School districts across B.C. planning deep cuts to balance budgets

[4444]

Originally Posted by Shark Tank

Does anyone realistically think we see so many Teacher strikes if cost of living weren't so high. How many teacher strikes you hear in Saskatchewan or Manitoba or PEI

Face it, the housing cost is one of the leading factors because teachers want to be compensated. They are smart too because they have insane leverage knowing there profession is invaluable. Nobody want to see kids not being teached or get there education. It puts massive pressure on government to appease there wishes!

cost of living is not low in vancouver, but it's hardly the picture you paint.

all the teachers i know are hardly living in squallier (quite the opposite, one lives in a nice beach community - hubby is a carpenter or something, respectable, but not mega rich)...

correct me if i'm wrong, but it's not the teachers, it's their representatives that are acting on behalf of them. much like it is our elected government that acts on our behalf on this matter, even though 99.9% of ppl just say "fuck it, get the kids back in school"

[melloman]

Might put massive pressure on the govt but I'd rather have lots of pressure and pissed off people.. than giving the BCTF another $300 million.

Teachers think this huge ordeal is making the govt look stupid and cheap, yet in my eyes it's just abunch of whiny kids wanting something and seeing how far they can push it. God, if I went to my boss and told him I want to work less, get paid substantially more, and have to look after fewer things.. well I'd be laughed at and fired.

[dbaz]

lots of you guys are unfortunately misinformed on what you think teachers actually do. try having one as a parent, and realize how much they have to do for this so called "easy 9 month work year".

[ZN6]

Originally Posted by Shark Tank

Does anyone realistically think we see so many Teacher strikes if cost of living weren't so high. How many teacher strikes you hear in Saskatchewan or Manitoba or PEI

Face it, the housing cost is one of the leading factors because teachers want to be compensated. They are smart too because they have insane leverage knowing there profession is invaluable. Nobody want to see kids not being teached or get there education. It puts massive pressure on government to appease there wishes!

This post is the epitome of failure that is the B.C. English curriculum. Herpity derpity doo.

[4444]

Originally Posted by dbaz

lots of you guys are unfortunately misinformed on what you think teachers actually do. try having one as a parent, and realize how much they have to do for this so called "easy 9 month work year".

Join the club for people that work hard for their money.

Working ur arse off is nothing new. Teachers have it no worse than the average cat, some have it easier than others, and that goes for teachers.

If they want a better deal, they need a better head of their union, simple as that.

Let's not forget the barrier to entry to becoming a teacher is quite low (a bs degree and 1 yr b.ed.) - the world is based on supply and demand, the only variable here to fuck up the invisible hand of economics is the shit union the teachers have, and the arsehole politicians in power

[westopher]

I'm glad someone posted the reality of how things work in the Canadian economy. The 10000 education graduates with no jobs would be happy to take some of the teachers places if they don't like their jobs. Is teaching a hard job? It sure is. So is construction, cooking, serving, banking, engineering, medical, firefighting, etc. If you really think that your job is that out of balance, go find a new career.
I understand, thats not what the strike is ALL about, and I strongly support the teachers demands for more aides for special needs students. That said, if there is no money in the budget for it, and you truly want to paint the picture that you care about the students, maybe you need to take the raises out of your demands and meet in the middle with the government. Both sides are trying so hard to manipulate the public through the media, and both look like idiots. It also doesn't help that the head of the teachers union looks like a serial killer.

[4444]

VERY well said, esp. the last bit

[Traum]

With the most recently collapsed talks (negotiations), I would already interpret the BCTF to be sending a message that they are not primarily in this negotiation and job action for their own salary increases. Peter Fassbender (education minister) has already offered to only negotiate on wage issues, and his reasons for leaving the class size and composition clauses behind are because "the ruling is currently being appealed at the court". If the BCTF is only interested in wage negotiations, they should have taken Fassbender's offer, and I am sure something would have worked out.

In my eyes, the BCTF is resting on the fact that the supreme court ruling is in their favour, and they are not going to settle for anything less than what the court ruled.

I am generally a law-abiding citizen, and more than anything else, I think any government should follow their own laws, especially when a decision has already been given out by the government's own law courts. I am not discrediting that an appeal is in progress, but until the appeal process is finished, shouldn't all parties involved abide by the conditions of the most current ruling? In the legal world as I understand it, I am innocent until proven guilty, but if a ruling has already dictated that I am guilty, then I would have no choice but to serve whatever sentences the ruling has given me even though I might have filed an appeal. How can the government so blatantly and unashamedly violate its own laws, ignores its own court rulings, and not pay up?

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ coz you are talking about crack clark. When did she ever kept the promise she spoken of? Also she even lost at her own distract. The least she could do is step down as a party leader, but she refuse.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Let's put it this way. Most of us work 9 to 5 after work if we stay for OT we get OT pay or bank it as vacation. Teachers don't do that. If teachers were doing just 8 hours like us and demand OT pay when it is over 8 hours or simply stop caring after 8 hours all those extra activities at school will be cancel. No more after school sports, sports team , band trips, Tutor etc etc........ Also special students needs a lot of attentions.

i REMEMBER when I was younger I have major vision issue and having more time spend with my teachers after school is very important so I can catch up with notes and ask any questions I have because I can't see clearly. I am sure it will be pretty shitty for me if my teachers told me "well I love to help but is after 8 hours so my day is over. You are on your own." So having smaller classroom size is very important.

[quasi]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

Let's put it this way. Most of us work 9 to 5 after work if we stay for OT we get OT pay or bank it as vacation. Teachers don't do that. If teachers were doing just 8 hours like us and demand OT pay when it is over 8 hours or simply stop caring after 8 hours all those extra activities at school will be cancel. No more after school sports, sports team , band trips, Tutor etc etc........ Also special students needs a lot of attentions.

i REMEMBER when I was younger I have major vision issue and having more time spend with my teachers after school is very important so I can catch up with notes and ask any questions I have because I can't see clearly. I am sure it will be pretty shitty for me if my teachers told me "well I love to help but is after 8 hours so my day is over. You are on your own." So having smaller classroom size is very important.

Not where I work, most of us are working 9-10 hours a day (salary no OT) and through our lunches half the time but to be fair I have taken 3 days off this year above and beyond long weekends so I'm not complaining..........no really I'm not I knew what I was getting into.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by quasi

Not where I work, most of us are working 9-10 hours a day (salary no OT) and through our lunches half the time but to be fair I have taken 3 days off this year above and beyond long weekends so I'm not complaining..........no really I'm not I knew what I was getting into.

Do you work 9-10 hours a day because you WANT to, or because you HAVE to, to ensure that deadlines are met?

Teachers don't have to volunteer their time for extra curricular activities... but many of them do.

[4444]

Originally Posted by Gumby

Do you work 9-10 hours a day because you WANT to, or because you HAVE to, to ensure that deadlines are met?

Teachers don't have to volunteer their time for extra curricular activities... but many of them do.

Isn't that a stupid question? If ur working 9-10 hrs, it's bc it's needed, or the norm. Want or need isn't really the question, you may not need to work 9-10 hrs, but if u don't, u may not get promoted, so really is it want or need?

[quasi]

I do it to make deadlines that are set by others. I estimate and manage commercial construction and have closing times that have to be met. Like I said I'm not complaining for the most part I don't mind my job and the hours are whatever, you get used to it.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by 4444

Isn't that a stupid question? If ur working 9-10 hrs, it's bc it's needed, or the norm. Want or need isn't really the question, you may not need to work 9-10 hrs, but if u don't, u may not get promoted, so really is it want or need?

I guess the point I was trying to make (but did a poor job of doing so) is that there are two types of teachers: those that work 9-3 for 9 months a year, and those that put in all sorts of extra hours volunteering because they want to make a difference in their students' lives. Hopefully there are more teachers in the latter category.

How the teachers that do extra are compensated/promoted/evaluated differently, I do not know.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Gumby

I guess the point I was trying to make (but did a poor job of doing so) is that there are two types of teachers: those that work 9-3 for 9 months a year, and those that put in all sorts of extra hours volunteering because they want to make a difference in their students' lives. Hopefully there are more teachers in the latter category.

How the teachers that do extra are compensated/promoted/evaluated differently, I do not know.

They don't.

[dbaz]

there aren't any that work from 9-3. legally, they have to be there 15minutes before and after. add to the fact there is usually unpaid meetings in the morning, lunch, and/or after school, that have to be attended. plus any other stuff they do to help students, parents, or the community.
what they are asking for in the nearly 12% raise.. at first glance this is crazy, yet if you think about it, this is just a shot at the government, and a bargaining chip. its in reference to when the Liberals locked them out and cut their pay by 10 per cent. in reality both sides have said they are actually close to an agreement on wage increase, showing that this really didnt mean as much as other things to BCTF
yet the main problem is with special needs, and class sizes. most schools had teacher assistants to help those with learning problems, who are specifically trained to assist special needs, unlike regular teachers. with class sizes being increased, and the budget cuts towards teaching assistants, it put teachers to a point where their days are becoming much longer. you add to the fact that the teacher has to create new curriculum for the increased classes( how many grades? could be 1-3 per class, or more) + special projects for the special needs children. the time required to check on, and help each kid is different, with a large percentage going to the ones who needs the most help, the special needs. you could be looking at the time your kid has with each teacher drastically dropped per day, thus creating a sub par education.
simply saying we have no funds does not fix the problem, and cutting more only makes it worse. if we are so worried about putting extra money into education to fix both class size, and special needs, why don't we worry more about the liberals yearly raises? or the raises garbage men get? there's more fuss put into the teachers situation, than any other, yet many people just think of these people as babysitters.

even though i would side with the teachers, in my opinion i have to say the difference in quality teachers from elementary to high school drastically drops

[Xplicit_EL]

^^^ I agree. You all don't know what teachers have to go through and put up with. My gf is a teacher and the amount of extra work they have to put in (without pay) is staggering. All you people ragging on teachers need to STFU until you have experienced it.

[Gumby]

Curious - is there anybody here who supports the teachers and isn't one of the following:

a) a parent
b) a teacher (or spouse/partner of a teacher)
c) good friends with a teacher

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Gumby

Curious - is there anybody here who supports the teachers and isn't one of the following:

a) a parent
b) a teacher (or spouse/partner of a teacher)
c) good friends with a teacher

Me. Only know a few people from high school who are teachers but we don't keep contact anymore.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by Xplicit_EL

^^^ I agree. You all don't know what teachers have to go through and put up with. My gf is a teacher and the amount of extra work they have to put in (without pay) is staggering. All you people ragging on teachers need to STFU until you have experienced it.

Yea cause shit, staying after work an hour here and there then having 3 months off is way harder than the guy working 12 hours trying to run a company, or a trade, or any sort of mangement position, etc etc.

Don't have kids, probably won't but if I do they'll be going to private school. Sure there are gems of teachers out there but I think the vast majority are mediocre and are there for the perks and pensions.

[Xplicit_EL]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Yea cause shit, staying after work an hour here and there then having 3 months off is way harder than the guy working 12 hours trying to run a company, or a trade, or any sort of mangement position, etc etc.

Don't have kids, probably won't but if I do they'll be going to private school. Sure there are gems of teachers out there but I think the vast majority are mediocre and are there for the perks and pensions.

I never said being a teacher was harder then any of the jobs you mentioned. I was pointing out the fact that you dumbasses underestimate the amount of work a public school teacher does unless you yourself have experienced it.

If u 'were' a teacher then I should shut up , but if you haven't experienced being one then who are you to comment on how hard the profession is??

what profession are you in anyways?

[MG1]

We are now comparing jobs........we have come full circle, again.

"Hey, I work just as hard, so why should they get xxxxxx." Yada, yada, yada...... Like I've said before, walk a mile in their shoes. Half you guys would not make it in that environment. As for the many who graduate to become teachers, most of them fail at it on their first day. Do you guys think the Universities prepare any of these people? Not even close. First day is an eye opener for these noobs. Many of my high school friends went into education only to be eaten alive.

Now if we are not discussing or comparing jobs, then let's get some facts out here (and I don't have all of them).

Both sides are full of fricken liars. Fassbender, Iker, and the media. Actually, the media's job is no longer to report the news but to distort it and get people all pissed off at each other. Talk shows, interviews, polls, you name it. Don't you just love polls? Today's poll question is........ then idiots chime in with all kinds of hate messages. Oh look how angry these people are! The media have turned this into a circus.

Will this thing be resolved? No. Unless a government is in jeopardy of losing an election they have nothing to lose.

BCTF is a stubborn bunch, also. They do not want the language of the contract changed or have to start all over again from scratch. They won twice. There's an appeal in progress. It ain't going away. Appeal after appeal after appeal. Government will not legislate teachers back. They are dead set on that one. Why? There's something fishy going on.

Lots of people are being affected, not just kids. Businesses that rely on schools being in session. Some of the newer teachers are financially up the creek. The government would love to bust the union. The union would love to have more teachers being hired......more union dues coming their way. Shit on both sides.

I mentioned the lying. The BCTF lied to their members about being locked out at lunch and recess. That came out not too long ago. The union also stated they were not that far apart....... um, yeah. Then there's the teachers making an average of xxxx.xx. Yeah, the average would be high, cause you included administrators. It isn't just teachers that make the education system work.

I'm just rattling things off here, but I put the blame squarely on the parents of this province. Not all, but a lot. Parents who have no idea how to be a parent. This problem would not be here if we didn't have children with issues. Abused, malnourished, neglected, FAS, etc. etc. etc. Raise your kids, not just make them someone else's problem. Stop being into yourselves and do what's right. You're the ones who brought them into this world. Take some responsibility.

Oh, private schools. Yeah, they don't ever have to deal with the losers of the world. Ask any private school teacher how their job is........ actually, comparing would not be fair. They have their own set of issues.

It was a much better system when each individual school district negotiated with their teachers. Local unions.

Should pimply faced, virgin boys be in a discussion, voicing their opinions on the topic of abortion? Apparently it's okay on RS. Doesn't matter if they've never dated a woman or been in a serious relationship. If they have a penis, they're good to go.

I'm sure we will continue to have replies with all kinds of fuck them, fuck you, fuck everyone else except me - my shit doesn't smell, call the kettle black, etc. posts.

Of course, everyone has an opinion................. shouldn't opinions be based on some facts or knowledge, experience on the subject?


god bless


My children have graduated from University......... now there's a great subject. Why can't we have profs at Universities we can all understand?


I expect a correction reply by godwin and a few "fuck you, fuck them, fuck everybody else" posts from 4444 along with a fail.

[MG1]

I want to know about the hidden agendas in this dispute.............

[Graeme S]

The Cost of Class Size and Composition | Ashley D. Mackenzie

On my phone or I'd copy and paste, but it's a good restatement of something I think I brought up awhile ago.