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11-07-2013, 12:42 PM
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#76 | | RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001
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RIP Farley.
__________________ Quote:
Originally Posted by skyxx  Sonick is a genius. I won't go into detail what's so great about his post. But it's damn good! | 2010 Toyota Rav4 Limited V6 - Wifey's Daily Driver
2009 BMW 128i - Daily Driver
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11-07-2013, 01:28 PM
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#77 | | RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Vancouver
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Girls keep posting this on FB and commenting "like omg, what an asshole that guy is", "is he serious?"
I don't comment, but if I were too ohhh man would I start a shit storm...
Seriously though, hes right, this shit ain't made for some chicks...
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11-07-2013, 02:11 PM
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#78 | | My homepage has been set to RS
Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Canada
Posts: 2,327
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Originally Posted by meme405 Girls keep posting this on FB and commenting "like omg, what an asshole that guy is", "is he serious?"
I don't comment, but if I were too ohhh man would I start a shit storm...
Seriously though, hes right, this shit ain't made for some chicks... | Haha I felt the same way...I was so tempted to comment on a few of the posts on say how this is why they will never support Lululemon.....
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11-07-2013, 05:34 PM
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#79 | | 14 dolla balla aint got nothing on me!
Join Date: May 2011 Location: 1966 Mustang
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One of the "see through" issues was women buying a size or two too small.
Try telling a plusser to go up a few sizes.
As for the mens line, it works for me at the gym, pilling and all.
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11-07-2013, 05:49 PM
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#80 | | Where's my RS Christmas Lobster?!
Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Richmond
Posts: 821
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Originally Posted by FerrariEnzo Guys pants isnt tight... you obviously never been inside the store to look at mens clothing-line..   | Pretty sure he doesnt know that they make men's pants, and thinks guys are wearing the tight girls yoga pants.
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11-07-2013, 07:42 PM
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#81 | | I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Shanghai
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Yes lulu is expensive but I don't think it's overpriced for what it is. I have their cotton shirts that's been through 3 years of washing and still look like new. Their metal vent tech shirts feel amazing on the skin and literally last forever looking new if you don't catch them on something sharp. How many company's shirts out there can last 3 years looking like the day you bought it? Not many.
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11-07-2013, 08:09 PM
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#82 | | Even when im right, revscene.net is still right!
Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: y
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Originally Posted by bmwx1 again my general perception and stereotype. Guys who wear underarmour stuff look like hippies. And I found the guys who wear lululemon are usually gay. I don't see guys wear lululemon very often. But out of all the times I saw, I think only one of them wasn't gay.
Nothing wrong with girls wearing lululemon, looks great on them. | urine idiot  | |
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11-07-2013, 10:14 PM
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#83 | | I answer every Emotion with an emoticon
Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: somewhere
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Originally Posted by SolidPenguin Pretty sure he doesnt know that they make men's pants, and thinks guys are wearing the tight girls yoga pants. | I think he thinks men's lululemon pants are the ones the cyclist use 
A lot of NBA players wear spandex under their shorts.. are they gay?
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11-07-2013, 10:59 PM
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#84 | | WOAH! i think Vtec just kicked in!
Join Date: May 2005 Location: vancouver
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This isn't from me but a friend wrote it on a blog and its a different perspective then we all seem to have.
"It seems to me to me like Business 101: if someone repeatedly makes requests to buy your product, then you can probably assume that if you make it available, they will buy it, and you will make money. If you choose not to make that product available to the people requesting it, then there's something else going on. You are choosing to exclude that market for a reason, usually one to do with what you may call "corporate strategy" or "brand positioning" but what some people, especially those affected, may call just plain prejudice.
Popular American retailer Abercrombie & Fitch came under fire last year when its CEO, Mike Jeffries explained to Salon magazine the company's decision to limit its sizing to Sizes 0 to 10 as part of a corporate-wide strategy to appeal to the "cool" and "attractive" kids, not just implying that if you didn't fit in a Size 10 or smaller, you weren't cool but actually saying their clothes were not for the "fat kids." Chip Wilson, founder of lululemon, noted in a recent interview with Bloomberg TV that "some women's bodies just don't work" with their clothing.
Ignorant comments such as those made by Jeffries or Wilson are not something new to me. I have been called fat my whole life - even when I wasn't fat. I can't remember how young I was when I was first called fat by other kids - I literally can't remember a time when that didn't happen. I have a picture of a gorgeous 6 year old Dani on my fridge who could never be called fat - and yet that's what was happening at school. And when you hear something often, you start to believe it, and live it. I was fat, so I ate. And the insult became the reality. As a teenager I wanted nothing more than to wear the same clothes as my girlfriends and despaired when, as a 17 year old Size 12, with boobs and hips and a butt, I couldn't fit into the same "baby tees" or low rise jeans. I cried many times in mall dressing rooms feeling fat and unattractive. I went on Weight Watchers for the first time when I was 13, and actually did quite well with the program, but I endured taunts from classmates throughout elementary and high school, regardless of how thin/fat I was at the time, because I had already been labelled "the fat girl." Kids who didn't have better comebacks in our juvenile disagreements often resorted to "Well - you're FAT" to end the discussion. And it usually did, with me in tears.
This prejudice did not go away as I got older. I matured, but society didn't. If I refuse to give money to a panhandler in my Gastown neighbourhood, they will shout after me that I'm fat. I've had drunk guys whose advances I have ignored shout about how fat I am as I walk away from them. I met a record industry insider in the early 2000s when I was younger and desperate for a career as a singer who told me that the reality was, I didn't look like Christina Aguilera or Britney Spears and that's what I'd need to look like to make it as a singer. I've been routinely overlooked for parts in theatre because of how I look - even in my early 20s I was being thrown into the "mother" or "old lady" or "funny girl" boat, because how do you cast a big girl, no matter how bright her smile, as the ingenue*? Regardless of whether I've been a size 8, 12, 16, 18 - and I've been them all - these issues still affect me in my adult life. The "fat" label, once affixed, is hardly ever removed. And sometimes we keep it there ourselves: I know even when I've been wearing a Size 2, and been sick and green from starving myself, I've looked in the mirror and still seen a fat person.
So, no, that companies don't want to make clothes for fat people isn't news to me, but perfectly in keeping with my experience as a big person. I don't feel the need to make immediate indignant retorts on Facebook when people like Jeffries or Wilson show their true colours. The message isn't new: Fat isn't cool. Curvy isn't cool. Thin is correct. It is beautiful. Thin is fit, and healthy, and there is no other possible definition of what "fit" or "healthy" can mean. And if companies like Abercrombie and Fitch and lululemon would prefer not to cater to myself or other women who do not fit their size charts, it is their prerogative and I don't have to shop there.
Still, I feel it keenly when a dear friend who I think is beautiful and amazing writes a brave letter to lululemon asking why she can't buy a shirt in their store to wear to her regular Pilates workouts, and receives a flip response about why she does not fit their image of a "target guest." I feel bad for my male friends who have subjected themselves to gruelling workouts and horrendous diets of shakes and pills to live up to some image of "maleness." I have lived this frustration. I've cried those tears, I've fought those battles. 17 year old me would be bitterly disappointed not to have the same clothes as all of my friends. 33 year old me sees it as an opportunity to scour the Interwebs for cool brands and designers who no one else has. It hurts me, but I also have tools at my disposal (mainly income) to help me cope.
So, some women's bodies, bigger women's bodies, "don't work" for Chip Wilson. This isn't news.
What is news to me, and saddening, is how people who I consider intelligent, sensitive and educated - people who know me, and know other bigger people - accept these messages and reinforce them, without a thought to how they affect people they claim to respect and care for. What is news to me is how people who have experienced weight issues themselves, once resolved, show little empathy for others. What is news to me is that the media onslaught of "thin is beautiful" has been internalized so much that smart, caring people reduce weight issues to two causes: gluttony, or laziness, and thus justify exclusions like those made by lululemon and A & F ("Well, if you want to wear these clothes, don't be so lazy. Don't be so fat"), when the reality is that size and weight are so much more complicated, difficult, and sensitive issues.
When the Abercrombie & Fitch story came out, I posted a link to the story on my Facebook and said, "Thanks Abercrombie & Fitch, thanks to companies like you I spent most of my teenage years crying in dressing rooms." I was half kidding, but also serious. A firestorm of comments followed, in which a friend who had lost a considerable amount of weight (and was, in my opinion as a person who has had every kind of eating disorder under the sun at some point or another, unhealthily fixated on her "new"body and "new" self) stated that I should suck it up - that if I wanted to wear A & F, I should just lose weight, or shut up about it. A man who had actually dated me, and so whom I feel reasonably confident in saying thought I was attractive, felt the need to wade in on the comment thread and explain why he preferred thin women. The majority of comments basically expressed that size was that simple: thin is good, fat is bad, and if you want to be thin, don't eat so damn much. Go for a run. And if you're fat, you deserve to be excluded and shouldn't complain. I was willing to wade into this debate, and hear my friends' positions, as appallingly insensitive as I thought they were being (two of those who commented de-friended me after our exchange of comments, incidentally - so perhaps they were more sensitive than I thought?), in the hopes that maybe I could educate them on what it's like to live in my shoes (a "regular" size 7, in case you're wondering. My feet aren't fat).
So today, I read lots of posts by people appalled by Chip Wilson's comments about women's thighs, in particular - and that women's thighs "rubbing together" may be the reason their pants' quality has declined in recent years. What was disappointing to me however were the social media comments that did NOT find his comments appalling and size-ist:
"No man can wear a Speedo either."
Why not?
"Of course he's right, some people shouldn't wear those pants."
Who are "some people"?
"I don't understand why people think that every company has to cater to the needs of every body shape around. If you're plus size you won't look good in it, don't buy it."
Great - but how come it's always the larger people who don't have a right to be "catered to"? And who's making an alternative? Oh, nobody? That's helpful.
"Exactly. Some people shouldn't wear these clothes. Period."
Sorry, who are these "some people" again? You mean bigger people?
"Plus-size people should stop complaining and get to the gym."
Thanks, I'll slot it in after my third trip of the day to McDonalds.
Well, I can't help myself. I feel the need to point out, for Chip, Mike and others, the following:
1. You don't have to be "plus size" (defined as size 16 and up) to not have a gap between your thighs. Here's a great article from Slate on that topic.
2. It's not plus size people's complaints that Chip is responding to, because lululemon does not make plus size clothes. Their largest size is a Size 12, and that is only available in limited styles. I wear tons of lululemon stuff, and there is also tons of lululemon stuff I can't wear. For instance, most lulu shirts and hoodies feature extremely long and thin arms that just don't fit my chubby, stumpy arms.
3. People who do not fit into lululemon or A & F are not necessarily lazy unhealthy people. My friend who wrote the letter to lululemon is not what I would even call plus size. She walks, bikes, does yoga and Pilates, but just cannot fit her gorgeous sexy boobs into one of their shirts.
4. Fat people like to exercise too. I do yoga every day. I dance, I run, I hike. I am not by any means exceptional in this. And fat people who like to exercise also like to have clothes to wear while they are doing said exercise. Sometimes fat people who exercise will, like some of my friends (and like me at some points in my life), turn into thin people who exercise. Sometimes they won't. In my book, if they're trying to be healthy, then that's OK, and they should be able to buy a pair of pants to try to be healthy in.
5. Fat people have jobs and have money to spend in retail therapy, the same as anyone else. Fat people like shopping when they can find stuff that fits them, and like to look good. We would be outraged if The Gap said it wanted to exclude, let's say, all people with acne from wearing their clothes. We wouldn't consider that socially acceptable. So why is it socially acceptable (or defensible, or explainable) to exclude people based on body type?
6. People who are not thin may be so for reasons out of their control and for which they do not "deserve" to be shamed. Hormones, emotional issues, health conditions, genetics - these are all things that affect weight and shape. Mike Jeffries and Chip Wilson are not in a position where they can know the story of every potential customer they alienate with their comments. However, you (my friends, my readers) are in a position to know, or to ask, why the people in your life may choose, or not choose, to be the size that they are. You are in the privileged position of being able to ask, listen, empathize and accept. The idea that if you're not thin you're doing something wrong, is well…wrong. And if you accept that idea, or the real-life consequences of that idea (like the exclusionary policies of companies like lululemon and A & F), then you are doing your friends of all sizes a disservice.
So, no, it's not the comments of people like Mike Jeffries and Chip Wilson that bother me. I'm bothered by the friends I have who aren't bothered by them. I'm bothered by the people who buy into one idea of beauty. I'm bothered about how size-ist attitudes demonstrated by retailers get reflected in the media, and then get reflected in popular culture, so that people find it perfectly OK to judge or place value on someone because of size (or lack thereof). I'm bothered that looks can limit anyone, in their career, in love, in life. And I'm mostly bothered that my damn yoga pants are see-through.
And to all the retailers out there - I like to shop, I have money to spend, and given that I do yoga every day, I need a lot of yoga pants. Make me a pair that fit, that make me feel good, and that aren't see-through or full of holes within a month (like my last few pairs of lulus) and you'll have my money. Simple as that.
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11-08-2013, 05:25 PM
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#85 | | My homepage has been set to RS
Join Date: May 2011 Location: Vancouver
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11-08-2013, 05:37 PM
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#86 | | I am a troll. Disregard what I say.
Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: van
Posts: 48
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if a O (without the "H" infront) doesnt fit into the pants then yous just a fat O! BUY BAGGY SWEAT O!
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11-08-2013, 05:52 PM
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#87 | | Lomac owned my ass at least once
Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Vancouver
Posts: 6,259
Thanked 3,463 Times in 820 Posts
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Originally Posted by rslater This isn't from me but a friend wrote it on a blog and its a different perspective then we all seem to have.
"It seems to me to me like Business 101: if someone repeatedly makes requests to buy your product, then you can probably assume that if you make it available, they will buy it, and you will make money. If you choose not to make that product available to the people requesting it, then there's something else going on. You are choosing to exclude that market for a reason, usually one to do with what you may call "corporate strategy" or "brand positioning" but what some people, especially those affected, may call just plain prejudice... | Honestly, I'm sick and tired of people feeling "bullied" These private companies can choose to conduct business anyway they see fit. You don't like their business ethics, well don't shop there then. ugh.
I want to drive a Ferrari but why aren't they making one that's affordable? Are they being elitist? No. I'm just not rich enough to buy one, am I going to cry about it and demand income parity? NO.
These are the same self entitled people that watch "Biggest Loser" and feel like the people on the show are winners, when in fact, they just reached the average side of the Bell curve.
That show rewards mediocrity.
Sorry, not a PC response, but I think society's becoming too bubble wrapped.
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11-08-2013, 06:30 PM
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#88 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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I'm PISSED that NONE of the clothes at Addition-Elle fit me...and I'm furious that Forever 21 doesn't cater to men...what happened to the rights I've been guaranteed in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms!? My family didn't immigrate to this country just so I could be discriminated against by the clothing industry in Canada.
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11-08-2013, 06:35 PM
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#89 | | RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001
Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Burnaby
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I'm pissed that I'm being discriminated by the tampon industry! Men have equal rights too and should be able to use them and marketed to!
Am I doing it right? | |
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11-08-2013, 06:52 PM
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#90 | | Lomac owned my ass at least once
Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Vancouver
Posts: 6,259
Thanked 3,463 Times in 820 Posts
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Originally Posted by parm104 I'm PISSED that NONE of the clothes at Addition-Elle fit me...and I'm furious that Forever 21 doesn't cater to men...what happened to the rights I've been guaranteed in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms!? My family didn't immigrate to this country just so I could be discriminated against by the clothing industry in Canada. | I do believe Forever21 online sells to men...  | |
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11-08-2013, 07:16 PM
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#91 | | I *Fwap* *Fwap* *Fwap* to RS
Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: vancouver
Posts: 1,534
Thanked 1,273 Times in 275 Posts
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Originally Posted by rslater This isn't from me but a friend wrote it on a blog and its a different perspective then we all seem to have.
"It seems to me to me like Business 101: if someone repeatedly makes requests to buy your product, then you can probably assume that if you make it available, they will buy it, and you will make money. If you choose not to make that product available to the people requesting it, then there's something else going on. You are choosing to exclude that market for a reason, usually one to do with what you may call "corporate strategy" or "brand positioning" but what some people, especially those affected, may call just plain prejudice.
Popular American retailer Abercrombie & Fitch came under fire last year when its CEO, Mike Jeffries explained to Salon magazine the company's decision to limit its sizing to Sizes 0 to 10 as part of a corporate-wide strategy to appeal to the "cool" and "attractive" kids, not just implying that if you didn't fit in a Size 10 or smaller, you weren't cool but actually saying their clothes were not for the "fat kids." Chip Wilson, founder of lululemon, noted in a recent interview with Bloomberg TV that "some women's bodies just don't work" with their clothing. | I'm aware that the perception of beauty is dynamic through history, and it's still changing today. Whether it be for better or for worse is debatable, but thats just the cold reality of it.
The article is riddled with her subjective perception of what she felt was fat or thin, or "what she thinks" plus sized is. (actually she straight up says 16+ is plus sized, but penningtons plus sized clothing start their sizes at 14)
I'm not justifying the verbal abuse as a child, but if 9/10 people are saying it, you may want to take a moment to self reflect.
She seems to have a very skewed perception of what thin is compared to the majority of other people, and she reitterates that through out her blog. I just can't help but notice her agenda of, "Hey lets reset the bar or what is considered ideal beauty because it's really unrealistic right now". She just seems bitter. On top of that, I can't help but think what she may consider thin, I may still consider a bit chubby.
"Hey it's not me, it must be the rest of the world". 
__________________
2004 E46 M3
2001 WRX STi (sold)
2003 Supercharged 350z (sold)
1991 R32 GTR (sold)
2000 Civic SiR (sold)
1990 Civic Si-T (sold)
1986 MK1 Mr2 (sold)
2005 GSX-R 750 (sold)
2003 CBR 600RR (sold)
2007 Ducati 1098 track (sold)
2009 Kawasaki ZX6R (track build)
Last edited by fT-z33wor; 11-09-2013 at 11:43 AM.
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11-08-2013, 07:19 PM
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#92 | | RS Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: GTA
Posts: 29,006
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Genetics? WTF is that? 
__________________ Quote:
Originally Posted by Badhobz Yeah. Typical Mainlander Barbie doll.
Her car even smelled nice. Like a mixture of luxury perfume and a hint of….. vag ? Fish sauce ? Something a bit dank | | |
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11-08-2013, 07:27 PM
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#93 | | I *Fwap* *Fwap* *Fwap* to RS
Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: vancouver
Posts: 1,534
Thanked 1,273 Times in 275 Posts
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Originally Posted by pbrdukes Genetics? WTF is that? | Don't act like you haven't tackled a few in your day. 
__________________
2004 E46 M3
2001 WRX STi (sold)
2003 Supercharged 350z (sold)
1991 R32 GTR (sold)
2000 Civic SiR (sold)
1990 Civic Si-T (sold)
1986 MK1 Mr2 (sold)
2005 GSX-R 750 (sold)
2003 CBR 600RR (sold)
2007 Ducati 1098 track (sold)
2009 Kawasaki ZX6R (track build) | |
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11-08-2013, 07:28 PM
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#94 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Surrey
Posts: 2,808
Thanked 2,621 Times in 684 Posts
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Originally Posted by pbrdukes Genetics? WTF is that? | I think you mean jean-tics, it's a type of denim that stretches without exposing any sheerness in the crotch area.
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Translation for women: this new product will allow you to wear an XS when you're normally a XL. And if it doesn't, cry foul play!
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11-09-2013, 01:11 AM
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#95 | | Even when im right, revscene.net is still right!
Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: y
Posts: 1,331
Thanked 4,841 Times in 632 Posts
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Originally Posted by rslater This isn't from me but a friend wrote it on a blog and its a different perspective then we all seem to have.
"It seems to me to me like Business 101: if someone repeatedly makes requests to buy your product, then you can probably assume that if you make it available, they will buy it, and you will make money. If you choose not to make that product available to the people requesting it, then there's something else going on. You are choosing to exclude that market for a reason, usually one to do with what you may call "corporate strategy" or "brand positioning" but what some people, especially those affected, may call just plain prejudice.
Popular American retailer Abercrombie & Fitch came under fire last year when its CEO, Mike Jeffries explained to Salon magazine the company's decision to limit its sizing to Sizes 0 to 10 as part of a corporate-wide strategy to appeal to the "cool" and "attractive" kids, not just implying that if you didn't fit in a Size 10 or smaller, you weren't cool but actually saying their clothes were not for the "fat kids." Chip Wilson, founder of lululemon, noted in a recent interview with Bloomberg TV that "some women's bodies just don't work" with their clothing.
Ignorant comments such as those made by Jeffries or Wilson are not something new to me. I have been called fat my whole life - even when I wasn't fat. I can't remember how young I was when I was first called fat by other kids - I literally can't remember a time when that didn't happen. I have a picture of a gorgeous 6 year old Dani on my fridge who could never be called fat - and yet that's what was happening at school. And when you hear something often, you start to believe it, and live it. I was fat, so I ate. And the insult became the reality. As a teenager I wanted nothing more than to wear the same clothes as my girlfriends and despaired when, as a 17 year old Size 12, with boobs and hips and a butt, I couldn't fit into the same "baby tees" or low rise jeans. I cried many times in mall dressing rooms feeling fat and unattractive. I went on Weight Watchers for the first time when I was 13, and actually did quite well with the program, but I endured taunts from classmates throughout elementary and high school, regardless of how thin/fat I was at the time, because I had already been labelled "the fat girl." Kids who didn't have better comebacks in our juvenile disagreements often resorted to "Well - you're FAT" to end the discussion. And it usually did, with me in tears.
This prejudice did not go away as I got older. I matured, but society didn't. If I refuse to give money to a panhandler in my Gastown neighbourhood, they will shout after me that I'm fat. I've had drunk guys whose advances I have ignored shout about how fat I am as I walk away from them. I met a record industry insider in the early 2000s when I was younger and desperate for a career as a singer who told me that the reality was, I didn't look like Christina Aguilera or Britney Spears and that's what I'd need to look like to make it as a singer. I've been routinely overlooked for parts in theatre because of how I look - even in my early 20s I was being thrown into the "mother" or "old lady" or "funny girl" boat, because how do you cast a big girl, no matter how bright her smile, as the ingenue*? Regardless of whether I've been a size 8, 12, 16, 18 - and I've been them all - these issues still affect me in my adult life. The "fat" label, once affixed, is hardly ever removed. And sometimes we keep it there ourselves: I know even when I've been wearing a Size 2, and been sick and green from starving myself, I've looked in the mirror and still seen a fat person.
So, no, that companies don't want to make clothes for fat people isn't news to me, but perfectly in keeping with my experience as a big person. I don't feel the need to make immediate indignant retorts on Facebook when people like Jeffries or Wilson show their true colours. The message isn't new: Fat isn't cool. Curvy isn't cool. Thin is correct. It is beautiful. Thin is fit, and healthy, and there is no other possible definition of what "fit" or "healthy" can mean. And if companies like Abercrombie and Fitch and lululemon would prefer not to cater to myself or other women who do not fit their size charts, it is their prerogative and I don't have to shop there.
Still, I feel it keenly when a dear friend who I think is beautiful and amazing writes a brave letter to lululemon asking why she can't buy a shirt in their store to wear to her regular Pilates workouts, and receives a flip response about why she does not fit their image of a "target guest." I feel bad for my male friends who have subjected themselves to gruelling workouts and horrendous diets of shakes and pills to live up to some image of "maleness." I have lived this frustration. I've cried those tears, I've fought those battles. 17 year old me would be bitterly disappointed not to have the same clothes as all of my friends. 33 year old me sees it as an opportunity to scour the Interwebs for cool brands and designers who no one else has. It hurts me, but I also have tools at my disposal (mainly income) to help me cope.
So, some women's bodies, bigger women's bodies, "don't work" for Chip Wilson. This isn't news.
What is news to me, and saddening, is how people who I consider intelligent, sensitive and educated - people who know me, and know other bigger people - accept these messages and reinforce them, without a thought to how they affect people they claim to respect and care for. What is news to me is how people who have experienced weight issues themselves, once resolved, show little empathy for others. What is news to me is that the media onslaught of "thin is beautiful" has been internalized so much that smart, caring people reduce weight issues to two causes: gluttony, or laziness, and thus justify exclusions like those made by lululemon and A & F ("Well, if you want to wear these clothes, don't be so lazy. Don't be so fat"), when the reality is that size and weight are so much more complicated, difficult, and sensitive issues.
When the Abercrombie & Fitch story came out, I posted a link to the story on my Facebook and said, "Thanks Abercrombie & Fitch, thanks to companies like you I spent most of my teenage years crying in dressing rooms." I was half kidding, but also serious. A firestorm of comments followed, in which a friend who had lost a considerable amount of weight (and was, in my opinion as a person who has had every kind of eating disorder under the sun at some point or another, unhealthily fixated on her "new"body and "new" self) stated that I should suck it up - that if I wanted to wear A & F, I should just lose weight, or shut up about it. A man who had actually dated me, and so whom I feel reasonably confident in saying thought I was attractive, felt the need to wade in on the comment thread and explain why he preferred thin women. The majority of comments basically expressed that size was that simple: thin is good, fat is bad, and if you want to be thin, don't eat so damn much. Go for a run. And if you're fat, you deserve to be excluded and shouldn't complain. I was willing to wade into this debate, and hear my friends' positions, as appallingly insensitive as I thought they were being (two of those who commented de-friended me after our exchange of comments, incidentally - so perhaps they were more sensitive than I thought?), in the hopes that maybe I could educate them on what it's like to live in my shoes (a "regular" size 7, in case you're wondering. My feet aren't fat).
So today, I read lots of posts by people appalled by Chip Wilson's comments about women's thighs, in particular - and that women's thighs "rubbing together" may be the reason their pants' quality has declined in recent years. What was disappointing to me however were the social media comments that did NOT find his comments appalling and size-ist:
"No man can wear a Speedo either."
Why not?
"Of course he's right, some people shouldn't wear those pants."
Who are "some people"?
"I don't understand why people think that every company has to cater to the needs of every body shape around. If you're plus size you won't look good in it, don't buy it."
Great - but how come it's always the larger people who don't have a right to be "catered to"? And who's making an alternative? Oh, nobody? That's helpful.
"Exactly. Some people shouldn't wear these clothes. Period."
Sorry, who are these "some people" again? You mean bigger people?
"Plus-size people should stop complaining and get to the gym."
Thanks, I'll slot it in after my third trip of the day to McDonalds.
Well, I can't help myself. I feel the need to point out, for Chip, Mike and others, the following:
1. You don't have to be "plus size" (defined as size 16 and up) to not have a gap between your thighs. Here's a great article from Slate on that topic.
2. It's not plus size people's complaints that Chip is responding to, because lululemon does not make plus size clothes. Their largest size is a Size 12, and that is only available in limited styles. I wear tons of lululemon stuff, and there is also tons of lululemon stuff I can't wear. For instance, most lulu shirts and hoodies feature extremely long and thin arms that just don't fit my chubby, stumpy arms.
3. People who do not fit into lululemon or A & F are not necessarily lazy unhealthy people. My friend who wrote the letter to lululemon is not what I would even call plus size. She walks, bikes, does yoga and Pilates, but just cannot fit her gorgeous sexy boobs into one of their shirts.
4. Fat people like to exercise too. I do yoga every day. I dance, I run, I hike. I am not by any means exceptional in this. And fat people who like to exercise also like to have clothes to wear while they are doing said exercise. Sometimes fat people who exercise will, like some of my friends (and like me at some points in my life), turn into thin people who exercise. Sometimes they won't. In my book, if they're trying to be healthy, then that's OK, and they should be able to buy a pair of pants to try to be healthy in.
5. Fat people have jobs and have money to spend in retail therapy, the same as anyone else. Fat people like shopping when they can find stuff that fits them, and like to look good. We would be outraged if The Gap said it wanted to exclude, let's say, all people with acne from wearing their clothes. We wouldn't consider that socially acceptable. So why is it socially acceptable (or defensible, or explainable) to exclude people based on body type?
6. People who are not thin may be so for reasons out of their control and for which they do not "deserve" to be shamed. Hormones, emotional issues, health conditions, genetics - these are all things that affect weight and shape. Mike Jeffries and Chip Wilson are not in a position where they can know the story of every potential customer they alienate with their comments. However, you (my friends, my readers) are in a position to know, or to ask, why the people in your life may choose, or not choose, to be the size that they are. You are in the privileged position of being able to ask, listen, empathize and accept. The idea that if you're not thin you're doing something wrong, is well…wrong. And if you accept that idea, or the real-life consequences of that idea (like the exclusionary policies of companies like lululemon and A & F), then you are doing your friends of all sizes a disservice.
So, no, it's not the comments of people like Mike Jeffries and Chip Wilson that bother me. I'm bothered by the friends I have who aren't bothered by them. I'm bothered by the people who buy into one idea of beauty. I'm bothered about how size-ist attitudes demonstrated by retailers get reflected in the media, and then get reflected in popular culture, so that people find it perfectly OK to judge or place value on someone because of size (or lack thereof). I'm bothered that looks can limit anyone, in their career, in love, in life. And I'm mostly bothered that my damn yoga pants are see-through.
And to all the retailers out there - I like to shop, I have money to spend, and given that I do yoga every day, I need a lot of yoga pants. Make me a pair that fit, that make me feel good, and that aren't see-through or full of holes within a month (like my last few pairs of lulus) and you'll have my money. Simple as that. | you really expect us to read all that? 
Last edited by H.Specter; 11-09-2013 at 01:22 AM.
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11-09-2013, 11:05 AM
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#96 | | WOAH! i think Vtec just kicked in!
Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: BC
Posts: 1,609
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11-09-2013, 11:50 AM
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#97 | | What hasn't Killed me, has made me more tolerant of RS!
Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Vancouver
Posts: 181
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11-09-2013, 12:33 PM
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#98 | | I *heart* Revscene.net very Muchie
Join Date: May 2004 Location: Edmonton
Posts: 3,529
Thanked 665 Times in 273 Posts
| Quote:
Originally Posted by parm104 I'm PISSED that NONE of the clothes at Addition-Elle fit me...and I'm furious that Forever 21 doesn't cater to men...what happened to the rights I've been guaranteed in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms!? My family didn't immigrate to this country just so I could be discriminated against by the clothing industry in Canada. | Quote:
Originally Posted by rsx I do believe Forever21 online sells to men... | Forever 21 has men's clothing at some stores. It's shitty, but they have it.
Sometimes I go into stores and try on clothes and the shit doesn't fit. I've got an athletic build and broad shoulders so some some brands just don't match my body type. The ones that do, look good on me. The ones that don't, fuck it. Move on.
Nothing at Top Shop seems to fit me.  I like some of their stuff, but it just doesn't fit.
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"A chicken crossing the street is poultry in motion"
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11-09-2013, 12:47 PM
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#99 | | RS Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: vancouver
Posts: 8,778
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| Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_BIGGS Forever 21 has men's clothing at some stores. It's shitty, but they have it.
Sometimes I go into stores and try on clothes and the shit doesn't fit. I've got an athletic build and broad shoulders so some some brands just don't match my body type. The ones that do, look good on me. The ones that don't, fuck it. Move on.
Nothing at Top Shop seems to fit me. I like some of their stuff, but it just doesn't fit. | I am not a very big guy and I will never be able to fit into slim fit jeans, even though my waist is a 30. My shoulders are broad and my neck size is only a 15. pretty much anything dressy, I will need custom or altered.
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11-09-2013, 01:12 PM
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#100 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: n zone
Posts: 2,660
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Lol at considering yoga exercise
Why are fat people so angry that most men will never find their flabby asses attractive. Its not the media, its not society lol
Fat people are delusional as fuck too. If they could swap their bodies with a models without any work involved they would in a heartbeat no matter how "proud" they were of their bodies
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