Temporary Foreign Workers Program Government suspended for restaurants

[godwin]

Vancouverites and Revsceners still want <$2 burgers

http://www.revscene.net/forums/59734...ml#post8461363

haha

[Berzerker]

Here in Smithers the mcdonalds owner has recently hired 3 TFW workers. This has caused a shitstorm with the current people who work there. Being a small town I know the owner and some employees. The old employees are pissed because the new workers are being offered the overtime hours. Reason for this is unknown but the kickback scenario comes to mind. Also he hired 3 workers from the same place. They all speak Nigerian and even though there is an "English only" policy on the floor there is a definite rift in the company now. It's a clique situation and the old workers are getting pissed off. I will add I know 3 people who quit there because the owner was not willing to reward long term employment with small raises and or more overtime. Word is he also looking at bringing in even more TFW workers even though I know for a fact local people would like to work there and have applied for work there.
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[kross9]

Finally food places that will speak English!

[godwin]

The other thing I think is it is not a fair playing field within the food industry too. The program intrinsically limits it to large corporations which can leverage the economy of scale, vs small mom and pop operations.

I think the gov infrastructure is cut back so badly, they can't really oversee the function of such program without issues not popping up.

[Sid Vicious]

in troubling times like this we must look to one of the smartest shows ever written for salvation

[Traum]

Originally Posted by pastarocket

Having said that, there are employers who have a legitimate need for foreign workers because there are a shortage of Canadians that have the education and experience needed for high skilled jobs.
Examples: geologists, civil engineers, senior executives in mining companies, visual effects artists, software developers, etc. have labour shortages across the country based on labour market data that the federal government staff and the public can view. It is called Labour Market Information (LMI).

Having some familiarity with the field, I am not at all convinced that Canada has a shortage of software developers. There is probably a severe shortage of software developers willing to work for <$40k/yr, but offering only those kinds of salaries is both an insult to the programmers and industry and some totally unrealistic expectations in the first place.

I am also not convinced that we have a shortage of visual effects artists in Vancouver and Toronto. I know a few people who work/worked in the animation industry and their common gripe is that there isn't enough work out there, and what work is available tend to be entirely contract-based, and usually only available over shorter terms. I suppose that's how the nature of the business is, in the sense that work is very much a come-and-go, per project type of thing. But to say that there is a shortage of these skilled workers seems very unconvincing to me.

[hypediss]

Originally Posted by Traum

Having some familiarity with the field, I am not at all convinced that Canada has a shortage of software developers. There is probably a severe shortage of software developers willing to work for <$40k/yr, but offering only those kinds of salaries is both an insult to the programmers and industry and some totally unrealistic expectations in the first place.

I am also not convinced that we have a shortage of visual effects artists in Vancouver and Toronto. I know a few people who work/worked in the animation industry and their common gripe is that there isn't enough work out there, and what work is available tend to be entirely contract-based, and usually only available over shorter terms. I suppose that's how the nature of the business is, in the sense that work is very much a come-and-go, per project type of thing. But to say that there is a shortage of these skilled workers seems very unconvincing to me.

14+ hours a day AND the weekends all for 40k?

NOTHXBYE time to go south

[godwin]

40k is way too low.. it was starting 50-60k for fresh grads just a few years ago.

Software development is such a mobile work force too vs plumbing, electrical etc. Granted it depends on case to case basis.

Originally Posted by Traum

Having some familiarity with the field, I am not at all convinced that Canada has a shortage of software developers. There is probably a severe shortage of software developers willing to work for <$40k/yr, but offering only those kinds of salaries is both an insult to the programmers and industry and some totally unrealistic expectations in the first place.

[godwin]

Most reputable places don't do 14+ hours a day, unless it is crunch time. The company is on the rocks if it do that constantly. Only badly managed companies do that.

Originally Posted by hypediss

14+ hours a day AND the weekends all for 40k?

NOTHXBYE time to go south

[iEatClams]

Originally Posted by godwin

The other thing I think is it is not a fair playing field within the food industry too. The program intrinsically limits it to large corporations which can leverage the economy of scale, vs small mom and pop operations.

I think the gov infrastructure is cut back so badly, they can't really oversee the function of such program without issues not popping up.

this was a huge concern for my pops, he's no longer in the business, but he remembers bidding for contracts and sees all these other super low bids and wonders, they must be using illegal immigrants or some sort.

It does give an unfair advantage and doesn't create an equal playing field.

[supremematt85]

Say good bye to chinese restaurants in Richmond
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[iEatClams]

It's also hypocritical for employers to say: that's how the free market works.if you don't do it, we'll hire the next guy lining up to do your job, but then complain when the other side of the coin does the same thing, if you don't pay us more, you wont be able to retain us as employees.

[godwin]

That is the SaveBCFilms all over again. i think the issue is both sides employer and employee have an incentive to make noises and they make noises just to get attention.

Originally Posted by Traum

I am also not convinced that we have a shortage of visual effects artists in Vancouver and Toronto. I know a few people who work/worked in the animation industry and their common gripe is that there isn't enough work out there, and what work is available tend to be entirely contract-based, and usually only available over shorter terms. I suppose that's how the nature of the business is, in the sense that work is very much a come-and-go, per project type of thing. But to say that there is a shortage of these skilled workers seems very unconvincing to me.

[stewie]

Originally Posted by pastarocket

Do people seriously think that Canadians, especially in an expensive city like Vancouver, would want to do hard physical labour on a farm planting and harvesting crops, or working in unsanitary conditions with cows for $12/hour??

im sure theres quite a few homeless people that would jump on that job in a heart beat. they'd get to stay at the farm, eat, have a bed, and earn some money at the same time. they'd be so far away from the other crack heads that they wouldn't have a chance to buy drugs while there (hopefully).

Here in Smithers the mcdonalds owner has recently hired 3 TFW workers. This has caused a shitstorm with the current people who work there. Being a small town I know the owner and some employees. The old employees are pissed because the new workers are being offered the overtime hours.

things like that are what makes me glad im in a union. shit like that doesn't fly. ive put in 10 years where i work, first few years id get maybe 1 OT job per 2-3 months...if that...now that im a lot higher up on the seniority rank, if someone below me was offered an OT job before i was, id flip shit and file a grievance. not to be a dick, but because we know whats right and whats fair, and we make damn sure it stays that way.

[godwin]

There are places eg Hope Farm on the island.

Unfortunately work without counselling support is pointless, not to mention you need the person to believe they need help in order for this to work. Most farms are just not equipped to do that. The problem with Vancouver especially DTES is homeless is a mix of mentally ill that will be better institutionalized and people who can't afford to live.. usually they are intertwined.

I highly recommend just seeing / volunteering at DTES to experience the situation. Yes there are homeless people who want to work at a farm, but if they can't even take their meds regularly, they can't show up on time and work.

Originally Posted by stewie

im sure theres quite a few homeless people that would jump on that job in a heart beat. they'd get to stay at the farm, eat, have a bed, and earn some money at the same time. they'd be so far away from the other crack heads that they wouldn't have a chance to buy drugs while there (hopefully).

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by godwin

40k is way too low.. it was starting 50-60k for fresh grads just a few years ago.

Software development is such a mobile work force too vs plumbing, electrical etc. Granted it depends on case to case basis.

LOL I made 42k + as a help desk support... 40k for a software development? In their dreams lol. Not enough people willing to work for low paying jobs? There are tons of ppl willing to work those jobs but of course they also want to be treated fairly such as getting paid with OT when there is OT, have breaks for meal. While Temp workers doesn't care a thing even if they made $5/hour because it is still a lot better than what they make.

Really there are no shortage of workers for food industry or service industry as a whole just the greedy business want to make more so they cut wages and benfits which only foreign is willing to take.

[FS1992EG]

wow!

[Timpo]

Originally Posted by pastarocket

Abusing workers can mean for example Tim Hortons franchise owner driving the foreign workers to their bank to ask
the to cash overtime cheques to pay that cash back
to the owner. Check out cbc.ca. The Timmy's owner got caught with this abuse on the foreigners.

Timpo, if you hire a foreigner to do a job, high skilled like a cook, senior mining exec, or low skill job like a hotel clerk, owner must pay the same average median wage paid to a Canadian for
that job. No lower wages.

In fact, employers must pay for airfare and help provide or find housing for
the foreign workers. It actually costs more to hire a foreign worker for low skilled jobs because of airfare to bring them into Canada.

So why do some employers like McD's give more work
shifts to foreign workers than Canadians? Do they work harder and are more reliable than Canadians?
That can be disputed. The McD's managers in Victoria franchises make
that argument for foreigners based on work
ethic and reliability.

Criminal investigations and prosecution for employers who intimidate foreign workers and do
other illegal things like take overtime pay in cash back from
foreigners are happening.


Who said that the government is just going after abusive employers?

If an immigration lawyer is illegally charging workers a fee for say $20,000 to
work in Canada, TFW program has staff who work with the RCMP to investigate these lawyers too.

Foreign workers can call anonymously
the TFW TIPS line to report employer and third party lawyer abuses of the program.
Just google Temporary Foreign Worker
Program to get more info.
A busy day at TFW. Sigh.
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ok thanks for the explanations, makes more sense now

Originally Posted by StylinRed

They CONS originally allowed employers to pay tfw's 15% less in wages but iirc when this matter began getting media attention Harper had removed this benefit starting 2014

But the issue isn't just with fast food joints they were/are doing it with mining they recently wanted to import a force of Chinese miners who didn't know anything and needed to be trained by locals who would get to keep their jobs until they trained these guys the company claimed a lack of miners available locally which was bs, luckily media attention and unions got involved

so they don't get that 15% off anymore? so I guess there really is no benefits if they wanna save some cash

[Timpo]

This is only my personal point of view.

If those business owners want to hire foreigners, just let them.
It may sound unfair or whatever, but Canadian business owners need hardworking employees too.

Kids nowadays in Canada and US, they don't even know what loyalty is.
They tend to slack off, expect employers to treat them like gold, etc.
I'm not saying they should work like a slave, but they definitely need to have more work ethics.

Even(most of) our generation, so called 'Generation Y' (Google it if you don't know) tend to quit their job so fast. You make a mistake, your boss yells at you, they would simply say "oh fuck this, I quit!"

If I was a business owner, I would rather have a hardworking foreigner than some Canadian or American kids who would come in late all the time, quite their job right away if anything happens, etc.

This is happening in Japan. It's actually becoming a huge problem. Larger Japanese companies, Honda, Sony, Japan Airlines, Toyota, Panasonic...you name them, they are hiring foreigners like crazy.
Many Japanese people are left with no choice but to find a job elsewhere, Thailand is one of the biggest destination.
Those Japanese corporations' reason was, they had to find someone who can speak at least 2 languages fluently, understand cultural differences, have experience in other countries, etc. They said that the decision was necessary to survive in this global business field.

[Carl Johnson]

Originally Posted by Timpo

This is only my personal point of view.

If those business owners want to hire foreigners, just let them.
It may sound unfair or whatever, but Canadian business owners need hardworking employees too.

Kids nowadays in Canada and US, they don't even know what loyalty is.
They tend to slack off, expect employers to treat them like gold, etc.
I'm not saying they should work like a slave, but they definitely need to have more work ethics.

Even(most of) our generation, so called 'Generation Y' (Google it if you don't know) tend to quit their job so fast. You make a mistake, your boss yells at you, they would simply say "oh fuck this, I quit!"

If I was a business owner, I would rather have a hardworking foreigner than some Canadian or American kids who would come in late all the time, quite their job right away if anything happens, etc.

This is happening in Japan. It's actually becoming a huge problem. Larger Japanese companies, Honda, Sony, Japan Airlines, Toyota, Panasonic...you name them, they are hiring foreigners like crazy.
Many Japanese people are left with no choice but to find a job elsewhere, Thailand is one of the biggest destination.
Those Japanese corporations' reason was, they had to find someone who can speak at least 2 languages fluently, understand cultural differences, have experience in other countries, etc. They said that the decision was necessary to survive in this global business field.

Bette to remain silent and be thought a fool than speak up and remove all doubt.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by Timpo

This is only my personal point of view.

If those business owners want to hire foreigners, just let them.
It may sound unfair or whatever, but Canadian business owners need hardworking employees too.

Kids nowadays in Canada and US, they don't even know what loyalty is.
They tend to slack off, expect employers to treat them like gold, etc.
I'm not saying they should work like a slave, but they definitely need to have more work ethics.

Even(most of) our generation, so called 'Generation Y' (Google it if you don't know) tend to quit their job so fast. You make a mistake, your boss yells at you, they would simply say "oh fuck this, I quit!"

If I was a business owner, I would rather have a hardworking foreigner than some Canadian or American kids who would come in late all the time, quite their job right away if anything happens, etc.

This is happening in Japan. It's actually becoming a huge problem. Larger Japanese companies, Honda, Sony, Japan Airlines, Toyota, Panasonic...you name them, they are hiring foreigners like crazy.
Many Japanese people are left with no choice but to find a job elsewhere, Thailand is one of the biggest destination.
Those Japanese corporations' reason was, they had to find someone who can speak at least 2 languages fluently, understand cultural differences, have experience in other countries, etc. They said that the decision was necessary to survive in this global business field.

Sure it might start off like that but if I could replace the lazy people with cheaper workers why not get rib of the hard working ones too because I can cut cost. See where that is heading. You allow one step and is over.

TFWG should only bring in high skill workers not someone making min wages. Even then there should be some sort of law stating a company can only have a certain % of TFWG in the company say max 5% at most to ensure Canadians get job first.

[ForbiddenX]

Originally Posted by hypediss

14+ hours a day AND the weekends all for 40k?

NOTHXBYE time to go south

Like someone said usually only during crunch time and when there are hard target dates you've got to meet. If you're working for EA Sports that means your summers since they release around Sept/Oct.

Seriously head to Silicon Valley though and work for a startup.

[KayC]

Originally Posted by hypediss

14+ hours a day AND the weekends all for 40k?

NOTHXBYE time to go south

I am an IT recruiter here in Vancouver and I have placed fresh grads in 50-55k perm jobs with only co-op experiences. Developers with 1-2 years experience can usually get around 60k+.
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[pastarocket]

Check this out. A map of greater vancouver businesses, the "bad guys", that hire temporary foreign workers.

Businesses Employing Temporary Foreign Workers | NTFW

Website mapping businesses using temporary foreign workers | News1130

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by pastarocket

Check this out. A map of greater vancouver businesses, the "bad guys", that hire temporary foreign workers.

Businesses Employing Temporary Foreign Workers | NTFW

Website mapping businesses using temporary foreign workers | News1130

Wonder is it mostly fast food places LOL