Auto Racing v. Nature Parks

[Lomac]

I'm sure most of you are unfamiliar with the happenings of Langley, but bear with me here.

A Metro Vancouver committee is considering a proposal to reopen the Langley Speedway that closed almost three decades ago.

The Langley Speedway was once a crown jewel of car racing in the area, hosting events as big as Nascar.

But the track now sits empty, having closed in 1984 due to failing popularity.

"We think that if we partnered with Metro Vancouver and the community, it could again be a significant revenue generator for the community and for the parks," said Murray Jones, President of the Langley Speedway Historical Society.

The group has put forward a proposal to bring back racing every second Saturday during the summer.

Since the track closed, walking trails have sprung up in the surrounding Campbell Valley Regional Park. Some park users say a return to racing would result in too much noise pollution and disruption.

"I can't see how having Langley Speedway will do anything but negatively impact every other user of this park," says Shelagh Niblock, who rides at the equestrian park 600 metres from the track.

Metro Vancouver's environment and parks committee has not made any decision on the future of the track, but is planning an extensive visit before deciding its fate next month.

Bid to reopen Langley Speedway - British Columbia - CBC News

Some of you older members are probably familiar with my old Racetracks of BC thread from a few years back and one of the tracks I showcased in there was this very oval. Over the past couple years, a historical preservation group has restored much of the old track and cleared out most of the bush that had grown over the old slopes where the stands once stood. Recently, as mentioned in the quoted article, there have been talks about reopening this track which, naturally, has created a fairly strong outcry from equestrian owners and hikers alike, citing noise pollution wreaking havoc on the park.

I live a few blocks from this place and while I understand the worries people have about hearing an unmuffled Stock car spoiling the tranquility of their morning weekend walks, even bringing up the suggestion that introducing a specific DB restriction in order to pass Tech has been met with scorn.

My family is divided on this topic. Well, I should say my parents are all for keeping racing out while I, naturally, want to allow it again. Despite many people's understanding that car enthusiasts need a place to race their cars, no one is willing to allow it to happen in their own backyard. I've pointed out numerous examples showing tracks that once existed and then shut down for development reasons, existing locations that were shut down (ie: Boundary Bay), and proposed tracks with heavy backing that were never given the green light due to NIMBYism. And yet here we are, with an existing track that needs little more than rebuilding a grandstand and it's ready for racing.

I realize that since this is a 3/8th's oval, very few of you would ever be interested in making use of this track, but what this ultimately is about is allowing proper auto racing back into the Lower Mainland. Mission is "too far" for many of you to visit (not to mention Ashcroft, Agassiz or Saratoga), but the potential exists that should this track be approved to be reopened, perhaps the chance of another track closer to Vancouver being built becomes just slightly stronger.

Thoughts?

[bloodmack]

yes! then lay down some more track within the middle of the oval and drift all teh cornerz!

Honestly, people who complain about because racecars don't realize we have extremely limited options. There are 365 days in a year you can't spare a few of those days for some good old legal spirited driving? It's not like we're gonna rape a pillage your neighbourhood.

[Soundy]

"'I can't see how having Langley Speedway will do anything but negatively impact every other user of this park,' says Shelagh Niblock, who rides at the equestrian park 600 metres from the track."

Oh yeah, like your horses don't stink the place up.

How often would race events happen... few hours every other weekend? 20, maybe 30 hours a month? So people can't enjoy the park in peace the other 780 hours? FUCK YOU, CAR PEOPLE, THIS PARK IS ALL MINE AND NOBODY ELSE GETS A SAY!

[sdubfid]

1986

2006

[Soundy]

^Westwood Plateau? Those don't even look like the same location - water channel in the background on the lower pic, only a small lake on the upper, for example.

[MindBomber]

I'm strongly opposed to re-introducing auto racing to Campbell Valley Park.

Langley Speedway was closed decades ago, and at that time its claim to the site ended. Cyclists, hikers, equestrians, birders, historians, and others took the opportunity to stake claims to the site, and have transformed it into its present condition. The network of cycling and hiking trails have continually been expanded. The birders have come to enjoy the very diverse wildlife, which would likely be driven away by excessive noise. The historians have established seven individual historic sites. The equestrians have operated a non-profit society for over twenty-five years, volunteering time and funds to build arenas, jumps, and trails for communal use. The most expensive and important investment by the equestrian society are the arenas, which hosts events every weekend. The arenas are in close proximity to the track, and would be completely unusable during races (horses would spook).

Neighbors also must be considered. A YMCA Camp, a number of private equestrian centers, and private homes have been constructed since the closing of the track. The noise from the track would fundamentally interfere with these stake holders.

Mission is not a significantly further distance to travel, comparable in most cases, and is a significantly superior facility.

It would also cost hundreds of thousands to make the speedway race ready, maybe millions.

Originally Posted by Soundy

"'I can't see how having Langley Speedway will do anything but negatively impact every other user of this park,' says Shelagh Niblock, who rides at the equestrian park 600 metres from the track."

Oh yeah, like your horses don't stink the place up.

Horses don't stink up the place. A visitor may smell a horse, but they'd need to be within a couple meters of one. The equestrian and cycling/hiking trails are also separate, although hikers/cyclists can use the equestrian ones.

How often would race events happen... few hours every other weekend? 20, maybe 30 hours a month? So people can't enjoy the park in peace the other 780 hours? FUCK YOU, CAR PEOPLE, THIS PARK IS ALL MINE AND NOBODY ELSE GETS A SAY!

That's an unfair comparison. The important consideration is weekend hours/days, and re-opening the speedway would take up 25% of them - that's a lot. It's open to deliberation, the equestrians don't hold a veto. The majority decision will rule, and car people have been a significant minority for many, many years.

[sdubfid]

Originally Posted by Soundy

^Westwood Plateau? Those don't even look like the same location - water channel in the background on the lower pic, only a small lake on the upper, for example.

Yes westwood plateau, same location, just different angles. You can see the sulfur piles in Port Moody for reference.

[jackal]

i don't see it as "they've staked a claim to the land" the track is still there. the equestrian and others decided to move in the area around an old track. they hand no guarantees the track would remain closed. i think it would be an incredible opportunity to grow the automotive culture which has been crushed by box 1 and box 2 vi's.

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by MindBomber

Mission is not a significantly further distance to travel, comparable in most cases, and is a significantly superior facility.

+1 this

I can't see many racers these days making good use of a 1/4 mi oval
but what do we know...most of the threads in our auto chat are pretty much Timposts riddled with bodykits

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langley...itish_Columbia) so strange my wiki link isn't working
https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Campbe...id=po-20904898

[320icar]

Originally Posted by jackal

... i think it would be an incredible opportunity to grow the automotive culture which has been crushed by box 1 and box 2 vi's.

THISSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!¡!¡¡!¡!!!
Posted via RS Mobile

[jackal]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

+1 this

I can't see many racers these days making good use of a 1/4 mi oval
but what do we know...most of the threads in our auto chat are pretty much Timposts riddled with bodykits

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langley...itish_Columbia) so strange my wiki link isn't working
https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=Campbe...id=po-20904898

for one mission won't allow drifting. affects me, but not everyone.
and lets be honest. the number of people on this forums who actually use their cars for motorsports is negligible compared to the user base. the auto chat is just anything scraped off the web car related. the people into motorsports are not stupid enough to use revscene to find legitimate events.

[MindBomber]

Originally Posted by jackal

for one mission won't allow drifting. affects me, but not everyone.
and lets be honest. the number of people on this forums who actually use their cars for motorsports is negligible compared to the user base. the auto chat is just anything scraped off the web car related. the people into motorsports are not stupid enough to use revscene to find legitimate events.

The number of people interested in motorsports is negligible in most all car communities, whether import, domestic, classic, modern, exotic, or otherwise; and of those interested in motorsports even fewer would make use of a short circle track. Vancouverites who aspire to own a drift or circle track car have limited options, but this isn't California, and that's unlikely to ever change, so learn to enjoy the drive to Agassiz.

I've attended many drag racing events at Mission, and the stands are always half empty. I've attended autox events, and the number of participants is small, and this is a much more accessible activity than circle track racing. I would more strongly consider the Langley Speedway re-opening proposal were motorsports more popular but they aren't; that's why the track closed, that's why it will remain closed.

The last count shows approximately 4500 horse owners in Langley and essentially all make use of Campbell Valley, so speaking strictly on numbers, there would need to be 1400 race car owners to make a 25% time sacrifice fair. I'd be willing to bet their are less than 100 cars that could run that track in Langley.

I doubt MRP will stay open indefinitely either; almost undoubtedly, it will go the way of westwood plateau within all our times.

[Yodamaster]

I find that the same people who oppose these revivals are the same people that complain about anything car related on private property.

For most hobbies we have places to go, rocketry, guns, snowboarding. Yet, people are against a racetrack that is only used for three months of the year. MRP is great for drag racing and club motorsports events, no drifting, no hooning in general.

If the public and the police seriously expect hooning and racing to stay off the streets and parking lots of this province, they will accept the fact that facilities need to be made available.

[godwin]

I thought a significant different between Westwood plateau vs Langley is Westwood Plateau was private land and Langley is public parks land.

The fact is land in the lower mainland is expensive and it won't get significantly cheaper. Autosport is a sport for the wealthy, most people who are wealthy would do their due diligence and cost benefit ratio and realize the paying market in lower mainland is very small, plenty of hard core people cross the border anyways.

Honestly I see a bigger potential for something around the Kelowna where it is reasonable for people from Ab and BC to participate.

[gars]

I think that land within city limits will always have to abide by city by-laws. That's one of the big issues that all the Autocross Clubs face at the BC Drivers Center in Pitt Meadows. There is no exceptions for motorsports, just a very vague ruling with regards to sound emitted by cars - and the residents are constantly complaining about it. Even though they are living beside an airport - the city has the power to shut down all the auto racing there if enough people complain.

I'm sure this same problem will apply to the Langley speedway, should it reopen as well.

[dark0821]

^ This, I think godwin has a very good point

I want to point out that AutoSport Racing is defn costly, I go to mission maybe only once or twice a year, why?

track day - 150bucks plus or minus ($50 for auto-X YAY)
brakes - okay, maybe it will last 2 events
tires - dedicated R-comps are actually cheaper to run than using your street tires
fuel - I go thru like 2 - 3 tanks of gas @ like $60 a pop

In the end its about $300+ for one day of maybe 60min of driving. I dont think racing or hooning your vehicle has a small audience in Vancouver, its the cost, who has $300 to blow twice a month for 3 month a year?

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by MindBomber

The last count shows approximately 4500 horse owners in Langley and essentially all make use of Campbell Valley, so speaking strictly on numbers, there would need to be 1400 race car owners to make a 25% time sacrifice fair. I'd be willing to bet their are less than 100 cars that could run that track in Langley.

Just curious, since you're running the numbers... how many hundreds of miles of trails, roads and backroads, and hundreds if not thousands of acres of fields, are available to these same people to ride their horses? Now compare that to the paved stretches where the race enthusiasts can do their thing in safety.

I drive through south Surrey/Langley Aldergrove now and then, I see horses being ridden along the sides of even the main roads most times I'm through there. Nobody seems to have a problem with this. Do you think society would be equally forgiving of a couple guys ripping their GT-Rs along 8th Ave.?

I don't see where asking to use an EXISTING piece of oval asphalt, in an EXISTING facility, on a relatively small chunk of land, where those with a need for speed can get their jollies without endangering anyone else, is really so much to ask, compared to all the open, public spaces everyone else is free to use for whatever other non-motorized pursuits they may enjoy.

[MindBomber]

Originally Posted by Soundy

Just curious, since you're running the numbers... how many hundreds of miles of trails, roads and backroads, and hundreds if not thousands of acres of fields, are available to these same people to ride their horses? Now compare that to the paved stretches where the race enthusiasts can do their thing in safety.

I think you're approaching equestrian space availability poorly.

I would divide it into two categories: trail/road riding and competition venues.

Campbell Valley is one of two major equestrian trail heads, and quite a few short trails along dykes and the fraser river also exist, and of course rural road riding adds hundreds of kilometers.

For equestrians, trail riding, and especially road riding, I consider equivalent, for drivers, to the casual cruising.

I would then not consider equestrians to have an advantage or drivers in this regard.

Campbell Valley is the only major municipal equestrian competition venue, a minor one unsuitable for the majority of activities also exists. A number of private competition venues exist, but this is not primarily a discussion of private facilities so it seems those should be excluded.

The availability of one major municipal equestrian competition facility to serve thousands of potential users, thus, makes the lack of availability municipal motor sports facilities to serve a hundred or so potential users seem quite reasonable.

If motor sports had wide enough support private facilities would open, like they have for equestrian.

I drive through south Surrey/Langley Aldergrove now and then, I see horses being ridden along the sides of even the main roads most times I'm through there. Nobody seems to have a problem with this. Do you think society would be equally forgiving of a couple guys ripping their GT-Rs along 8th Ave.?

Ripping GT-Rs along 8th avenue is totally cool, as long as they obey the MVA.

Riding horses along the sides of roads is legal.

I see no bias favouring equestrians here.

I don't see where asking to use an EXISTING piece of oval asphalt, in an EXISTING facility, on a relatively small chunk of land, where those with a need for speed can get their jollies without endangering anyone else, is really so much to ask, compared to all the open, public spaces everyone else is free to use for whatever other non-motorized pursuits they may enjoy.

Have you ever been to Langley Speedway, Soundy?

I suspect not, because you would realize, it's an existing piece of asphalt, but not an existing racing facility. The asphalt has been derelict for four decades, it's not usable. The stands have been derelict for four decades as well, they're not usable. A road to access the oval no longer exists. A set of pits does not exist. A washroom, concession facility does not exist. A parking area large enough to accommodate the proposed crowds does not exist. A new facility essentially needs to be constructed.

And yes, it is too much to ask. Niche hobbies cannot be accommodated by municipal governments, that's up to private industry. I can cite countless examples of other niche hobbies that do not have spaces provided.

[MindBomber]

Today, the Metro Vancouver Environment and Parks Committee voted against conducting a feasibility study on restoring Langley Speedway.

[GabAlmighty]

Well isn't that just fantastic... Love BC but Vancouver is slowly losing it's appeal to me.

[Yodamaster]

hahgay.com

[dangonay]

Don't know about here, but back home where I grew up (on a farm), the people into equestrian were the worst fucking nimbyists ever, full of a sense of superiority and entitlement as far as land use goes. We were always fighting with them. So this doesn't surprise me one bit.

[ancient_510]

Originally Posted by GabAlmighty

Well isn't that just fantastic... Love BC but Vancouver is slowly losing it's appeal to me.

+1

If it weren't for my great job I'd be living up near Pemby in a second.