Anti-vaccine people

[CharlesInCharge]

Were you born yesterday to know that all the food products advertised on television promote disease and cancers?
... of course this is what industry wants.

Originally Posted by kb

^
In addition to your comment about "someone making a claim is never instantly accepted", even the paper you referenced that started all of this did not interpret causation.

Quoting from the paper itself: "We did not prove an association between measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine and the syndrome described. Virological studies are underway that may help to resolve this issue."

It is not rare for studies to publish findings that are later proven to be inconsistent. This paper is an example of one of those cases, the media broscientists just simply love to make claims when they do not understand the scientific process.

Nice of you to put in your two cents... I guess you've seen the study that shows mercury to have no correlation to autism? I hope you're not a hit and run poster.

Originally Posted by dhillon09

Charles there is one study done in 1998 that linked autism to vaccination and it was debunked several times over by several government operated bodies, and private research labs. There simply is no correlation between getting a vaccine and autism.

The link has arose due to bro-science (you know, the type of science you practice). The time that autism is diagnosed is roughly the same time that the first vaccinations are administered to kids. Parents (and people like you seeking a link) associate autism with vaccination since they both happened at the same time, but there is no factual or tangible evidence to prove that -- actually, all the evidence proves otherwise.

Are you so gullible to think this one debunked study make vaccines safe? How do you know the "corporations" didnt setup it up to fail so that they can manipulate indoctrinated citizens like yourself?

CDC Chief Admits that Vaccines Trigger Autism

CDC Chief Admits that Vaccines Trigger Autism - YouTube

Originally Posted by dhillon09

Do you even know the molecular basis for autism? Unless you're suggesting a vaccine can cause that kind of genetic damage -- if that was the case, why aren't we seeing an increase in childhood cancers? Because there is no relation. Stop spreading fallacy Charles.

Wow, wow, stop the presses... have you stumbled on to something that we dont know... please explain further and educate us with your wisdom.

Originally Posted by dhillon09

Also here's a little background on the only 'scientist' to ever correlate the things you are discussing:

Andrew Wakefield (above)
- What did andrew do? He published the only paper EVER in the history of published papers that claimed a link between the MMR vaccine for measles/mumps/rubella and autism. An investigation into his study found:
1) the medical 'study' conducted by andrew included a total of 12 kids in the study -- hugely misrepresented and data was falsified
2) wakefield stood to profit enormously by his results
3) The study constituted abuse of the developmentally disabled children.

10 of the original 13 authors of the paper published a retraction in 2010.

Wakefields findings have never been reproduced or validated by other researchers and in 2010 they banned wakefield from practicing medicine.


You're basing this entire argument on one paper written by a moron who broke the ethical code of medical practitioners by using his position to profit himself by falsifying data. Maybe you don't know how the scientific process works but someone making a claim is never instantly accepted. It is criticized, every little detail from the machinery they used to how well they sanitized test tubes is scrutinized, and only once their data can be replicated by several others does it start to become widely accepted.

Try following the thread next time where I posted short videos showing studies on mercury and aluminum. You're basically spamming to claim that I based my findings on this Wakefield character.

Originally Posted by dhillon09

EDIT:

Charles, since you love figures and graphs so much:

We already showed that these charts are misleading, to use your own phrase... "Stop spreading fallacy" dhillon.



edit

Banned around the world, but not in the United States
That might explain why thimerosal was eliminated in many countries 20 years ago. In 1977, a Russian study found that adults exposed to ethylmercury, the form of mercury in thimerosal, suffered brain damage years later. Studies on thimerosal poisoning also describe tubular necrosis and nervous system injury, including obtundation, coma and death. As a result of these findings, Russia banned thimerosal from children's vaccines in 1980.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/011764_th...#ixzz2x31jiKNu

[wasabisashimi]

Originally Posted by underscore

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you really saying that because the system is already strained it's no big deal to strain it more? Fat people may be a bigger strain but that doesn't mean the strain from disease outbreaks is irrelevant.

That's like saying we shouldn't worry about serial killers because cancer kills more people.

No, I am saying there are many strains on the system. You were talking about sick measles kids as if they were the only strain that were not OK by the society. Are you saying unvaccinated people are like serial killers? Why cant you or the other one answer my question about how we can blame others if vaccine somehow fails to protect you or the vaccine effectiveness expires sooner than projected? My points are still how can be sure everyone response to vaccine the same way at 2months of age, how can we guarantee vaccine effectiveness duration.
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[underscore]

Originally Posted by wasabisashimi

No, I am saying there are many strains on the system. You were talking about sick measles kids as if they were the only strain that were not OK by the society. Are you saying unvaccinated people are like serial killers? Why cant you or the other one answer my question about how we can blame others if vaccine somehow fails to protect you or the vaccine effectiveness expires sooner than projected? My points are still how can be sure everyone response to vaccine the same way at 2months of age, how can we guarantee vaccine effectiveness duration.
Posted via RS Mobile

No, I wasn't. Sorry if it came across that way, obviously any avoidable strain is a bad thing and preventable disease outbreaks are avoidable.

If the vaccine stops working in someone that's where things like herd immunity come into play. If there's a high enough rate of vaccination then a few people not being vaccinated (for any of a number of legitimate reasons) will still be okay.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge

Are you so gullible to think this one debunked study make vaccines safe? How do you know the "corporations" didnt setup it up to fail so that they can manipulate indoctrinated citizens like yourself?

You either have mental issues, or you're the stupidest person I know of.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge

I guess you've seen the study that shows mercury to have no correlation to autism?

Ethyl Mercury/Thimerosal isn't even in most vaccines. Per the Public Health Agency of Canada Do vaccines contain toxic ingredients? - Vaccine Safety - Public Health Agency of Canada

A preservative is added to prevent bacterial growth in multi-dose vials.

Thimerosal is the most effective preservative and has been used safely for over seven decades. Most vaccines licensed in Canada do not contain thimerosal. Only influenza vaccine and most hepatitis B vaccines contain thimerosal.

Theoretical concerns regarding possible mercury toxicity and link to autism have been dismissed with multiple studies that have found no evidence of a link.

Thimerosal contains ethyl mercury in an amount well below established limits of safety. Ethyl mercury is eliminated from the body rapidly and does not accumulate, even in premature infants. This is in contrast to methyl mercury which is found in many foodstuffs, especially fish – and which remains in the body longer and can accumulate.

And per the FDA http://www.fda.gov/biologicsbloodvac...fety/ucm096228

Thimerosal has been removed from or reduced to trace amounts in all vaccines routinely recommended for children 6 years of age and younger, with the exception of inactivated influenza vaccine (see Table 1). A preservative-free version of the inactivated influenza vaccine (contains trace amounts of thimerosal) is available in limited supply at this time for use in infants, children and pregnant women. Some vaccines such as Td, which is indicated for older children (≥ 7 years of age) and adults, are also now available in formulations that are free of thimerosal or contain only trace amounts. Vaccines with trace amounts of thimerosal contain 1 microgram or less of mercury per dose.

In the following pages, a discussion of preservatives, the use of thimerosal as a preservative, guidelines on exposure to organomercurials (primarily methylmercury), thimerosal toxicity, recent and future FDA actions, and the conclusions of the Institute of Medicine's most recent review of thimerosal in vaccines are presented. This narrative on thimerosal contains references to the literature and links to other sites for readers who wish additional information; for quick reference, a number of frequently asked questions (FAQs) and answers are provided.

So even if mercury did cause autism, it isn't in the vaccines anymore.

[RacingMetro92]

Originally Posted by underscore

You either have mental issues, or you're the stupidest person I know of.

It's been well established that it's likely a bit of column A, and a whole lot of column B there. Maybe it comes from not being vaccinated...i don't know.

But whatever the case, CiC is doing his same old argument of ignoring the evidence others have posted, and only wants to see evidence that serves his own purposes so he can spin it his way. He talks about how the charts dhillon has posted is misleading, when CiC constantly posts conspiracy bullshit from the sources he uses. It's hypocritical, but then again, his view of what a proper source is pretty ridiculous.

Google natural news, and while Wikipedia isn't the most reliable of sources, the first sentence says that its a conspiracy theorist website...totally credible.

[wasabisashimi]

Originally Posted by underscore

No, I wasn't. Sorry if it came across that way, obviously any avoidable strain is a bad thing and preventable disease outbreaks are avoidable.

If the vaccine stops working in someone that's where things like herd immunity come into play. If there's a high enough rate of vaccination then a few people not being vaccinated (for any of a number of legitimate reasons) will still be okay.

I agree with you on the herd immunity concept except i dont see it being realistic since we just have no way to track the number of people who actually are protected within the said protection length. Its a good theory but they arent sure if we have actually reach herd immunity number. Some vaccines didnt activate immunity, some immunity expired unexpectedly early, some vaccinated people just never bothered to update they 30yr old record ( that would be me).

I will just rather deal with measles when i get infected with it, take the known symptoms and trust my immune system to function (as a healthy person) instead of relying on vaccine which still has too many unknowns in its effectiveness and its long term effect. It is a risk that i am willing to take and it should not be mandatory and become a judgemental issue.

[CharlesInCharge]

Interesting findings in the last link regarding Tetanust shots.

if you look back before there was a tetanus vaccine, the incidence of tetanus in newborn babies was almost nothing. Zero. Most of the tetanus cases were people over the age of 25, and the number of tetanus cases in the United States was infinitesimally small even before there was a vaccine.

Source - The Health Ranger interviews neurosurgeon Dr. Russell Blaylock on mandatory vaccine trials, fraudulent vaccine science and vaccine ethics



Antibodies Do Not Equal Immunity (Tetanust)
A Dose of Reality: Tetanus Vaccines Fail To Protect | The MommypotamusThe Mommypotamus |

Originally Posted by underscore

You either have mental issues, or you're the stupidest person I know of.

Congratulations you made my ignore list.

[RacingMetro92]

And like a child plugging his ears, he becomes deaf to those trying to start a debate and kicking his ass at it. Welcome to the club underscore.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge

Congratulations you made my ignore list.

Originally Posted by RacingMetro92

And like a child plugging his ears, he becomes deaf to those trying to start a debate and kicking his ass at it. Welcome to the club underscore.
Posted via RS Mobile

You're luckier than I.... *sigh*

[underscore]

Originally Posted by wasabisashimi

I agree with you on the herd immunity concept except i dont see it being realistic since we just have no way to track the number of people who actually are protected within the said protection length. Its a good theory but they arent sure if we have actually reach herd immunity number. Some vaccines didnt activate immunity, some immunity expired unexpectedly early, some vaccinated people just never bothered to update they 30yr old record ( that would be me).

I will just rather deal with measles when i get infected with it, take the known symptoms and trust my immune system to function (as a healthy person) instead of relying on vaccine which still has too many unknowns in its effectiveness and its long term effect. It is a risk that i am willing to take and it should not be mandatory and become a judgemental issue.

I have a hard time following your thought process here, regardless of what you decide to do at least quarantine yourself should you get measles or whatever (although I have a feeling I don't need to tell you that).

Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge

Congratulations you made my ignore list.

Aww did I hurt his feelings?

Originally Posted by RacingMetro92

And like a child plugging his ears, he becomes deaf to those trying to start a debate and kicking his ass at it. Welcome to the club underscore.
Posted via RS Mobile

It doesn't surprise me, if anything he's just confirming the validity of what I'm saying.

Now for this club, are there meeting? I can bring some muffins.

[gars]

This seems relevant here.

Researchers at the University of California, San Diego School of Medicine and the Allen Institute for Brain Science have published a study that gives clear and direct new evidence that autism begins during pregnancy.

The study will be published in the March 27 online edition of the New England Journal of Medicine.

The researchers – Eric Courchesne, PhD, professor of neurosciences and director of the Autism Center of Excellence at UC San Diego, Ed S. Lein, PhD, of the Allen Institute for Brain Science in Seattle, and first author Rich Stoner, PhD, of the UC San Diego Autism Center of Excellence – analyzed 25 genes in post-mortem brain tissue of children with and without autism. These included genes that serve as biomarkers for brain cell types in different layers of the cortex, genes implicated in autism and several control genes.

“Building a baby’s brain during pregnancy involves creating a cortex that contains six layers,” Courchesne said. “We discovered focal patches of disrupted development of these cortical layers in the majority of children with autism.” Stoner created the first three-dimensional model visualizing brain locations where patches of cortex had failed to develop the normal cell-layering pattern.

“The most surprising finding was the similar early developmental pathology across nearly all of the autistic brains, especially given the diversity of symptoms in patients with autism, as well as the extremely complex genetics behind the disorder,” explained Lein.
During early brain development, each cortical layer develops its own specific types of brain cells, each with specific patterns of brain connectivity that perform unique and important roles in processing information. As a brain cell develops into a specific type in a specific layer with specific connections, it acquires a distinct genetic signature or “marker” that can be observed.

The study found that in the brains of children with autism, key genetic markers were absent in brain cells in multiple layers. “This defect,” Courchesne said, “indicates that the crucial early developmental step of creating six distinct layers with specific types of brain cells – something that begins in prenatal life – had been disrupted.”

Equally important, said the scientists, these early developmental defects were present in focal patches of cortex, suggesting the defect is not uniform throughout the cortex. The brain regions most affected by focal patches of absent gene markers were the frontal and the temporal cortex, possibly illuminating why different functional systems are impacted across individuals with the disorder.

The frontal cortex is associated with higher-order brain function, such as complex communication and comprehension of social cues. The temporal cortex is associated with language. The disruptions of frontal and temporal cortical layers seen in the study may underlie symptoms most often displayed in autistic spectrum disorders. The visual cortex – an area of the brain associated with perception that tends to be spared in autism – displayed no abnormalities.

“The fact that we were able to find these patches is remarkable, given that the cortex is roughly the size of the surface of a basketball, and we only examined pieces of tissue the size of a pencil eraser,” said Lein. “This suggests that these abnormalities are quite pervasive across the surface of the cortex.”

Data collected for the Allen Brain Atlas, as well as the BrainSpan Atlas of the Developing Human Brain was developed by a consortium of partners and funded by the National Institute of Mental Health. It allowed scientists to identify specific genes in the developing human brain that could be used as biomarkers for the different layer cell types.

Researching the origins of autism is challenging because it typically relies upon studying adult brains and attempting to extrapolate backwards. “In this case,” Lein noted, “we were able to study autistic and control cases at a young age, giving us a unique insight into how autism presents in the developing brain.”

“The finding that these defects occur in patches rather than across the entirety of cortex gives hope as well as insight about the nature of autism,” added Courchesne.

According to the scientists, such patchy defects, as opposed to uniform cortical pathology, may help explain why many toddlers with autism show clinical improvement with early treatment and over time. The findings support the idea that in children with autism the brain can sometimes rewire connections to circumvent early focal defects, raising hope that understanding these patches may eventually open new avenues to explore how that improvement occurs.

Additional contributors to the study include Maggie L. Chow, PhD, and Subhojit Roy, MD, PhD, UC San Diego; Maureen P. Boyle, PhD, UC San Diego and Allen Institute; Peter R. Mouton, PhD, University of South Florida School of Medicine; Anthony Wynshaw-Boris, MD, PhD, Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine; and Sophia A. Colamarino, PhD, Stanford University School of Medicine.
This research was supported by funds from the Simons Foundation, the Peter Emch Family Foundation, Cure Autism Now/Autism Speaks, the Thursday Club Juniors, the UC San Diego Autism Center of Excellence (NIMH grant P50-MH081755), and the Allen Institute for Brain Science (NIMH grant RC2MH089921).

Patches of Cortical Layers Disrupted During Early Brain Development in Autism

[Brianrietta]

Croatian Court Upholds Vaccine Mandate

Croatia's Constitutional Court has upheld compulsory vaccination laws against nine infectious diseases. The court's statement has been translated as reading, “The child’s right to health is more than the rights of parents to the (wrong) choice.”

Croatia and its neighbor Slovenia have been at the forefront of universal vaccination. While most governments advocate in favor of vaccination, and in some cases provide financial incentives, only a few make childhood vaccination compulsory.

According to a study of 29 European countries, “15 countries do not have any mandatory vaccinations; the remaining 14 countries have at least one mandatory vaccination included in their program”. Moreover, most of these do not enforce the laws, provide extensive opt-out clauses, or make vaccination universal only against a small number of diseases.

Since Croatia made vaccinations universal in 1999 diphtheria, whooping cough and measles have disappeared entirely and tuberculosis has decreased by 93%, tetanus by 97% and hepatitis B by 65%.

Possibly because of this success, however, Croatia has experienced substantial resistance to what was once an uncontroversial policy. Having achieved universal vaccination for a decade (presumably excluding cases where there was a valid medical reason) 28 children went unvaccinated in 2012, according to official records, and in 2013 this climbed to 143. While these numbers are not enough to generate the sorts of outbreaks seen in the US and UK as a result of campaigns by anti-vax lobbyists, the direction is clear.

The potential scale of the revolt is indicated by 10,000 people signing a petition claiming, "the vaccination of healthy children poses a threat to their health." Inevitably the law was challenged in court, but the highest court in the land has now endorsed it. The decision has been hailed by the Croatian Medical Association and the Croatian Institute for Public Health.

The implications of a let up in vaccination regimes can be seen in Syria where the war has interrupted the childhood immunization program. As a result polio, recently confined to just three countries, is now spiraling out of control in Syria. Children, including those who make it to refugee camps in surrounding countries, are being sentenced to lifelong paralysis.

Failing to vaccinate a child against a transmissible disease is analogous to strapping a bomb to their chest and sending them out in public – if something triggers an explosion they are the most likely one to die, but there is a substantial risk everyone close to them will get hurt as well.

[CharlesInCharge]

A parent's response to The New York Time's 'Eliminate Vaccine Exemptions' goes viral

A Parent's Response to the New York Times' Article: Eliminate Vaccine Exemptions - LivingWhole.org

[rcoccultwar]

Revscene sucks lol. Anyways, not sure if its a conspiracy based site but 15 minutes of reading.

Natural Health News, Natural Remedies and Wellness Tips: The Hornets? Nest of Vaccine Information

[CRS]

Originally Posted by rcowboy

Revscene sucks lol. Anyways, not sure if its a conspiracy based site but 15 minutes of reading.

Natural Health News, Natural Remedies and Wellness Tips: The Hornets? Nest of Vaccine Information

rcowboy sucks lol.

[kross9]

Great a 15 page post on conspiracy theories. What is worse than anti-Vacc people; is people who refuse blood transfusions spite it saving the person... God damn Jehovah witnesses... I dont know maybe the Jeho's got in big and are spreading their religion.