SkyTrain won't take bus transfers with new Compass Card system

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by Verdasco

was in an empty bus and a mother of 2 told her kids that the future tickets from skytrains can not transfer to buses, the kids almost cried... i almost cried (they were very poor)

Should have told the mother that she had the wrong information and was getting worked up over nothing.

It's the paper transfers from a bus that can't be used on the Skytrain, not the compass cards from a skytrain pass...

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by Soundy

And this is the problem with all the hysteria around this: not only are they getting worked up over an option that's more expensive anyway, they're getting worked up over WRONG information.

Reading this thread, I have NO idea how that is remotely possible.

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by Lomac

Should have told the mother that she had the wrong information and was getting worked up over nothing.

It's the paper transfers from a bus that can't be used on the Skytrain, not the compass cards from a skytrain pass...

To be fair, if the mom has a bus pass and was taking the kids out on a Sunday with the bonus ride-alongs, then she would be right. She won't be able to take them out for free once the Compass is in effect 'cause there's no free bonus rides for kids anymore.

While it is a winner for the most part, there are some things that we're losing from this upgrade.

[falcon]

Originally Posted by Graeme S

Among other reasons, because paper tickets are disposable and you then lose the data-based advantage that Translink is gunning for with this set of upgrades. It's not just about the transition to tap or paperless tickets, it's about the amount of information that translink can get when they look at where you start, where you go, what transfers you make, how long you stay at each transfer point and so on and so forth.

Why? So they can do better planning on how to get you from point A to point B faster and more efficiently. Which is what everyone is constantly harping at them to do all the time.

In London you need to scan to leave. That would give them the exact info they're wanting. Also, that way if someone pays for "X station to X station" then stays on longer to try to cheat the system, the gate won't open to let them out.

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by falcon

In London you need to scan to leave. That would give them the exact info they're wanting. Also, that way if someone pays for "X station to X station" then stays on longer to try to cheat the system, the gate won't open to let them out.

Yes, I'm aware, and this has been discussed repeatedly in other parts of the thread. The difference, however, is that current tickets are simply a magnetic version of the 'zone printed/time printed' transfers. They contain no unique or distinct identifiers for trip tracing. Even if they introduced a swipe-in/swipe-out lane for the existing transfers, it would give them no information beyond 'person started in Zone 2 <Burnaby> and ended in Zone 2 <West Van>'. What it I decided to take the 130 and then the 135 and then the 250? Or the 130 and then the 239? Or the 130, the 35, the seabus and then the 246?

The point of the compass is not just to track how many people are using the busses like they do now; the point is to trace individual trips that are made in order to find out where there are existing route efficiencies or inefficiencies. Current transfers don't do this, and since it would cost $25m to upgrade all the busses to compass dispensers, or $9m to make changes to the skytrain system to accommodate the existing paper tickets (which may or may not trace anything beyond 'person got into the skytrain from a bus')...my existing point stands.

[Oleophobic]

Originally Posted by UFO

Nothing to worry about if you register your card. Same idea as Starbucks' giftcards with balance protection IF you register

Yep but keep in mind if you lose your card and don't realize it and someone else uses up the balance before you report it you'll be out of luck.

Q: What happens if my card is lost or stolen?
A: If you register your Compass Card, you can take advantage of Balance Protection. Balance Protection ensures that any value stored on your card is protected. Once a card is reported lost or stolen, the balance will be "frozen" and transferred to a new card. Lost or stolen Compass Cards that aren't registered won't have Balance Protection, and can't be replaced.

Note: Only the balance on your card at the time the report is made can be protected, so make sure you report your card lost or stolen as soon as possible to prevent someone else from accessing the value on your card.

[gars]

I worked with this guy in London, who was paranoid that the Police are tracking his movement (granted, he was a shaddy guy who did shaddy dealings on the side with criminals), so he would never register his card. He left his wallet on the tube on day, and bitched about how he couldn't get back the £50 he had left on the card.

Personally, I hope that Translink will put in a maximum day limit - like a daypass worth is the maximum you can get charged in a day... London was nice like that - if you stayed within specific zones, you can keep on using your oyster all day and only get charged the maximum for those zones.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by T.T

Yep but keep in mind if you lose your card and don't realize it and someone else uses up the balance before you report it you'll be out of luck.

With the way these things work, there shouldn't really be a reason for the card to have to leave your wallet/purse. In most cases if you lose the card you've probably lost other pieces of ID and cards as well. They can only hold someone's hand for so long.

[Nlkko]

Treat it like cash.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Traum]

Don't think this one has been posted yet, although someone has already mentioned how the Compass card will affect the poor and the marginalized a lot more so than other members in society:

TransLink's Compass fare card could create big challenges for Vancouver's poor | Georgia Straight

[adambomb]

Originally Posted by Traum

Don't think this one has been posted yet, although someone has already mentioned how the Compass card will affect the poor and the marginalized a lot more so than other members in society:

Ministry of Social Development already has bus pass program for those who qualify. I doubt it will change with the compass card, if anything, it will make it easier to ensure those who require transit services are able to access those services. I think critics are using the "poor" as a scapegoat.


To be eligible for the BC Bus Pass Program, the applicant must be living in a transit service area where the annual pass is available and meet one of the following criteria:

•Receiving Federal Guaranteed Income Supplement (GIS), or the Federal Allowance, or the Allowance for the Survivor;
•18 – 64 years of age and receiving Persons with Disability (PWD) assistance from the Ministry of Social Development and Social Innovation;
•60 – 64 years of age and receiving Income Assistance from the Province of British Columbia;
•Over 65 years of age and would qualify for GIS but does not meet the Canadian 10 year residency requirement;
•18-64 years of age, living on a First Nations reserve and receiving disability assistance from the band office; or
•60 – 64 years of age, living on a First Nations reserve and receiving assistance from the band office.
Bus Pass Program | Programs and Services - Ministry of Social Development and Social Innovation, Province of British Columbia

Then translink comes along and says...

Derek Zabel, a spokesperson for TransLink, said that meetings with stakeholders are ongoing. He argued that the Compass card will come with benefits for low-income earners, explaining that it will provide a 14-percent discount compared to cash payments.

Zabel described the initial $6 charge as a deposit, and added that it will include a “safety net”, allowing an individual to dip into a negative balance for one transit ride. “It’s guaranteeing people one safe trip home,” he said.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Traum

Don't think this one has been posted yet, although someone has already mentioned how the Compass card will affect the poor and the marginalized a lot more so than other members in society:

TransLink's Compass fare card could create big challenges for Vancouver's poor | Georgia Straight

We all know that Translink is in a cash crunch. No new revenues and taxpayers are not willing to pay any more. It's far easier to make tough decisions, like cutting special savings to the poor, when rolling out a new initiative like Compass rather than cutting those savings to the poor without a large initiative. It's PR 101.

It's shitty that the poor will be affected, but you can't please everyone. It's not Translink's responsibility to care about the poor.
Posted via RS Mobile

[StylinRed]

So the Compass Card system is going to cost $23million dollars more than originally expected

Also Translink will be playing Cubic $12 million dollars a year to run the system

Fare evasion was estimated at costing translink $10million dollars a year

Compass Card upgrade costing extra $23 million: TransLink | CTV British Columbia News

[ae101]

ya the whole compass card thing is a joke & fail to me & i live in asia, it just doesnt really work in a country where most ppl here drive all the time

[Traum]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

So the Compass Card system is going to cost $23million dollars more than originally expected

Also Translink will be playing Cubic $12 million dollars a year to run the system

Fare evasion was estimated at costing translink $10million dollars a year

Compass Card upgrade costing extra $23 million: TransLink | CTV British Columbia News

The cost overruns doesn't surprise me one bit, but the ongoing negative savings just blows my mind. How do these Translink idiots negotiate on pricing? and how do they make decisions?

[melloman]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

So the Compass Card system is going to cost $23million dollars more than originally expected

Also Translink will be playing Cubic $12 million dollars a year to run the system

Fare evasion was estimated at costing translink $10million dollars a year

Compass Card upgrade costing extra $23 million: TransLink | CTV British Columbia News

[Gridlock]

Translink said they didn't want to do it.

Technology and change aren't always necessarily good things. This stuff gets expensive to buy, and expensive to maintain. Especially when its government procurement. I won't ever forget that in the procurement documents that the operators of the original skytrain weren't allowed to claim savings from already operating part of the system in their proposal.

Lost respect that day.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Gridlock

Translink said they didn't want to do it.

What is it that Translink didn't want to do? Didn't want to pay $12M/yr? Didn't want the Compass system? or what?

[Gridlock]

Fare gates. They never wanted fare gates.

I'm with them.

Shitloads of money in renovations, a new system to maintain all to try and capture a smallish percentage of fare evaders(which is probably more than their estimates), which means the 100k/year/head police force now has nothing to do but stand there and look pretty.

Wait for that story to come up.

[Traum]

Ideally, with the fare gates in place, the need for having the same number of transit police officers is no longer there. Mind you, I am not calling for the complete elimination of the transit police. Their numbers just need to go down -- probably go way down. That would offset the costs of the fare gates, and the overall operating costs would probably go down.

Of course, being union members, these guys are not going to get laid off. So we are stuck with expensive fare gates AND expensive transit police...

[Spoon]

Originally Posted by StylinRed

So the Compass Card system is going to cost $23million dollars more than originally expected

Also Translink will be playing Cubic $12 million dollars a year to run the system

Fare evasion was estimated at costing translink $10million dollars a year

Compass Card upgrade costing extra $23 million: TransLink | CTV British Columbia News

Guess the price of transit goes up next year.

But if the overall quality of our transportation system is improved (mainly cleanliness), I don't mind paying more. In it's current state though, our transit system is pretty embarrassing because of how filthy it is.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Spoon

Guess the price of transit goes up next year.

But if the overall quality of our transportation system is improved (mainly cleanliness), I don't mind paying more. In it's current state though, our transit system is pretty embarrassing because of how filthy it is.

More like your carbon tax will go up.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by Gridlock

Fare gates. They never wanted fare gates.

I'm with them.

Shitloads of money in renovations, a new system to maintain all to try and capture a smallish percentage of fare evaders(which is probably more than their estimates), which means the 100k/year/head police force now has nothing to do but stand there and look pretty.

Wait for that story to come up.

Compass goes well past fare gates though. For the first time they can mine the data generated by users tagging in and out, and use the data to adjust/improve service in areas that need it, theoretically anyways. And also to move towards a distance based fare system to replace the flawed zone system (but when the zones go, I'm sure there will be fanfare and hoopla about how awesome zones are and how 2% of people will be getting screwed with a distance based fare). That's where the real value in Compass lies

Currently, users with monthly passes just shows the driver when boarding. Translink has no idea whether somebody with a monthly pass uses their pass to just cover its cost, or 10 times its cost. As a business, how can you determine what a feasible and sustainable amount to charge for an unlimited use pass when you can't tell how often your users are using the service?

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by UFO

(but when the zones go, I'm sure there will be fanfare and hoopla about how awesome zones are and how 2% of people will be getting screwed with a distance based fare).

OMG...so true!

The marginalized poor! You know, the ones that need to travel from waterfront to surrey to collect cans and the zone system makes it more expensive.

[UFO]

There's no way they can win this one, the media simply will not allow it.