Chilliwack pastor tells congregation vaccines interfere with God’s care

[observer]

The pastor for the community at the centre of the Fraser Valley measles outbreak says he sees vaccines as an interference with God’s providential care.

Rev. Adriaan Geuze says his 1,200-strong Reformed Congregation of North America in Chilliwack mostly shares that view, which is why vaccination rates in the community are “very low.”

“We leave it in (God’s) hands. If it is in his will that somehow we get a contagious disease, like in this case the measles, there are other ways, of course, to avoid this. If (we get sick), he can also heal us from it,” he said in an interview Friday.

Health officials last weekend confirmed two cases of measles and identified up to 100 suspected cases at a religious school in Chilliwack where vaccination rates are low. On Thursday, the Fraser Health Authority advised that the measles had spread into the general populations of Chilliwack and Agassiz and said it would open special vaccination clinics in those communities over the weekend.

To date, one nine-year-old child has been hospitalized as a result of the outbreak.

Measles is a potentially fatal viral infection characterized by a rash, high fever, runny nose, coughing and tiny spots inside the mouth.

A vaccination rate of 95 per cent is necessary in order for community immunity to work, said Fraser Health spokeswoman Tasleem Juma, adding that in the East Fraser region, vaccination rates are about 60 to 70 per cent.

Geuze counters that there is no need to make a healthy “God-given” body “a little bit sick” through vaccination.

He does not oppose other means of boosting immunity, such as rest, healthy living and eating well. Nor does the church oppose medical treatment when a person is already sick, he added.

Asked if he actively advises his congregants not to vaccinate their children, Geuze responded: “Of course I openly express my own point of view according to the Bible, absolutely. But it’s not that we force them. It’s through their own conscience that they have to act,” he said. “They expect that from me, that in a clear way I lay it all before them.”

Opinions on whether or not to vaccinate, however, are divided within the Fraser Valley’s Christian community.

Rev. Abel Pol of Chilliwack’s Canadian Reformed Church said that while he has never surveyed the church’s 400-plus membership on the issue, he suspects that most if not all the congregation is in favour of vaccinations.

“My 15-month-old son has been vaccinated, and I certainly hope everyone else would vaccinate their children as well,” he said in an emailed statement.

Pol said those who oppose vaccinations on religious grounds commonly quote the same passage of the Bible, Matthew 9:12, part of which reads:

“And as Jesus reclined at table in the house, behold, many tax collectors and sinners came and were reclining with Jesus and his disciples. And when the Pharisees saw this, they said to his disciples, ‘Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?’ But when he heard it, he said, ‘Those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick do. Go and learn what this means: I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.”

Jesus was not making a statement regarding vaccinations, but stating a general principle regarding the behaviour of people in order to illustrate a theological point, Pol said.

“Such misreading also takes place when other passages are invoked in a similar vein. Someone begins with their personal opinion and then attempts to back it up with Scripture, as opposed to letting the plain meaning of Scripture speak for itself.”

But most people, like Geuze, who oppose vaccination on religious grounds do so because they see it as an attempt at evading the providence of God, Pol said. It’s a false dichotomy to compare to what extent medical knowledge and technology should be used to combat disease and to what extent people should depend on the providence of God, he argued.

“It implies that when we avoid exercising control over particular situations (such as the health of our children) we are submitting to the providence of God, as if the two are mutually exclusive,” he said.

“This is a life in which we are called to exercise our moral responsibility while recognizing our ultimate dependence on him as our creator God.”

Taken to its logical conclusion, that argument also implies refusing all medical treatment and not taking steps to prevent disasters from happening, such as putting a fence around a swimming pool to prevent children from falling in, Pol said.

“Why stop at refusing vaccinations? To be consistent, you would have to refuse all medical help. You would never take steps to prevent any disaster from happening,” Pol said. “It is arbitrary to refuse one preventive measure on the grounds that it prevents Christians from depending on God’s providence, while accepting the other.”

Measles is the most infectious of all diseases and transmitted through airborne spread, said Monika Naus, a medical director at the BC Centre for Disease Control. It is easily preventable through vaccination.

Children under five are most at risk of serious disease from measles and should obtain the vaccine from a family doctor or public health clinic, Fraser Health advised in a news release. Older children and adults should get the vaccine through a family doctor or pharmacy.

Source:
Vancouver Sun

[pinn3r]

[bballguy]

[rsx]

Religious people are a cancer to progress.

We're thousands years as modern man, and people still believe in gods? How primitive is that? If they die because they don't believe in science, PLEASE DIE, we don't need to perpetuate ignorance.

I absolutely...ABSOLUTELY loathe religious persons. It's a cop out. It's a denial on logic and reason. It's a denial of the fragility of life and a slap in the face of humanity.

[xeryusx]

Great, another religious fanatic freak.
Posted via RS Mobile

[greendb7]

fucking idiots.

[CharlesInCharge]

Maybe the pastor knows more then he's letting on.

What they won't admit about measles outbreaks: Most children who catch measles were already vaccinated


Vaccine fraud exposed: Measles and mumps making a huge comeback because vaccines are designed to fail, say Merck virologists

Hidden government papers expose lies about measles vaccines for infants

[ProBoostin]

These people are just plain out fucking dumb.

The problem is when people (Christians in this case) take the Bible for its literal meaning when it was meant for each individual to interpret it to their own understanding. The Bible is not written by one man and whoever is reading it must realize that there are contradictions throughout the entire thing which makes it hard to read and follow. Pick the things out that you know are true such as proper morals and ethics that follow what you believe are right and disregard the bullshit such as slavery and idol worship, if you think they're improper, because most people know what is true and false, it's common sense. Some people are just plain out arrogant and blind and it reflects in this article.

The quote has shit all to do with vaccinations. Clearly why would go to the doctor if you are healthy, there's no need to (unless for a check up-common sense right?). Obviously today, way too many poeple lack this amazingly simple thing called common sense. Only Jehovahs don't believe in blood transfusions and most are probably against vaccines still.

Originally Posted by rsx

Religious people are a cancer to progress...

Not really true. The greatest minds of the scientific revolution which most of todays fundamantals of science were discovered were all of Christian faith, such as Newton, Kepler, Galileo, Brahae, Copernicus, Descarte, Bacon, and Voltaire. Hell, even Einstein was religious so I don't think religion is the cancer to progress.

[observer]

Michael Specter: The danger of science denial | Talk Video | TED

[320icar]

Fucking faith healers deserve jail time
Posted via RS Mobile

[maksimizer]

This is how I feel about this thread.















Bible thumpers.................

[observer]

Originally Posted by ProBoostin

The problem is when people (Christians in this case) take the Bible for its literal meaning when it was meant for each individual to interpret it to their own understanding....

Not really true. The greatest minds of the scientific revolution which most of todays fundamantals of science were discovered were all of Christian faith, such as Newton, Kepler, Galileo, Brahae, Copernicus, Descarte, Bacon, and Voltaire. Hell, even Einstein was religious so I don't think religion is the cancer to progress.

Easy for us to say now.

The Bible was supposed to be taken literally for hundreds of years until proven wrong both factually and morally.

Galileo was locked up suggesting the earth goes around the sun. How many witches were burnt in different religions, the terror of irrational dogma cannot be trivialized.

Back in the day, everyone needed the religious front or face society's imminent condemnation. Some argue that it was the reason why Darwin delayed the publication of the Origin of Species. It is anyone's guess how far the brilliants minds could have taken us without being held back by the powerful church.

Religion had been part of all civilizations' history, and thus we should learn and understand our past; however, in this day and age, we are better off confining its influence strictly as part of social studies.

When religion (or any other superstition) promotes blind faith and dogmatism rejecting reason and logic, it is cancer to human progress in my humble opinion.

[bballguy]

Originally Posted by observer

Easy for us to say now.

The Bible was supposed to be taken literally for hundreds of years until proven wrong both factually and morally.

Galileo was locked up suggesting the earth goes around the sun. How many witches were burnt in different religions, the terror of irrational dogma cannot be trivialized.

Back in the day, everyone needed the religious front or face society's imminent condemnation. Some argue that it was the reason why Darwin delayed the publication of the Origin of Species. It is anyone's guess how far the brilliants minds could have taken us without being held back by the powerful church.

Religion had been part of all civilizations' history, and thus we should learn and understand our past; however, in this day and age, we are better off confining its influence strictly as part of social studies.

When religion (or any other superstition) promotes blind faith and dogmatism rejecting reason and logic, it is cancer to human progress in my humble opinion.

Preach

[multicartual]

Originally Posted by rsx

We're thousands years as modern man, and people still believe in gods?

I believe in God and I love Jesus, but holy FUCK you can't cure stupid!!!


There are a lot of fucking morons out there who also believe in God, and it makes everyone else who does look like morons.

[Manic!]

Texas Megachurch Changes Vaccination Stance After Outbreak

and this: Reality show snake-handling pastor dies from snakebite | CTV News

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by rsx

I absolutely...ABSOLUTELY loathe religious persons. It's a cop out. It's a denial on logic and reason. It's a denial of the fragility of life and a slap in the face of humanity.

it's ok God still loves you

[Ronin]

That's absurd. Christians should be mad that people like this make them look like morons.

Even from a religious standpoint, does that mean the pastor doesn't believe vaccines are also created by God?

[multicartual]

Originally Posted by Ronin

That's absurd. Christians should be mad that people like this make them look like morons.

Most people I know who are Christian and those who believe in God don't talk about it out of fear of embarrassment and social rejection.


I feel less shy about telling people I make a ton of money reselling Facial Abuse videos than about my love for Jesus and my faith in God

[Ronin]

Maybe they don't talk about it because they don't feel the need to push their religion on anyone else.

[OrangeJuice]

Religion is supposed to be a private affair, between you and whatever deity you worship-God, YHWH, Allah, FSM, Amterasu, etc.

You have the right to that.

When your religious beliefs, or actions done in the name of religious beliefs begin infringing on other people's safety or wellbeing, your rights end and you deserve to get called out on your bullshit.

The very fact that messages like this are necessary in the modern age disgusts and saddens me:



To any parents reading this: GET YOUR CHILDREN VACCINATED. It won't turn them autistic, and it won't send them to hell. It promotes herd immunity, which gives me the peace of mind that when I have children, they won't come home with measles or smallpox because some hack actor's ex-wife convinced other parents to not give their kids shots.

[Jmac]

If there is some divine deity controlling everything, don't you think that modern medicine was in that deity's plans considering we have them?

[Noir]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Maybe they don't talk about it because they don't feel the need to push their religion on anyone else.

Hahahahahahahhaa!!! good one!

[rsx]

Originally Posted by GLOW

it's ok God still loves you

If I die and there turns out to be "GOD" my first words would be, "You're a fucking cunt"

[rsx]

Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge

Maybe the pastor knows more then he's letting on.

[url=http://www.naturalnews.com/033399_vaccines_measles.html#ixzz2w4Qhneqj]What they won't admit about measles outbreaks: Most children who catch measles were already vaccinated[/url

Vaccine fraud exposed: Measles and mumps making a huge comeback because vaccines are designed to fail, say Merck virologists

Hidden government papers expose lies about measles vaccines for infants

If or when you have kids, please don't vaccinate them. Stand by your principle. You're going to be by their bedside as they fade and you're going to whisper, "it's not my fault, it's chemtrails."

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by Noir

Hahahahahahahhaa!!! good one!

I know, right?

If everyone would shut the fuck up about what they believed and kept that shit to themselves, the world would just be a better place.