Negotiation on a new (demo) car

[AudiFreak]

Hi Revscene,

I would like to kindly ask everyone on their input on a vehicle I am looking to purchase. It is a 2013 Honda Accord 2dr. They are clearing out 2013 and soon 2014 models, though most 2013 vehicles are gone now.

MSRP: $40,000
Asking price: $33,888
Model: 2013 Honda Accord EX-L V6 NAVI with HFP Kit
- Vehicle warranty started in 2013
- Vehicle considered "new" by dealer(?) with 2,000km
- Driver's bottom side bolster already has wear (wrinkled AND sunken down, very disappointed)
- Shifting through gears is rough and notchy. Shift knob and boot seem to have been taken off previously
- NO 19" HFP wheels or Super Sport tires, comes with Enkei 18" Black Fujin wheels on BFGoodRich
- Was the manager's personal "demo" car

I have done some sniffing around and noticed that almost one full year ago, they were already clearing out 2013 Accord 2dr models and had $6,000 discounts off MSRP ($40k down to 34k), referring to post #17 in the following thread:
http://www.revscene.net/forums/68938...-coupe.html#17

Originally Posted by 68style

Last time I was at Richmond Honda they had a couple of white 2013 coupes with the HFP kit at a $6,000 discount off of MSRP I think... this was a couple months ago, but I doubt they moved and when my friend bought a Civic Si a month ago he said they were still there.

My questions:
1. Keeping in mind that one full year ago, a NEW 2013 HFP (with the HFP wheel/tires) was marked down to $34k. Is it reasonable to offer $33k, ask for the HFP wheel/tire package in place of the Enkei, extended warranty ($1400 value), all weather mats ($100 value), and oil changes for life ($699 value)?
2. Are they allowed to claim it is a new vehicle even though warranty has already started? Their website says "ODOMETER: 15" which is misleading and possibly false advertising?

Again, I thank you all for your honest input and advice.

Cheers,
AF

[LP700-4]

2013 Accord is most definitely not a new car anymore, especially a demo. Dealers should be selling 2015 cars by now no? They can say like new or whatever but definitely cannot claim it to be a new car.

Asking price 34k negotiated down to 33 is very reasonable, the options you listed tho cost a bit but it doesnt hurt to ask.

[tiger_handheld]

Please change username to HondaFreak to match post.

On topic: I would approach it as "I want the wheels/tires and mats and oil changes for life" .. Whats your price? and go from there..

[AudiFreak]

Originally Posted by LP700-4

2013 Accord is most definitely not a new car anymore, especially a demo. Dealers should be selling 2015 cars by now no? They can say like new or whatever but definitely cannot claim it to be a new car.

Asking price 34k negotiated down to 33 is very reasonable, the options you listed tho cost a bit but it doesnt hurt to ask.

Can this be used as leverage against them? Their website says it is a new vehicle with 15KM but has small fine print at the bottom saying information may not be accurate. It honestly does not bother me as much as the shifter being rough, physically appears to have been tampered with, and has driver seat wear consistent of a vehicle with 10x the current mileage.

Originally Posted by tiger_handheld

Please change username to HondaFreak to match post.

On topic: I would approach it as "I want the wheels/tires and mats and oil changes for life" .. Whats your price? and go from there..

I initially approached them with my cash offer, stating clearly I would not budge on that, and I wanted the HFP wheel/tire combo on top, all under the assumption and the vehicle had 15km and was new or like-new. After finding out it had 2000km and had more wear and tear than expected, I asked for an extended warranty and the oil changes.

[T4RAWR]

Originally Posted by AudiFreak

Can this be used as leverage against them? Their website says it is a new vehicle with 15KM but has small fine print at the bottom saying information may not be accurate. It honestly does not bother me as much as the shifter being rough, physically appears to have been tampered with, and has driver seat wear consistent of a vehicle with 10x the current mileage.



I initially approached them with my cash offer, stating clearly I would not budge on that, and I wanted the HFP wheel/tire combo on top, all under the assumption and the vehicle had 15km and was new or like-new. After finding out it had 2000km and had more wear and tear than expected, I asked for an extended warranty and the oil changes.

Spoiler!

[SoNaRWaVe]

Just straight up tell them. You think 33k as it is, is quite disappointing when the website said new and only 15km on it.

If you truly think at 33k and with the options you wanted makes it a deal for you, make sure you get all or walk out.

Or if you want to haggle, ask for your options at 33k, and once they say yes, then start negotiating again from there with your stated points. Tell them last year it was for 34k, it should be cheaper this year. Especially with 2015 models arriving fairly soon (if not already). If you're not in a rush, just walk out and find another deal.

The worse is they say no which you will just be back at square one so no loss for you. Unless that is just the absolutely dream car you are dying to get.

[c4@urdoor]

The most important piece of information missing from this thread.
Which dealer and who are you dealing with?

edit:Nevermind, poor reading comprehension on my part.
It is the Richmond Honda right?

I know Honda has really gone downhill as of late with their interior materials. The plastics and fabrics.
The older Hondas were very plain and ugly, but rather durable. Not the case anymore

[tofu1413]

one k off asking price for a demo is very reasonable, although after "accounting write backs" (factors in mileage, depreciation demo) the car should "stand them" around less than a grand. I think asking 1k off discount, along with all those things thrown in is a very far fetched deal, doesnt seem to sound reasonable.

end of the day, its up to sales manager to take the "loss" or not. Heres the thing you can just tell them straight up: 2014's have great incentives and decent finance programs and the 2015's arriving, you (as the buyer) is a great chance to move that almost 2 year old piece off the lot. They are there to move metal at the end of the day.

Im sure you can get the 1k off without too much of a problem, but as for the rest of the stuff thrown in, it is unreasonable.

Feel free to PM me, I could give you a few free pieces of advice directly since I am in the car sales industry and have had worked at a honda dealer.

[Gerbs]

Friend got a 200 km 2013 accord v6 fully loaded with Navi for 30700. There's 1 more left at open road honda

[AudiFreak]

Originally Posted by SoNaRWaVe

Just straight up tell them. You think 33k as it is, is quite disappointing when the website said new and only 15km on it.

If you truly think at 33k and with the options you wanted makes it a deal for you, make sure you get all or walk out.

Or if you want to haggle, ask for your options at 33k, and once they say yes, then start negotiating again from there with your stated points. Tell them last year it was for 34k, it should be cheaper this year. Especially with 2015 models arriving fairly soon (if not already). If you're not in a rush, just walk out and find another deal.

The worse is they say no which you will just be back at square one so no loss for you. Unless that is just the absolutely dream car you are dying to get.

How would I be able to prove they were selling them for $34k last year? I actually did mention that and the sales manager replied with something along the lines of "you appear to have done some research on forums, but I cannot agree nor disagree with you. As I said it all comes down to how much it will cost me".

I am in no hurry, but would like to find a vehicle before the end of the month ideally, since October will start to get quite busy for me.

Originally Posted by c4@urdoor

The most important piece of information missing from this thread.
Which dealer and who are you dealing with?

edit:Nevermind, poor reading comprehension on my part.
It is the Richmond Honda right?

I know Honda has really gone downhill as of late with their interior materials. The plastics and fabrics.
The older Hondas were very plain and ugly, but rather durable. Not the case anymore

I know their 2012 Civics were horrible in terms of interior quality and material, as well as excessive wind/road noise, but were vastly improved for 2013, and once again for 2014. I comment on the Accord, since I have never owned a newer mid-size classed vehicle.

Originally Posted by tofu1413

one k off asking price for a demo is very reasonable, although after "accounting write backs" (factors in mileage, depreciation demo) the car should "stand them" around less than a grand. I think asking 1k off discount, along with all those things thrown in is a very far fetched deal, doesnt seem to sound reasonable.

end of the day, its up to sales manager to take the "loss" or not. Heres the thing you can just tell them straight up: 2014's have great incentives and decent finance programs and the 2015's arriving, you (as the buyer) is a great chance to move that almost 2 year old piece off the lot. They are there to move metal at the end of the day.

Im sure you can get the 1k off without too much of a problem, but as for the rest of the stuff thrown in, it is unreasonable.

Feel free to PM me, I could give you a few free pieces of advice directly since I am in the car sales industry and have had worked at a honda dealer.

Thank you for offering more of your insight, tofu. What is deemed "unreasonable"? Do you think offering 34.5k would be more reasonable?

Originally Posted by Gerbs

Friend got a 200 km 2013 accord v6 fully loaded with Navi for 30700. There's 1 more left at open road honda

Hi Gerbs, I cannot find the vehicle you speak of on their website. Perhaps it has sold or they aren't advertising it on there?

Again, thank you to all those who have commented and yet to comment!

[Grim]

dont buy it.
you might as well buy a used accord at this point

[AudiFreak]

Originally Posted by Grim

dont buy it.
you might as well buy a used accord at this point

Well, I am not going to buy it if I don't get the price I want.

[BoostedBB6]

It is no considered a used vehicle as it has always been registered to the dealership and not a person. This is how they get away with calling it "new" as it have never been sold to anyone.

Common practice at dealers who can not sell a vehicle is to "demo" them out to managers or sales associates.

Regardless of what they can list the car as, it is used. The car is no in "as new" conditions seeing as new is in perfect off the delivery truck condition. With wear, non stock parts installed, issues with shifting etc the car is far from new.

I would not even bother buying a car like that as they all have rough histories with the dealer and often times have been driven poorly for there life while there.

[tofu1413]

The best demos are the fresh ones newly put for sale IMO. And I would really only buy one if I knew the sales guy / manager whom really knew the history behind that "demo". (Test drive, manager or service loaner demos etc)

[LP700-4]

Originally Posted by AudiFreak

Thank you for offering more of your insight, tofu. What is deemed "unreasonable"? Do you think offering 34.5k would be more reasonable?

The extras that you are asking for cost a good amount. HFP wheels from dealer probably costs 2 or close to 3k. 1400 for extended warranty along with ur oil change package in total is gonna set them back another 4k. If your offer is tax in then I doubt they can get that done.

[Euro7r]

I wouldn't even bother buying it, even if they gave me a good "price" or deal on it. Demo cars are driven the crap out of. It's like going to a test drive, are you really going to keep the rev's under 4000rpm for new car break in.

[320icar]

I would so walk away. Who drops 34k on a car with worn seats, a notchy shifter, an unknown history and non-oem wheels?

No brainer

[meme405]

Originally Posted by BoostedBB6

It is no considered a used vehicle as it has always been registered to the dealership and not a person. This is how they get away with calling it "new" as it have never been sold to anyone.

Thank you. Someone with some sort of understanding.

Dealers can rack up, up to 12000km, on a car, and it can still be sold as new. Anything above that km, and it doesn't matter if the car has not been registered to anyone else, the car is still (in the eyes of the law) used.

The reason the seat is likely so damn worn is because it sat on the lot for so damn long with tons of people sliding in and out of the car. It's also entirely possible (given the relatively low km, for a 2 year old demo), that this particular car sat in their showroom. Again the damage to the interior (and shifter) seems consistent with some stupid person letting their kids play in the cars while they talk with sales staff.

[KDMofo]

2000km of sort trips, aggressive driving and constant vtec. Basically buying a racecar.

[Gerbs]

Call and ask show room car

[AudiFreak]

Originally Posted by LP700-4

The extras that you are asking for cost a good amount. HFP wheels from dealer probably costs 2 or close to 3k. 1400 for extended warranty along with ur oil change package in total is gonna set them back another 4k. If your offer is tax in then I doubt they can get that done.

I am asking for that before tax. Is that reasonable? I was specifically looking for a vehicle with a factory add on package such as the HFP, A-Spec, M Sport, S-Line, etc. But could not find a 2013 and up with those packages under 35k before tax. With that being said, I was only considering this deal if the dealership wanted to move it badly and would be lenient on incentives. Seems like they aren't too eager to move an overpriced beaten on demo.

Originally Posted by Euro7r

I wouldn't even bother buying it, even if they gave me a good "price" or deal on it. Demo cars are driven the crap out of. It's like going to a test drive, are you really going to keep the rev's under 4000rpm for new car break in.

I have heard mixed opinions on vehicle break in periods, some saying you do not require them on modern day cars. Also, some say the shifter should be rough due to synchros breaking in. Anyone have experience on this topic?

Thank you all again.

[Lowered_Klass]

If it were me, and my money...

Spoiler!

[SoNaRWaVe]

Originally Posted by AudiFreak

I am asking for that before tax. Is that reasonable? I was specifically looking for a vehicle with a factory add on package such as the HFP, A-Spec, M Sport, S-Line, etc. But could not find a 2013 and up with those packages under 35k before tax. With that being said, I was only considering this deal if the dealership wanted to move it badly and would be lenient on incentives. Seems like they aren't too eager to move an overpriced beaten on demo.

What is reasonable to you? You need to personally have a number in mine.

How you negotiate with the manager/sales rep is up to you. There are several tactics. You can say "this is what i think its worth in its current state" and move from there. Or you can say "i want this and that, what is your price" and then move from that.

Personally with all that wear and tear, i would personally not buy it. As with the rough shifting, you can always ask them to repair it, test drive it again, then proceed from there.

Originally Posted by AudiFreak

How would I be able to prove they were selling them for $34k last year? I actually did mention that and the sales manager replied with something along the lines of "you appear to have done some research on forums, but I cannot agree nor disagree with you. As I said it all comes down to how much it will cost me".

As for how you can prove it was $34k last year, you will probably need the ad or look at some craigslist listing and bring it in so that they see what the car is really worth.

if they are really motivated to get rid of the car, they will work with you unless the price is really unreasonable. Remember, if the car is in their room, they are losing money. They will want to sell it, but still make money off it. You and them will need to find a sweet spot.

You just need to patient and don't let the excitement/eager to get a new car make stupid decisions.