E90 M3 Sedan - Should I do it?

[LP700-4]

Originally Posted by jmanhas

I can't say for the E90, but the E46 is just a totally different experience.
I sold my e46 m3 2 years ago, and I just picked up my second one. Although on paper the E46 is noticeably slower, it doesn't feel that way when you drive it. The exhaust note is intoxicating, and the feeling of being connected to the road cannot be replicated, even in the E9X M3 in my opinion. I'm not going to say which car is better for you, but I can say that the E46 is definitely more raw in terms of performance and road feel. If you do decide to get the E90, I would personally wait until the perfect one comes around (local canadian/bc car, fully loaded with nav, the colour that you want as well) since you said you'd really miss the tech in your TL-S.

Theres just something so special about E46 M3s right? I mean you've only bought 2 lol. Ive only driven one once and nothing else has been able to replicate or beat that experience. The E90 feels more like a muscle car for some reason, straight line the torque is brutal.

Originally Posted by TouringTeg

E46 M3 just posted in CL thread:
2003 BMW M3

I dont want some beat up 200k M3 either tho. I want one thats 2003+ and under 100k kms with a 6 speed. Ive been looking almost every day on CL and to this day none of them match my criteria.

Originally Posted by Amaru

Apologies if this has already been asked in the thread, but why not an e92 335i? I am biased because I own a 2009, but it's around the same as the e46 m3 in terms of straight-line performance, and cost of ownership should be a bit lower than with an M3 (of any gen). You also get the more modern styling... Not to mention the fact that $5k in simple ecu and bolt-on mods will put you in the 450bhp range.

I recently bought my '09 335 coupe -- local, no accidents, 6spd, 62,000kms -- for $22k. Definitely better value than an e46 m3 IMO, as long as you don't mind going forced induction (and the lag is almost imperceptible, at least in the twin turbo N54).

I actually personally prefer FI for a daily driver, since you can use the power more often (and without waking up every one in the neighbourhood revving to 8500rpm).

I actually drove a 2012 335i sedan 6MT a couple days ago, the car is fantastic when it comes to power but it doesnt feel as balanced and handle as well as any of the M cars.

Call me picky but im not too interested in any BMW that doesnt have an M on it. Go M or go home is my mentality right now.

[bomiheko]

You can upgrade the suspension to Kw V3 and add M sway bars and it'll handle much better than the M3. A sweet thing about the 335i is the tunability and mods. A cheap $400 JB4 chip boosts the car up 80hp. Add in intercooler, intake, downpipes and exhaust, you get almost 430hp with just over $2k in mods. The 335i I'm driving outruns so many cars, they always have a shock to their face because I kept the outside appearance quite stock. I wish I had a M badge though, but if I were to get a M car, it'll have to be a E92 M3 or E39, F10 M5, but I'm totally satisfied with this 335i. Puts down way more torque than the E92 M3.

[westopher]

No LSD in a 335i though is there?

[jasonturbo]

Hmmm I repeatedly considered buying an E90 M3.. never could pull the trigger though.

Compared to my E46 M they were just missing something, sure the V8 has a certain unique "urgency" to it, but something about the car just didn't' feel right to me.

Having said that, it's still a lovely car - though I do believe the E series cars have the fastest wearing interior BMW has ever made, to me this is a major con.

Now having driven the F80 M3, I wouldn't for a second consider the E90, the F80 is just amazing, a real step forward even with the slightly dull engine note… I came very close to leasing one over the GTI but would have felt sad seeing what the Alberta winter did to it.

335i… does not compare to an M car IMO, totally different driving experience. That's not to say the 335i isn't a good car, but the trend is for 335i owners to graduate to an M3, not the other way around.

[TOPEC]

dudeee, OP is looking for a M3, not a 335 LOL, so stop telling him to get a 335 n throw money into it to make it better than a M3. for all we know, OP aint gonna mod his M3 so what makes u think he'll mod a 335?

no one with a M3 will wish they had gotten a 335 instead

[westopher]

I think, if the OP wants a REPLACEMENT for his car, an e90 is the best choice. If he wants something less practical and more fun, an e46 is the best option, and if he wants something to add to his driveway and keep the TL as a daily an e36 M3 would be the best choice.

[Amaru]

Originally Posted by jmanhas

335i is definitely fast, and torquey. But when it comes to performance, its not just about horsepower. The 335 feels like a regular 3 series, with twin turbos thrown on top to improve its "performance". The E46 M3 was specifically made to be driven as a raw sports car. Perhaps i'm a bit biased, but I personally feel the E46 M3 has a much more timeless look, probably due to the fact that the 3series is as common as a honda civic in Richmond. You'd be getting a lot more car for the money compared to the 335i. But if its luxury/technology that concerns you more, then the E9X 335i is probably a better car for you.

I've considered the 335i as well, which allowed me to see the pros and cons for both cars. When i was looking for a car, my main concern was about the driving experience. After having driven both and comparing them side by side, it was a no brainer for me. (I'm not using my car as a daily, but just a summer car)

Agreed on all points.

If you're simply looking for the best driving experience, e46 M3 is a no brainer.

If you're looking for a practical daily driver that is a blast to drive, the e92 335 is probably a better overall buy.

Originally Posted by LP700-4

I actually drove a 2012 335i sedan 6MT a couple days ago, the car is fantastic when it comes to power but it doesnt feel as balanced and handle as well as any of the M cars.

Call me picky but im not too interested in any BMW that doesnt have an M on it. Go M or go home is my mentality right now.

No, non-M BMW's are obviously not tuned for track performance. With mods, you can easily achieve similar track performance numbers, but an M will always be a much more pure-bred performance car.

For most people (myself included), the comfort, practicality, and cost of ownership benefits make the 335 a more appealing alternative.

If you're into the prestige of owning an M, or if you simply want the best driving experience out of the box, then I would think both e46 and e92 m3's would work nicely.

Anyway, sounds like you know what you want. Good luck in the hunt!

Originally Posted by TOPEC

dudeee, OP is looking for a M3, not a 335 LOL, so stop telling him to get a 335 n throw money into it to make it better than a M3. for all we know, OP aint gonna mod his M3 so what makes u think he'll mod a 335?

Well, for starters, the S54 motor in the e46 M3 has far more limited potential in terms of bolt-on mods.... it's a better package out of the box by far, but the 335 offers excellent bang-for-buck value. Dump $5k into a 335 and you'll destroy e46 M3's on the track.

Also... relax. We're trying to offer the OP helpful suggestions because the 335i is valid, comparable car. It's obviously not the car he's looking for, but we're simply trying to help the dude by making a suggestion.

Originally Posted by TOPEC

no one with a M3 will wish they had gotten a 335 instead

Haha. You're not a BMW owner, are you?

Lots of e46 m3 owners wish they had a 335... hell, I know at least one personally. There are lots of dudes on Bimmer forums that have dumped their M3's in favour of 335's. It's a newer car that's just as fast in a straight line, but with more modern styling, more comfort/technology, better potential for modifying, and most likely lower cost of ownership.

Don't get me wrong, in stock form and in terms of pure driving enjoyment, both e46 and e9X M3's are superior to any non-M 3-series. But there is plenty of reason for someone looking at e46 M3's to also consider an e9X 335. If it's not the OP's cup of tea, that's cool, to each their own... but let's not get carried away and suggest that no-one would ever want to 'downgrade'.

[westopher]

I think topec was referring to swapping between m cars to non m cars from corresponding generations.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Amaru

Well, for starters, the S54 motor in the e46 M3 has far more limited potential in terms of bolt-on mods.... it's a better package out of the box by far, but the 335 offers excellent bang-for-buck value. Dump $5k into a 335 and you'll destroy e46 M3's on the track.

The N54 and N55 in the 335i / 135i is a phenomenal engine, but only in street use. When taken to the track, the sustained stress induced by track use has a much higher chance of causing stuff to break in the N54 and N55 than in the e46's S54.

I would advise against hardcore flogging of a 335i on the track. It doesn't mean you can't take the car out to enjoy it at the track. Just don't flog it, and don't beat the crap out of it trying to squeeze every last drop of performance it has. You don't want to head home on limp mode or on the back of a tow truck.

[TOPEC]

Originally Posted by Amaru

Lots of e46 m3 owners wish they had a 335... but let's not get carried away and suggest that no-one would ever want to 'downgrade'.

i was strictly talking about a e9X m3 to a e9X 335... no one with a e9x M3 will wish they had gotten a e9X 335 instead

Originally Posted by Amaru

Well, for starters, the S54 motor in the e46 M3 has far more limited potential in terms of bolt-on mods.... it's a better package out of the box by far, but the 335 offers excellent bang-for-buck value. Dump $5k into a 335 and you'll destroy e46 M3's on the track.

dump $5k into what? a big turbo setup so u can out run a m3 in a straight line n cant turn for shit? or into a nice set of coilovers along with some bushings only to have the torque of the turbo motor end up burning out the inside tires in corners because of the open rear diff? what about the other issues that the n54/n55 platform face? the turbo motor does not take heat well, bmw themselves added external oil coolers for their "factory tune" n ppl r finding even with the external oil cooler added, its still inadequate on the track... n this is all with stock hardware. then theres the direct injection issue with carbon build up...

he already made it clear hes not interested in non m cars, so stop trying to shove it down his throat about a 335's "potential" to beat a e46 M3 when OP was looking at a e9X M3

Originally Posted by Amaru

Haha. You're not a BMW owner, are you?

y yes i do have a 335 as a daily, thank you for asking

[jmanhas]

Originally Posted by LP700-4

Theres just something so special about E46 M3s right? I mean you've only bought 2 lol. Ive only driven one once and nothing else has been able to replicate or beat that experience. The E90 feels more like a muscle car for some reason, straight line the torque is brutal.

Since i sold my old M3, I've went through multiple cars trying to chase that same connectedness and road feel i experienced with the M.
I got a 2010 TL SH-AWD 6 speed (clutch was so soft, it felt like i was playing battle gear, but super comfy and techy on the inside), Integra Type R (Raw as hell, slightly uncomfortable due to harsh suspension and JDM recaros), FX35 (kinda random but comfy. I always liked that car), E55 AMG (Childhood dream car with endless amount of torque and intoxicating exhaust note), then back to the E46 M3.

All cars had its perks and they were all fun to own. But at the end of the day, i still ended up back in another E46 M3! I do miss my old laguna seca blue though..

[gripenM]

am I the only one who thinks the E46 M3 is a good car but not a Great car?

it handles likes a truck compared to the E36, I would even say the E9x M3 feels sharper than the E46.

also E46 interior quality is not as great as the E36 either.
Just take a look at the E46 door handles and watch the door seals for peeling and hanging down.
the S54 is a good engine though
overall, the E46 M3 is the only gen I would skip out on

as for the 335i vs M3 argument, once you go M, you'll never look at a regular series car again.

[westopher]

You know how to make a man feel good about his e36. Truthfully after driving both the e46 and e36 though I really enjoy my e36 more. It feels so much smaller. The e46 really is a better car though. Its a LOT faster.

[jmanhas]

I've always wanted to compare the E46 M3 to the E36 M3, i wonder how much more raw the E36 would feel

[westopher]

This summer we can swap for a drive if you want.

[prolepsis]

If you really want an E46 M3 instead of an E9x M3, my suggestion is that you pass on the E90 M3 and wait for the right E46 M3; otherwise, you may always wonder or still want an E46 M3. (Based on what you've written in this thread, looks like you're planning on passing on this E90 M3.)

Having said that, I've always really liked the E9x M3s and always wanted one, but I'm also coming from an E39 M5, so I'm okayish with the overall heavier weight of the E9x versus E46.

I've owned my E92 M3 stick shift for a little over a year now and it's a great all-around car.

For me, I find the E9x compares more to an E39 than E46, based on the larger size of the E9x generation. E39's engine has more low end torque, but the E9x's engine revs higher and faster, and feels more frantic.

In owning M cars, as others have said on this thread, you'll want to budget some extra funds for anything that pops up unexpectedly, even if you're on top of things for regular maintenance. Maintenance costs and parts costs are higher.

I come from a Honda family as well, so the difference in maintenance is definitely noticeable. There is a noticeable difference in driving feel between the two companies, as I've driven a number of Hondas and BMWs.

Good luck with your search!

[ah gon]

I'm on the same boat.the one u r intetested is in grey color?

[The_AK]

All this talk of 335i, my only gripe would be cost of owning a turbo car. Anyone know how e46 m3 vs 335i vs e90 m3 are in terms of engine reliability? My friend former owner of 335i (now owns an e90 m3) had some electronics issues when it came to his turbos but dont remember what it was exactly.

[bomiheko]

Originally Posted by The_AK

All this talk of 335i, my only gripe would be cost of owning a turbo car. Anyone know how e46 m3 vs 335i vs e90 m3 are in terms of engine reliability? My friend former owner of 335i (now owns an e90 m3) had some electronics issues when it came to his turbos but dont remember what it was exactly.

The 335i I'm driving has been relatively reliable. Only thing we had to change was the VANOS selenoids. The turbo problem you mentioned is probably the wastegate rattle. If the car was under warranty, it can be replaced. Sometimes they give you new turbos as well. But its not a problem that decreases performance or reliability, just the sound of it is annoying. I've been driving this car for 5 years now and want a change so looking for a m3 or s5. Put 100k kms on it and never had any major problems. I have already put aside some money for the water pump that's gonna fail anytime soon.

[jmanhas]

I've had a few friends who owned the E92 335i's and majority of them had the issues with their fuel pumps, bringing it to the dealership multiple times during their years of ownership. Out of all of them, only one has the 335i left. After asking them, their only recommendation was to stay far away, especially the first year production 335i (2007)

[Tapioca]

^ A neighbour of mine has a 335i and it seems like his loaners are parked in his spot more often than his car.

Another thing to consider is that the DIY community is very active on the E46 compared to the E9x. Once you have a problem, you're more likely to find the cause online so you can either fix it yourself, or at least tell your specialist what the problem is and not end up on a wild goose chase to fix it.

[The_AK]

Originally Posted by Tapioca

^ A neighbour of mine has a 335i and it seems like his loaners are parked in his spot more often than his car.

Another thing to consider is that the DIY community is very active on the E46 compared to the E9x. Once you have a problem, you're more likely to find the cause online so you can either fix it yourself, or at least tell your specialist what the problem is and not end up on a wild goose chase to fix it.

Thanks for feedback guys. I would agree on this part as a 330ci owner, e46 M3 seems more appropriate for the diy enthusiast. Not sure how many guys turn wrenches on their e90s.

[j3welz]

I've owned both the 335i with FBO mods and switched to an E92 M3 about 2 years ago. Honestly, I've had pretty much every single thing go wrong with the 335i (turbos replaced, fuel injectors, vanos solenoid, multiple hpfps). Thank god I had an extended 3rd party warranty that covered me, but wisely got rid of it when that ended and got myself into an M3.

So far, the only things that's gone wrong on me in 40k is a seized caliper and a slow DCT transmission leak, both repaired under CPO warranty. The maintenance costs aren't so bad if you have work performed by an indy and you supply your own parts. I'd estimate about an avg of $1,500/yr including tires factored in. Although, the M3 is not without issue, there seems to be a possible rod bearing clearance problem affecting a small % of engines. Knock on wood this doesn't happen to me, but I'll probably be replacing them when I get to 100k.

Blown motors, Bearing failure S65 Registry.

As for the driving experience, there really is no comparison. Revving that V8 past 8000rpm is something that can't be described in words. It's funny because I remember the first time test driving it, it felt very lackluster as I couldn't rev it past 5000 due to the short test drive.

[The_AK]

^Steven that you? lol

[TOPEC]

Originally Posted by j3welz

I've owned both the 335i with FBO mods and switched to an E92 M3 about 2 years ago. Honestly, I've had pretty much every single thing go wrong with the 335i (turbos replaced, fuel injectors, vanos solenoid, multiple hpfps). Thank god I had an extended 3rd party warranty that covered me, but wisely got rid of it when that ended and got myself into an M3.

So far, the only things that's gone wrong on me in 40k is a seized caliper and a slow DCT transmission leak, both repaired under CPO warranty. The maintenance costs aren't so bad if you have work performed by an indy and you supply your own parts. I'd estimate about an avg of $1,500/yr including tires factored in. Although, the M3 is not without issue, there seems to be a possible rod bearing clearance problem affecting a small % of engines. Knock on wood this doesn't happen to me, but I'll probably be replacing them when I get to 100k.

Blown motors, Bearing failure S65 Registry.

As for the driving experience, there really is no comparison. Revving that V8 past 8000rpm is something that can't be described in words. It's funny because I remember the first time test driving it, it felt very lackluster as I couldn't rev it past 5000 due to the short test drive.

seems like the most common issue with the M3 is the bearing failure affecting early release, and also the DCT transmission leak as well. mine was seeping oil n the pan/gasket was replaced under warranty.