Richmond bus shelter ads fuel language debate

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

oh there's this area in east hastings where everyone kinda speaks in slurs and slangs. they all smell like dead cats... they never interact with me unless they're asking for money or food... and when they're together i can't understand what they're saying. they speak some language that normal ppl cant understand. the other day i heard some of their language... i heard things like "rocks" and "bags"... what kinda language are they speaking?

I feel totally alienated. I think they should dress and speak and act like normal canadians. I feel canadians are losing their identity. I'm afraid for our future and my kids.

[320icar]

Lol, worst reference ever.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Yodamaster]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

when i walk down commercial street i feel alienated.

there's all these people with hoops in their ears, and wearing these weird skinny jeans, flannel shirts, and thick brimmed glasses. like, even when they don't need glasses.

they all look like they make 15k net a year, but spend 30k a year.

they all have this weird culture of only hanging with each other, and listening and watching music and movies that no ones ever heard of.

when i walk down with my brand name labels i get sneered at. I feel unwelcomed.

I think we should regulate that area of town, it makes me feel very unwelcomed. very uncanadian (flannel shirts exempt from this uncanadianness).

every time i go to a bar there, one of these weird people always come up to me and act all friendly, and chat me up... pretend they're some awesome like director of all graphic designers or some shit, but clearly they're just wearing supervalue discount bin clothes... and like 4min later of pretending to be articulate and cultured, they ask me if i have any coke or anything else i can share with them.

I think before anyone comes into canada they should pass a retard test. if they fail, they should simply be kicked outta canada.

I want canada to be retard free.

How does that relate to this language debate at all?

I don't give a shit if Chinese immigrants put charms on their doors and cook fish every night, but this is Canada, and our official languages are English and French. An ad aimed at a small portion of immigrants doesn't really matter, but a household brand such as Crest shouldn't be able to ignore the official language(s) in public.

I have a feeling that the hipsters on commercial speak english.


People say that not allowing a foreign language on a public display without english representation is racist, but the more this happens, the more it segregates that district to the other 99% of Canada.

[snails]

Originally Posted by Yodamaster

How does that relate to this language debate at all?

I don't give a shit if Chinese immigrants put charms on their doors and cook fish every night, but this is Canada, and our official languages are English and French. An ad aimed at a small portion of immigrants doesn't really matter, but a household brand such as Crest shouldn't be able to ignore the official language(s) in public.

I have a feeling that the hipsters on commercial speak english.


People say that not allowing a foreign language on a public display without english representation is racist, but the more this happens, the more it segregates that district to the other 99% of Canada.

[gars]

Originally Posted by Yodamaster

An ad aimed at a small portion of immigrants doesn't really matter, but a household brand such as Crest shouldn't be able to ignore the official language(s) in public.

what difference does it make if it's in the public, or an ad in a newspaper/magazine? or what about the non-english radio stations?

And what does it matter if it's a "household" brand - that doesn't support your argument. So a local mom and pop shop can advertise in a foreign language, but Procter and Gamble must advertise in English?

My point is, where do you get to draw the line? The bus stop has licensed out their space to an advertising company - and in turn, I'm sure they get a percentage of the profit. Because Translink is a crown corp, does that mean all advertising on their property must be in an Official Language?

What about advertising that have no words - would that be allowed? what if the advertising just showed the chinese character for love tattooed on someone's arm, would that be considered a foreign language, or is that considered art?

I don't like segregated communities - but I just don't see how we can control what someone puts up as an advertisement, unless it's discriminatory, sexual, etc.

[stewie]

Originally Posted by gars

what difference does it make if it's in the public, or an ad in a newspaper/magazine? or what about the non-english radio stations?

And what does it matter if it's a "household" brand - that doesn't support your argument. So a local mom and pop shop can advertise in a foreign language, but Procter and Gamble must advertise in English?

My point is, where do you get to draw the line? The bus stop has licensed out their space to an advertising company - and in turn, I'm sure they get a percentage of the profit. Because Translink is a crown corp, does that mean all advertising on their property must be in an Official Language?

What about advertising that have no words - would that be allowed? what if the advertising just showed the chinese character for love tattooed on someone's arm, would that be considered a foreign language, or is that considered art?

I don't like segregated communities - but I just don't see how we can control what someone puts up as an advertisement, unless it's discriminatory, sexual, etc.

i think it makes quite a big difference...

if its an ad in a asian newspaper, go for it, odds are that if your reading the paper...you can read the ad. if its on a big sign in an open street where the official language is english/french, it bugs me....despite the way you (or others who dont mind this) may feel, but im prettttty sure it pisses off a LOT of people. i see posters for red fm...i know its a radio station i cant understand, and i know i wont listen to it for that reason. but i also dont see them throwing their language in my face. truthfully everyone i know cant stand the fact that they're allowed to do this.

a mom and pop store is just that. mom and pop. crest has a higher reputation and higher standards to live upon. i wouldn't be surprised if they get some hate mail by some pissed off people who live in the area.

if an ad has no words but just the character love tattooed on a guys arm, i could care less. fuck make it a black and grey poster and sell it to calvin klein...

it should be simple to keep it from segregating...just keep it english or french.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

well for those too idiotic to understand, my references were satirical. but nevertheless, they have a point.

You guys bitch about language, I bitch about personal presentation.

where do you draw the line?

and official language... that's a dead argument...

A country's official language refers to the language used within its government... courts parliaments and administration. Since the means of expression of the people cannot be changed by any law, the term "OFFICIAL LANGUAGE" does not refer to the language used by the people of the country, but by its government.

official language is used for OFFICIAL BUSINESS.

the language of the people are dictated by.... wait for it... THE PEOPLE.

as for segregated communities... that's exactly why i brought up hipsters and junkies.
their communities are pretty much as segregated from you, as richmond is from you.


this isn't a language debate. it's a difference debate.

you guys don't like the language difference. i don't like the presentation difference. it's all the same.

I deal with it. cuz i know people from all over the globe are different. i accept that fact. i don't impose my values on them, they can segregate and do whatever they want. but since im flexible, im still able to interact with them, cuz im willing to learn their values and use their values when i talk to them.

you guys don't deal with it. you guys just want people to bend their will to your values because of a PATHETIC reason of feeling "uncomfortable" (man the fuck up, deal with it, the world doesnt revolve around you).

and like i said. official language is a dead argument. your guys's idea and definition of "official language" is incorrect.

and as for segregation, i already mentioned it... we're all segregated into our own cultures and "groups" already.

any feeling of segregation or loss of identity is SELF IMPOSED. you guys are imposing and creating that own problem for yourselves.

if you just got along and accepted, no one would complain or bitch or fight. but you guys CAUSE the problem by imposing your will on others.

my two examples of hipsters and junkies were exaggerated, but has truth cuz that's how the general stubborn population views them as.
but really when i walk down commercial or east hastings, i don't feel threatened or uncomfortable. because i know thats the way THOSE people are. thats THEIR little culture and they got their lives working that way. I can fucking go in there and protest, or throw tomatoes at them or kill them off. but really? who the fuck cares. I learn about their ways and when im there, i can navigate their way. i have become better, more fuller, more of a globalist.

you can't fucking force people to do things a certain way (especially when they're not physically harming anyone or breaking any major laws).





lets take this to an extreme. lets say we get up in arms and we're willing to go to war and draw blood. are you guys willing to take it to that level? i know some of you guys probably would. slippery slope.

so ... the solution is, how about we all just accept each other and not let it get to that segregated level where one side IMPOSES their WILL and VALUES on others, and forces the situation to get ugly.

just everyone shut the fuck up and mind your own god damn business right? isn't that always the best solution?

*cocks rifle*
wanna fight?

lets just kill each other, the winner gets to make the rules. that'll work too.

[Gululu]

there are thousands of ads in completely english (or other foreign language) in china. i dont see any chinese complain about it. so why do canadians complain? oh right because "uncomfortable" lmao. talk about selfishness and narrow minded

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

as for PG using chinese ad... lol

they probably just recycled an ad from asia, knowing the masses here are asian. it's called marketing.

they're allowed to do it because it's legal, and they run a multi billion dollar business and they know business more than any of you guys do. They know what works and what makes money. they KNOW how to target the people they WANT to target.

they're allowed to do this because we live in a WESTERN nation, where CAPITALISM RULES ALL. understand?

it's BUSINESS.

this isn't a totalitarian or communist state.

why the FUCK would they put an english sign here, when most people here will just walk past it and ignore it? WHY THE FUCK WOULD A BILLION DOLLAR COMPANY, WASTE THEIR FUCKING MONEY on that? WHY?

if you made them post it in english, you know what P&G would do? they would say "fuck you" and not want to waste any money and remove the ad.
that's what they'd do. because it's a fucking BUSINESS.

before you guys argue back. consider these vital points.

we represent capitalism. we are capitalists.
businesses are the backbone of capitalism
marketing and advertisement drive businesses
people are attracted to advertisements
advertisements are supposed to be efficient in targeting the specific people needed by the businesses dictating the advertisements

understand?

PG are smarter, and more efficient than any of you. the fact that they probably already have a huge westerner market, they would rather target the chinese, who might not have PG brand loyalty. it's a fucking strategy. u know? they're not stupid. they know what they are doing. they're targetting chinese people for THEIR OWN CORPORATE REASONS. and u cant dictate their reasons. they are their own company, with their own values and wants and needs. they can dictate their strategies however they want.

what do you guys wanna do now? dictate how businesses can run? down to who they can advertise to? why don't you guys just let the government take over everything? yeah? oh wait... cuz we're capitalists.

don't associate the west to 'good values' and whatever disillusioned delusional perception of what you think "canada" is.

the west represents free capitalistic trade. you are a capitalist FIRST, and whatever your values are SECOND.

you're a soldier of capitalism. whether you like it or not. now go out and fucking spend some money where you WANT.

you guys are forgetting that advertisements are just that. advertisements. just like the spam ads you see all over revscene or when you do a google search or the shit before youtube. you just fucking ignore it if it doesnt appeal to you. and you click on it if it does.

if you see an ad for gay night a celebrities in english, do you go and feel welcomed cuz it's in english? you suddenly gonna wanna go to gay night? NO. you just fucking ignore it cuz that's not what you're into. the ad was targeting the LGBT community. NOT YOU.

now why would it matter if it were in some other language? what if the gays spoke their own gay language? and the ad was in gay language? would you get all upset? WHY the FUCK would you even care? the club caters to the gays, NOT YOU. RIGHT?

don't you guys see how your logic is being totally skewed by your emotional insecurities? you feel negative, therefore you perceive the ads as negative. how about you just grow a fucking pair of balls and suddenly it's not so negative and scary anymore?

[gars]

Originally Posted by stewie

if its an ad in a asian newspaper, go for it, odds are that if your reading the paper...you can read the ad. if its on a big sign in an open street where the official language is english/french, it bugs me....despite the way you (or others who dont mind this) may feel, but im prettttty sure it pisses off a LOT of people. i see posters for red fm...i know its a radio station i cant understand, and i know i wont listen to it for that reason. but i also dont see them throwing their language in my face. truthfully everyone i know cant stand the fact that they're allowed to do this.

Sure, it pisses people off - but people get pissed off all the time about things that aren't illegal. I've met people who get pissed off when they see an interacial couple on the street. I've met people who get pissed off when they meet two guys holding hands. I've met people who are pissed off when they see a man wearing a Taqiyah (Muslim "Cap"). You're allowed to be pissed off - There is no law out there that can control your emotions - just like legally - there is no law to control what you're pissed about.

I can understand why people would get upset at SUCCESS who ran an advertisement for gambling addiction in Chinese - because they are mostly taxpayer funded, and they have a mandate to help ALL immigrants, not just those who speak/read Chinese. However, PG is not publicly funded - you can't control what they do with their money. If they decide to run an advertisement that will eventually turn people away from their brands - that is their prerogative.

[stewie]

I deal with it. cuz i know people from all over the globe are different. i accept that fact. i don't impose my values on them, they can segregate and do whatever they want. but since im flexible, im still able to interact with them, cuz im willing to learn their values and use their values when i talk to them.

yes, people are different, and if they were all as flexible as you, then im sure they'd learn english but they dont, and lots of them have no intention on doing so, they expect everyone else to cater to them. I have no intention of learning chinese/mandarin/russian/hebrew etc, but im also not going to go to their homeland and act like me and the other canadians I find own the place. im willing to talk to anyone like a normal human being, so long as they're willing to put forth the effort that I put into them. if not, in my mind, they can go **** themselves.

[Yodamaster]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

We represent capitalism. we are capitalists.

In order to survive in North America as it currently is, everyone needs to resort to playing the capitalist game. Despite that, some of us do not support capitalism.

[MarkyMark]

Fuck it I'm switching to Colgate, PG ain't worth the mouthwash I spit back in the sink
Posted via RS Mobile

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Originally Posted by stewie

yes, people are different, and if they were all as flexible as you, then im sure they'd learn english but they dont, and lots of them have no intention on doing so, they expect everyone else to cater to them. I have no intention of learning chinese/mandarin/russian/hebrew etc, but im also not going to go to their homeland and act like me and the other canadians I find own the place. im willing to talk to anyone like a normal human being, so long as they're willing to put forth the effort that I put into them. if not, in my mind, they can go **** themselves.

yeah but they are not as flexible as me.

and neither are you.

so what is the solution?

so here's we have a game... and we have some rules...
1) some people are inflexible (applies to both sides).
2) we cannot force them to be flexible or learn new things (applies to both sides).

yeah you have no intention of learning any other language.
and they have no intention of learning any other language.

who's right?
just cuz they're in canada doesn't make you right. canada is not yours. it's theirs too.
that's the fundamental problem with your guys's thinking. and why you are in an outrage. you think you claim this land or cuz you were here first, that it's yours to represent... but you're wrong. it's EVERYONE's. anyone that is here. even if they don't speak a lick of english, never went camping, don't play hockey. they still are just as much canadian as you are.

so back to the problem... both sides are inflexible. so the obvious solution is, i give you a gun, and i give them a gun, and whoever walks out of the fight wins right?

cuz obviously both sides wont budge.

or maybe we can be civilized human beings and fucking just LET IT BE.

if you don't let it be, then it boils down to fighting. this isn't just one incident. this is a huge population that now represents canada as much as you do. and since there's a lot of them. their opinions, values, and way of life matter just as much as yours.

you have no intention of going to their homeland? great. no one cares.
a lot of canadians and other westerners have done so already.

tons of chinese will never come here either and don't even wanna set foot here.
they're just like you. but chinese version.

so what?

people don't care what you will do dude.


you won't do this, so you expect them not to?
lol... the world doesnt work like that man.

if you think it's fair that you didn't try to eat the lion, doesn't mean the lion won't try to eat you.

you say you're willing to talk to a human as long as they put effort you put into them.
but you're not putting any effort at all. you expect them to put effort into you first?
don't u see how that thinking/value system doesnt get you jack shit?

they're doing the same thing to you. they don't wanna learn english. what the fuck are you gonna do about it?
you don't wanna learn chinese. what the fuck are they gonan do about it?

they're willing to put as much effort as you put into them first too.




you have a very wrong perspective of how they come here and expect people to cater to them. it's not like that.
they came here, for whatever reason they want.
and there's already a lot of chinese here. and lots of chinese born canadians too. the culture is already here. it just so happens that they dont NEED to learn english. it's not that they don't put effort. it's just that canada has adapted to another language because there are enough people here that speak that langauge. understand?

it's not like they came here and STOLE your langauge, and everyone that puts up chinese signs are doing it FOR the chinese. NO.

the businesses put it up for CHINESE because that is the RESULT of reality.

the signs came AFTER the chinese. not the other way around.

they didn't steal anything. they didnt demand anything.

nothing is permanent. not culture, not values, not your canada. things changed. and you didn't.
like all the other old grumpy people... you can go think about the "good old days" while the world evolves without you.

or you can accept it and realise your idea of the world has been shattered and things change all the time. you have to adapt. that is life. the world doesn't revolve around YOU.

canada is not YOURS. your values don't represent CANADA.

there are PLENTY of canadians that support this, and a lot of 1st and 2nd and 3rd generation canadian chinese that don't mind and are willing to support this as well. ALL their opinions count just as much as yours. and there's more of them. this is a capitalistic democracy. the people dictate what happens.

Originally Posted by Yodamaster

In order to survive in North America as it currently is, everyone needs to resort to playing the capitalist game. Despite that, some of us do not support capitalism.

yeah well, then go run a party and hope you win some seats, or try to take over canada with force. bitching about ads won't change capitalism or the ad problem.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

Originally Posted by gars

Sure, it pisses people off - but people get pissed off all the time about things that aren't illegal. I've met people who get pissed off when they see an interacial couple on the street. I've met people who get pissed off when they meet two guys holding hands. I've met people who are pissed off when they see a man wearing a Taqiyah (Muslim "Cap"). You're allowed to be pissed off - There is no law out there that can control your emotions - just like legally - there is no law to control what you're pissed about.

I can understand why people would get upset at SUCCESS who ran an advertisement for gambling addiction in Chinese - because they are mostly taxpayer funded, and they have a mandate to help ALL immigrants, not just those who speak/read Chinese. However, PG is not publicly funded - you can't control what they do with their money. If they decide to run an advertisement that will eventually turn people away from their brands - that is their prerogative.

this.

everyone re-read this as many times as it takes for you to understand the concept.


if i was PG and marketing told me i might lose a few thousand people because of this ad, but i will gain 100x as many chinese followers.
well fuck those 1000 people. i want money. i want to cater to the crowd. the crowd just happens to be chinese in richmond.

ever go to a price smart foods in surrey? and in richmond? do you get pissed off when half the store is indian stuff in surrey? and when half the stuff is chinese stuff in richmond? do you feel like you have the right to tell price smart what to put on their shelves? you think you have the right to tell them how to make money?

dude... the results are capitalistic driven. they target, and market the biggest crowds they can lure in, with whatever it takes. and in this instance, you cater to chinese, with CHINESE language.

like my gay bar advertisement example.... you don't bitch at celebrities for ads that target gays only do you? does it piss you off when you see a HUGE BILLBOARD with two males and a number to call for some gay hot sex chat? OBVIOUSLY it's not for you. and they don't give a FUCK what you think. they're trying to fish in the homos. and if you're not a homo, need not apply... and if you're glad you can READ the gay ads cuz they're in english... that is your OWN PERSONAL OPINION AND FEELINGS. no one else gives a fuck if you can read it or not. you feeling "UNCOMFORTABLE" with not being able to read ads in other languages (that aren't even targeting you)... as ridiculous as me being uncomfortable when i see a fat chick wearing tight pants. that's our own problem and insecurity we have to overcome ourselves to become BETTER human beings.

it's THAT simple. the companies are legally individuals with money, in which they can spend in any way they want.



like seriously, what is it that you guys don't get?

think about it, if you were in a position of power and peace and everyone getting along was your priority how could u handle this situation?
you would seriously just kick them all out? lol. yeah the world will really respect you as a leader and country after that... lol.
you have to just let them be. you can't FORCE people to fucking live some way of life man. there is NO solution other than this one.
you guys are only considering how you FEEL. which is IRRELEVANT in the big picture. what about economic impact? what about country relations? what about global relations? and the thousands of other points which are all WAY more important than how YOU FEEL.
understand? you're just an ant. the colony is what matters. not you. colonies don't revolve around single individuals... unless you're in north korea... then the whole nation revolves around a single individual and how he feels.
if you don't like someone, you can execute them by feeding them to starving hounds. you can do WHATEVER YOU FEEL!!!
but we're lucky we don't live in a place like that. we're lucky individuals can't make decisions based on subjective feelings.

if you wanna go somewhere where there are rules enforcing that, then move to quebec. and we all know how all of canada feels about quebec.
you really wanna be like them?

There's no such thing as "as long as im happy i don't give a fuck about the other shit". your happiness does not reflect reality. your insecurity with a foreign language is just that. an insecurity. go see a therapist. a psychologist. chinese, which has 955 million native speakers (14.4% of the world).... is a lot more than 5.43% of native english speakers... 100% chinese aint going away. it's going to grow. and spread. your kids kids will be learning that shit you understand?

it doesn't matter if we're in canada... cuz canada doesn't have a fucking invisible shield around it and we don't run independently and we are not self sufficient. we are part of a greater whole called the globe. and the globe dictates everything. your country and nation are second to the world. understand? we are connected and rely on other countries/people/values and their "stuff" to operate.