Mayors want mobility tax on drivers to fund $7.5B transit expansion

[Hehe]

I'm ok with government planning for public transportation. But they also need to be financially responsible for its people.

Translink current model is not working. They have an area too big to cover to make financial sense with their current planning.

Translink is basically getting used to asking money from taxpayers for whatever project it needs; regardless whether the project makes any sense at all. This is not how it should operate. They should at least be revenue neutral. If they can't figure a way out how such an expansion would ultimately bring enough revenue to cover itself (so it makes sense to invest now), then something is wrong with the planning. They should go back to the drawing board and start again.

I'm ok paying taxes to fund public projects, but I am not ok for them to spend on whatever they want without thinking it through first.

[Dennis R]

Wouldn't be surprised if this guy becomes the head of translink one day.

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by Hehe

I'm ok with government planning for public transportation. But they also need to be financially responsible for its people.

Translink current model is not working. They have an area too big to cover to make financial sense with their current planning.

Translink is basically getting used to asking money from taxpayers for whatever project it needs; regardless whether the project makes any sense at all. This is not how it should operate. They should at least be revenue neutral. If they can't figure a way out how such an expansion would ultimately bring enough revenue to cover itself (so it makes sense to invest now), then something is wrong with the planning. They should go back to the drawing board and start again.

I think Translink needs to get into real estate, or somehow be able to work with municipal governments to collect a share of the property tax revenue where high-density developing is taking place to fund transit expansions.

[CharlesInCharge]

Try tracking down the share holders/owners of Translink...

They consist of families like the Oppenheimer's that already have billion dollar enterprises in Canada in places like poverty stricken Attawapiskat First Nation traditional lands in which they extract diamonds.

"The Crown Corporation holds the title to world wide Crown land in Crown colonies like Canada, Australia and New Zealand."

"The Rothschild family, the Warburg family, the Oppenheimer family and the Schiff family. These families and their descendants run the Crown Corporation of London."

The Jesuit Vatican New World Order

[MarkyMark]

It must be nice to just hold your hand out whenever you need more money, especially when the people you're taking it from are already hurting enough.

[tonyzoomzoom]

they could care less that folks are hurting. Property owners are captive; drivers are largely captive. Life is good at Translink.

[melloman]

Honestly, I love this new "Mayors Council" having more power.

Lots of new people posting must not remember Translink proposing much less then this new plan, and asking for over 3 times more. (TransLink wants $23 billion to expand transit system | News1130)

The only thing I hate about this plan is mobility taxing drivers. I would settle on a 25/50c toll on EVERY BRIDGE in the GVRD. Fuck this $5 for Portmann, most likely $5 on the new Patullo, and another $5 when they make the new bridge to replace the Massey Tunnel.

Everyone can easily afford 25 or 50cents, and the volume of money that will come in from this will be exorbitant. Yet our mayors are all asking to get voted out, if they try to force a mobility tax on us.

[Gunsmokez]

Main reason for public transportation is for people who can not afford luxury methods of transportation. This was the main fundamentals of it from the very beginning. Of course, it has veered of this ideology a bit.

So, if you want to take transportation and privatize it. Now, what do you think will have to people who REALLY need that ride/free to work. Think Privatize corporations give a rats ass about people who can not pay fare?

Like others have said, privatization of transportation means huge cuts. Do you think companies want to run bus/skytrains during off peak times 9pm to 3am? Forgot which city but, was told of by someone where they were from buses stop running at 7pm!!! Because no money to be made after that! What about the people who RELY on buses to get them to work that second job at night in downtown, and they have to bus back to surrey cause they can not afford to live in Vancouver? How do they survive?

[Tone Loc]

Originally Posted by Gunsmokez

Like others have said, privatization of transportation means huge cuts. Do you think companies want to run bus/skytrains during off peak times 9pm to 3am? Forgot which city but, was told of by someone where they were from buses stop running at 7pm!!! Because no money to be made after that! What about the people who RELY on buses to get them to work that second job at night in downtown, and they have to bus back to surrey cause they can not afford to live in Vancouver? How do they survive?

Exactly this. While I agree with OP, that taxing motorists MORE than they already are being taxed is not fair, the privatization of public (keyword: public) transit would result in a bunch of routes/times being slashed.

IMO, gov't should be looking at the cyclists in this case... funny how I don't see the cost of bicycles taxed or even "insurance" for cyclists being pushed for in order to build bike lanes, yet Translink fares are being jacked up to screw over commuters as is the cost of gasoline for cars. It's kinda pathetic how our "Vision Vancouver" gov't is so in love with an idea of transport that is immensely impractical for a 9-5 person who has to wear a suit/tie/business attire to work as well as live in a city where it rains 6 months out of the year.... just my $0.02

[FS1992EG]

Why Tokyo's Privately Owned Rail Systems Work So Well - CityLab

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by FS1992EG

Why Tokyo's Privately Owned Rail Systems Work So Well - CityLab

Japan also has nearly 32x the population density as British Columbia, and is roughly 1/3 the size of this province as well. Private companies can work well and be competitive with one another in Japan because there's a much higher chance of a positive return with that sort of combination. In the GVRD, however... not so much.

[Lomac]

A couple of other thoughts...

There's been a giant uproar about the proposed mobility tax, but nowhere have I seen anything about what it involves or any other sort of information relevant to whether it's a good idea or not. Even taking a look through the Mayor's Council website yielded no information.

I think what should have been done when building all the new skytrain stations over the past few years was to create extra space that can be rented out to various companies (you can bet places like Starbucks or snack shops would make a killing) as a source of extra revenue. It wouldn't have even needed to be a big walk in store... just a small walk-up counter to order a coffee and slice of pizza, and you're done. Hell, I'm sure there are a few existing stations that can be easily retrofitted to allow for something like this.

[Nlkko]

You can search mobility pricing. There are lots of local dialogues happened/happening.

The so-called proposed "mobility tax" is a full on mobility pricing scheme (pay per distance travel/ road infrastructure usage). I think it would be a long time before such scheme can go live considering the massive public uproar that would go with it.

However, other scheme such as corridor pricing (taxing all bridges/connectors) to the GVRD or even a congestion charge for the City of Vancouver similar to London's can be expected in the near future. I said Vancouver because Vancouver's future transportation plan relies heavily on public transit, cycling and walking. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot less personal vehicle traffic in the city by 2020.

[melloman]

When they mentioned road tolls, they mentioned routes such as; Marine Way, Hastings St., HWY91.

I find this ridiculous, just for the fact that if they toll the bridges, you will legit pay a toll on the Alex Fraser, then pay more to travel along HWY91. Back to back tolling could be a real possibility.

Honestly I don't understand why tolling every bridge in the GVRD is so hard. I would only fear then, tolls increasing because Translink and the gov't get way too greedy, way too often.

[Everymans]

How would they even enforce road tolling? Will they track my car? or take a picture of my license plate when I go past a certain light? Seems like a great idea if you want to make this city more difficult to survive in. My car just broke down so I decided to start biking work. biking from richmond to downtown vancouver without transit is a friggen nightmare. 30 blocks of uphill. I miss carly already.

[yray]

^spend a few million installing cameras

[Mr.C]

I'd pay a Road Tax if Vancouver had an, oh, London-level of mass transit.

Otherwise, fuck off. I pay enough taxes as is.

[Timpo]

Originally Posted by Mr.C

I'd pay a Road Tax if Vancouver had an, oh, London-level of mass transit.

Otherwise, fuck off. I pay enough taxes as is.

yeah Vancouver's public transit absolutely sucks compare to real cities around the world.

[iEatClams]

I was at a planning conference one year and one of the speakers did mention that the bridges going into the City and the traffic that comes from all the bridges act as a barrier to entry into Vancouver. Without the bridges, there would be numerous more cars in Vancouver and traffic would be even worst. Not sure if planners want it to be like that or just happened by chance. My guess would be the latter.

[Yodamaster]

"The council wants the plan to be paid for through region-wide tolls and something it’s calling mobility pricing – a plan to charge motorists based on how far they drive."


No.

[Mr.HappySilp]

PST hike of 0.5% proposed for Metro Vancouver transit referendum - British Columbia - CBC News

Metro Vancouver residents could be asked to vote on a 0.5 per cent hike in B.C.'s Provincial Sales Tax to fund new transit projects, during a referendum next year.

The proposal was approved by the majority of Metro Vancouver mayors, who considered it the most affordable solution for the majority of residents, at a meeting in New Westminster on Thursday morning.

It passed by a count of 109 to 19, under the weighted voting system of the Metro Vancouver Mayors' Council. It was opposed by the mayors of Burnaby, West Vancouver and Maple Ridge.

Burnaby Mayor Derek Corrigan said the referendum is the wrong way to go, because it leaves many questions unanswered.

"How are we going to decide which line goes first?" he asked. "Will it be Vancouver with the new tunnel down Broadway or will it be a light rail line into Surrey? We never made that decision."
Alternative is 'traffic congestion, pollution'

Vancouver Mayor Gregor Robertson, who voted in support, said the alternative would be detrimental economically.

"There will be a lot more traffic congestion, pollution, sitting in traffic ... it's a costly thing for our economy," he said.

The proposed sales tax increase would apply only in Metro Vancouver and would cost the average household about $125 per year, officials estimate. The poorest families would pay an estimated $50 per year.

It is estimated the tax increase would raise $250 million per year to fund the mayors' plan to spend $7.5 billion on regional transit improvements over the next 10 years.

Among the projects under consideration are a new subway line along Broadway in Vancouver, a light rail line in Surrey, a new Pattullo Bridge and improved bus and SeaBus services.

The full question to be posed to residents will be: Do you support a one half percentage point increase to the Provincial Sales Tax in Metro Vancouver dedicated to the Mayors' Transportation and Transit plan, with independent audits and public reporting? Yes or No.

The question still requires the approval of the provincial government before it will officially go ahead to a referendum.

It would then go out to residents on a mail-in ballot in late March 2015, with a final voting deadline sometime in mid-April.

Take the poll: Do you support this proposed tax hike?
Do you support a 0.5% increase to the provincial sales tax to fund transit in Metro Vancouver?
I don't careYesNoI don't know
VoteView ResultsPolldaddy.com

TransLink's 'executive perks' criticized

The proposal was immediately criticized by Jordan Bateman of the Canadian Taxpayers' Federation, who said TransLink should instead focus on cutting wasteful spending.

"TransLink already takes 17 cents per litre on gas, five cents per litre of the federal government’s gas tax, ever-increasing property taxes, a 21 per cent parking tax and a levy on BC Hydro bills. Then they waste it on over-budget projects, executive perks, and dozens of other bad decisions," said Bateman.

"We’d all be better off if TransLink spent as much time and effort looking to save money and cut waste as it did dreaming up new tax grabs."

Bateman also called on the provincial government to prevent TransLink from spending taxpayers' money on any campaign to support the referendum.

"No taxpayer money should go to either side of the debate, and TransLink’s spending and advertising during the campaign should be vetted by the auditor general for local government for fairness."

Meanwhile Iain Black, CEO of the Vancouver Board of Trade, voiced his support for the proposed tax increase.

"Business people understand that there is a return when you make an investment and they will see this as an investment worth making," he said.

I rather translink cut some of their projects. We don't need a new railway system in Vancouver. What we need is to provide better service to the current service map and upgrade the current Skytrain system. After the 3 major outages we had this year, it wave reveal that we are still using floppy drives for the back system for the Skytrain.

An increase in tax will only force people to spend less, shop at the states. Just look at the carbon tax, the revenue for the carbon tax is on decline because more and more people are getting their gas down the states or decided to drive out less.

[freakshow]

i would be ok with the the tax increase if they updated our main sky train lines to support a convenient card/swipe system... oh.. wait..

[Tapioca]

If Translink could make cuts that wouldn't impact existing service levels, then the provincial audit would have identified them. The fact of the matter is that the provincial audit didn't find much that Translink could cut given existing service levels.

Sure, you could cut a few managers and maybe save a couple of million a year. Maybe you could bust the unionized drivers, get taken to court, and then lobby the government to amend the Labour code. And then what? To pay drivers a few bucks less per hour? Get rid of overtime? Or maybe Translink could fire their technical staff, and hire fresh grads for half the cost and assume that a steady stream of fresh grads are available to hire-fire for the next 10 years.

So, we should go ahead and vote down the half-percent increase so we can ask Translink to tighten its belt because after all, it's not that hard to do the above, right?

[belaud]

The transit in Japan & Hong Kong are far superior to Vancouver's, I actually enjoyed riding it when I was in Asia.

But you also must realize that those two cities had the subway's integrated into the city long before it became a necessity.

I think what should have been done when building all the new skytrain stations over the past few years was to create extra space that can be rented out to various companies (you can bet places like Starbucks or snack shops would make a killing) as a source of extra revenue. It wouldn't have even needed to be a big walk in store... just a small walk-up counter to order a coffee and slice of pizza, and you're done. Hell, I'm sure there are a few existing stations that can be easily retrofitted to allow for something like this.

This was why I enjoyed riding public transit in those countries, every stop had something in it for you to enjoy, be it a starbucks, 7-11, or a bakery, and multiple exits so you can get to your destination easier.
Our transit system is more of an after thought, just look at the sky train line going down No.3 Road, the bus lane in the middle lane took years to build, it stood for a year, and quickly got torn down for the sky train. We waste money like it's no tomorrow.

Another prime example is the compass system, it's so glitched out now they can't even roll it out, it seems to me they hired some incompetent integrators is all. The two aforementioned countries up top has 0 problems with their card system, tap in -> tap out, how hard can it get?

I'd pay a Road Tax if Vancouver had an, oh, London-level of mass transit.

Otherwise, fuck off. I pay enough taxes as is.

I would be all down for paying road fee's if they were properly maintained, but our roads are hard to drive in the rain, and my STI trams left/right like no tomorrow on the high way from the semi's indenting the asphalt.

I just don't understand why the people that use the transit system the least are the ones that get to pay the most.

just my two cents rant

[Hondaracer]

Add a fucking dollar to all the fares and take it from the people who actually use transit.

Translink is so incompetent there's no way in hell people are going to vote yes. It's not gonna be a vote for the tax, it's going to be a vote for translink in people's mind.