons but I prefer native |
curious, why do you prefer native? |
don't worry op its not so much engineering jobs that are being unpaid, it's things like social media and blogging i believe. Developers are still very much valued in this town Posted via RS Mobile |
I thought intern-ships were supposed to be paid. A prof told me that and it's usually international companies which avoid paying interns and HooteSuite seems like a north american company. |
Quote:
|
I'm in the IT recruitment industry and what's in demand right now in Vancouver is Linux admin guys, network security, middleware guys |
The best interns would never apply to this type of company. |
|
Quote:
But to be honest, if you're just making a pretty simple app that are just a couple screens with a few buttons. A HTML5/javascript solution would probably be best. (I'm currently doing a lot more HTML5 dev at work) |
Yeah, it seems pretty simple to me: they lay out the terms of internship in advance, you agree to them, you walk into the situation with both eyes open, you have nothing to complain about. They could want you to work 120 hours/week - if you agree to it, you should have nothing to complain about. Don't like the terms, don't take the position. Pretty easy, no? It's one thing if it's a paying job that you're pretty much "forced" to take to make ends meet, feed your family, etc. - something where saying yes is your only viable option of survival. But a position that's inherently unpaid? Just say fucking NO. Why do companies do it? Because they know suckers... er, people will take the positions, and they can get stuff done that they would normally have to pay employees for. If people start refusing to work for free, that would end. Sure it may be a skeezy way to do business, but the solution is simple: DON'T PLAY ALONG. I can't believe people make this so bleeding complicated. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN FUCKING CHOICES. |
^the interns who signed the contract and are working are not the ones complaining. Is people who don't want to work for free that are. People who take free jobs encourage this status quo and fuck it up for others who have now a more limited job pool Hootsuite make shit load of money and claim to be social pionerrs. In reality they buy out influencers and use free labor to put out lots of content. Their entire culture is fake as hell. Posted via RS Mobile |
Then instead of crying to the media and government like whiny bitches, the complainers should be convincing the interns not to take those positions. Or be prepared to do those same jobs for the same remuneration (or lack thereof). Or go work at McDonalds. |
Its a tough job market. Interns usually have no work experience and you gotta start somewhere since everywhere requires 1-2 years of experience. And even if those positions are paid, you would have the boss pulling you outside, asking if you could come in 6, if you could clean up his/her poop until 10,12. Of course HR wouldnt know about this and you dont get paid a dime even though you're only slightly above minimum wage. You have 3 months left in the contract. What you're going to say no and risk not having a badass recommendation letter? Most people would bite the bullet and ride it out. That is why these companies can milk this source of free labor. It's the North American sweatshop experience. Posted via RS Mobile |
It's hard to lay blame at the companies because after all, it takes two to tango and there are many people who are willing to work for free. In the end, companies are taking advantage of the fact that people in their 20s are staying at home much longer than they used to and don't actually have to support themselves. What can you do? Posted via RS Mobile |
Quote:
I'm not sure about other industries but in communications/advertising, entry level jobs require 1-2 years experience for some dumb reason. Your only choice is to intern and even getting the internship is competitive as hell. There are people who intern just to get the more prestigious internship that MIGHT get them the job. |
Another reason for the explosion of internships is that the majority of kids coming out of school these days want desk jobs (guilty as charged). Supply and demand. Posted via RS Mobile |
Quote:
Posted via RS Mobile |
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:46 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Revscene.net cannot be held accountable for the actions of its members nor does the opinions of the members represent that of Revscene.net