PST hike of 0.5% proposed for Metro Vancouver transit referendum

[Tone Loc]

Originally Posted by inv4zn

Because there is always the lesser of two evils.

And anyway, you're right - you don't have to vote. But it's my opinion, and of many others, that if you don't vote, you forfeit your privilege of complaining.

This. If you don't want to vote for whatever reason - notwithstanding that most people I know who proudly declare that they don't vote are uninformed imbeciles - you don't necessarily HAVE to.

...But that just means you forfeit your right to bitch, complain, or even rejoice about the outcome when the dust settles.

[meme405]

Originally Posted by carisear

I am against popular opinion on this. Living in the 'free world' it's your choice to not vote if you don't want to.

If you don't believe any of the options are viable to you, why would you vote for something you don't believe in?

Like inv4zn said, usually one option is better than the other.

Truth is if you don't care, fine don't vote. But understand that you are forfeiting your right to open your mouth about how the people who voted for A instead of B are stupid, and how they really fucked us.

Like so many of those dumb americans who complained about George Bush, yet 60% of the population didn't vote.

Spoiler!

Electoral college is fucked in the US anyway, but still, if you didn't vote, it's your own fault.

EDIT: I got beat to it.

[carisear]

Lets blow this stupidly out of proportion. Lets say 1 party's platform was to "kill all Asians" and the next party's platform was to "kill all whites". I wouldn't want either. To me there is no 'lesser evil'.

Taken to a more realistic level, lets say one platform was to allow fracking, and the others was to raise taxes 20%. I can see how some people wouldn't want either.


(btw i'm just playing devils advocate here. ever since I turned 18 I've voted in every election -- municipal, provincial, federal, plebiscite, even organizational elections. )

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by carisear

Lets blow this stupidly out of proportion. Lets say 1 party's platform was to "kill all Asians" and the next party's platform was to "kill all whites". I wouldn't want either. To me there is no 'lesser evil'.

Taken to a more realistic level, lets say one platform was to allow fracking, and the others was to raise taxes 20%. I can see how some people wouldn't want either.


(btw i'm just playing devils advocate here. ever since I turned 18 I've voted in every election -- municipal, provincial, federal, plebiscite, even organizational elections. )

That's not stupidly out of proportion, that's just stupid.

And if one party were to allow fracking, they'd also invest in certain industries, etc.. While the other party, while raising 20% taxes, would take that money and improve other things, etc.

And the informed voter (of which there are little, admittedly) would weigh the pros and cons, find the party whose interest best align with their own, and go vote.

It is the uninformed asshats - who are ALWAYS vocal when it comes to bitching, and then they proudly declare "That's why I didn't vote!".

Generally I'm a nice guy to those around me - but this just grinds my gears. Fuck you and your complaining if you didn't take the 30 minutes to mildly inform yourself and take part in a communal part of the society you live in.

(And yes, just as you're playing devil's advocate, I'm continuing this for the sake of debate - and the hopes that if there is one person on here who is like the asshat mentioned above, you see the error in your ways and go fucking vote.)

[meme405]

Bruhhhhhhh. I got too excited and I ticked the "NO" box too aggressively. My ballot ripped. How do I get another one?

Spoiler!

[Traum]

Not sure if the interview video has been posted or not, but here it is. Watch it for yourself.

Transit plebiscite: West Vancouver mayor opposes tax | Watch News Videos Online

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

the mayor of west van who is an adament NO was just on that Jill krop news show with Randene, he brought up a bunch of great points, wish i could have a link but i'll try to summarize

A) The "mayors council" who is apparently behind the suggestions and decisions regarding the translink approach and projects within their given cities has not met with the translink board in over 3 years. He said he has never seen documentation nor video of the meetings and what takes place there.

B) throughout Canada, translink already has the best funding system in this entire nation according to him. Housing tax, gas levi's, public and private interest groups, he said that almost none of the major transportation systems in Canada rely on such a steady income. He said that in west van [although not surpsing] each resident pays a $800 housing tax that goes directly to translink.

C) he again pointed out, which is pretty obvious to most, that even with jimmy P's appointment with his "overseeing comitee" not once have they actually come out and gave a sniff of what the plans are, or how the money is to be used.

also a whole bunch of other stuff regarding there being a MP from kelowna and one from Vernon on the board of directors, etc. etc.

let alone all the prior incompetence shown by this organization lol.. jesus

[Alby]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

arent they gonna build a broadway line?

so if we vote yes, that means everyone else outside vancouver has to pay for it as well right?

isn't that a good thing (for the people of vancouver lol).


I think this is just their way of asking "can we get your money this way?"
and if we vote no, they're just gonna take it another way.

They're gonna get their money no matter what. No question about it.

+1.

if this doesn't go through, whats next? increase property tax? increase gas prices? im pretty sure a lot of options to reap your money was on the table. they probably picked what they thought most people are willing to pay the increase to.

[EmperorIS]

so are we voting yes or no ?

[tiger_handheld]

Originally Posted by EmperorIS

so are we voting yes or no ?

no

[Tone Loc]

Originally Posted by EmperorIS

so are we voting yes or no ?

IMO it comes down to whether you trust Translink to properly manage the money.

I think I speak for all of us when I say that I want improved road infrastructure, decreased congestion, and expansion of public transit (one less car for every new rider!)... but personally I don't trust Translink at all. Look at the Compass Card system, the fact that they still don't run trains 24 hours on weekends only (would cut down on a lot of drunk driving!), and how nearly every single new expansion is met with delays.

And because I know Mayor Moonbeam, with his love for bike lanes that are used by a very tiny fraction of all commuters (pedestrians, cars, transit users combine), will somehow use his city's "cut" of the funding to push his stupid agendas. Sorry to break it to all the hippies out there, for a significant part of the population it just don't make sense to invest in cycling when it rains so much AND the Lower Mainland is quite hilly, if they focused on the "public transit expansion" part of the program maybe I'd be okay with it. But we don't need more road space that buses or cars could be using wasted on empty lanes!

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Traum

Not sure if the interview video has been posted or not, but here it is. Watch it for yourself.

Transit plebiscite: West Vancouver mayor opposes tax | Watch News Videos Online

He pretty much affirms that the province is the problem with Translink, not Translink itself. The mayors didn't want the board of directors, they didn't want a MLA from Kamloops (Todd Stone) and a MLA from Kelowna (Christie Clark) calling the shots.

That said, a no vote just plays into the hands of the province. They created the mess and they want this vote to fail so they can blame someone else and keep building money losing bridges.

[Yodamaster]

Originally Posted by 6o4__boi

because it's your civic duty to participate in democracy
yeah that's sounds cheesy but i'm sick of pretentious assholes in my social environment who ramble on about not voting and/or spoiling their ballot like they're some kind of fucking know-it-all hero. What, are you above the process of voting?

That's just my opinion on that. Maybe there are the odd one or two individuals who actually know what they're doing when they choose not to vote but a clear majority are motherfucking moronic imbeciles who think they're "better" than everyone else with their fucking utopian ideals.

I came close to voting, but the party I was in favour of is completely against one of my more important interests. I would have voted if it weren't for that one thing, because I really did believe that they are better than the other parties. The one party that does support my interest sucks dick in everything else.

I'm not willing to lose that interest, or have it deminished, but I can't bring myself to vote for the country ruiners. So that's the story of why I didn't vote.

In terms of the translink debate, I didn't get the ballot in the mail, and the people at the skytrain stations only serve the yes side, so IDK what to do.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Traum

Not sure if the interview video has been posted or not, but here it is. Watch it for yourself.

Transit plebiscite: West Vancouver mayor opposes tax | Watch News Videos Online

Here's the amount of property taxes that go to Translink per city:

https://infogr.am/translink_property...y_municipality

Considering the gap between West Van and the other cities I'd consider what he's saying to be bomb throwing. He should have said that West Van home owners disproportionately contribute via property taxes to Translink (which they sure seem to). The rest of us don't pay that much.

[multicartual]

Originally Posted by FunkyColdMedina

And because I know Mayor Moonbeam, with his love for bike lanes that are used by a very tiny fraction of all commuters (pedestrians, cars, transit users combine), will somehow use his city's "cut" of the funding to push his stupid agendas. Sorry to break it to all the hippies out there, for a significant part of the population it just don't make sense to invest in cycling when it rains so much AND the Lower Mainland is quite hilly, if they focused on the "public transit expansion" part of the program maybe I'd be okay with it. But we don't need more road space that buses or cars could be using wasted on empty lanes!

That's the problem, a lot of people don't have a "city" mindset


Bike lanes are awesome and once you start riding your bike regularly on sunny days while stoned they become godly. You can socialize with other bike riders, get exercise, de-stress...


Bike lanes rule!!!


Either way, fuck it, just focus on making mo' money and Vancouver can be your paradise too

[6o4__boi]

Originally Posted by supafamous

Here's the amount of property taxes that go to Translink per city:

https://infogr.am/translink_property...y_municipality

Considering the gap between West Van and the other cities I'd consider what he's saying to be bomb throwing. He should have said that West Van home owners disproportionately contribute via property taxes to Translink (which they sure seem to). The rest of us still pay too much property taxes to Translink.

fixed
i'd hardly call a couple hundred difference in property tax payment "disproportionate" especially when you look at the average income in West Van.

and i almost laughed my dinner out watching the news yesterday when they mentioned "Jim Pattison tax committee"
Yeah, i'd totally trust some rich old billionaire who couldn't give two fucks if he tried (figuratively and literally) to make sure taxpayer dollars are being responsibly spent

My biggest gripe with all this is that, they promise so much good shit, AFTER they get the money. Which is just about the easiest thing you can do at any level in life. Yeah, i'll do this, yeah i'll do that, it'll be fucking fantastic, the future will be bright, blah blah blah [insert scary statistic here as a consequence]...when i get the money.
I would vote yes if they had established an annual independent audit and worked on the transparency issue, oh i don't know, maybe a couple years or so before asking taxpayers for more money.
You want money now? After all the bullshit translinks been up to? After transparency issues? When the whole house is clearly a fucking mess?
Not even over my cold dead body.

[iEatClams]

I hate how the City of Vancouver is also limiting us with options on transportation by not allowing UBER into the city to HELP when the system is down. Perhaps it has more to do with how the taxi-cab company has a monopoly & how they donated to the Mayor's re-election campaign.

We need UBER to be here already. I don't like the taxi companies here.

[meme405]

Originally Posted by 6o4__boi

i'd hardly call a couple hundred difference in property tax payment "disproportionate" especially when you look at the average income in West Van.

Keep in mind that they pay all that money to translink but transit in west van is operated by the blue bus company, not translink.

So all that money from west van, and the only benefit they see is road infrastructure and such, they pay for their transit services separately. Also Transit police don't operate in west van, the WVPD attends to all matters.

So I would argue that yes, west van likely does overpay considering the the limited services they receive.

[tool001]

i want to vote no. however im afraid if no vote goes thru, they will simply add xxyz amount to property tax. gas tax. this tax, that tax for which they dont need a referendum. like jacking up parking rates for Olympics, paid parking till 10... etc etc.

i like how they use scare tactics , telling people Vancouver population is growing.. well guess what. that growing population will pay more into taxes also, so therefore your revenues going to increase as well.



that said. all public sectors (healthcare being one of them) are told "yes" is beneficial for them, i guess it frees up funds going into translink now , to be earmarked for other depts.

[carisear]

^^ there's nothing to stop them from implementing this tax, AND also raising the existing methods.

Infact road pricing (aka TOLLS) are being planned as it is already.

This whole thing is just so poorly thought out it's mind boggling.

[EndLeSS8]

It's disgusting how much money they're pouring out to "VOTE YES"

Half of the billboard ads on the Skytrain have been VOTE YES, been getting crap advertising in the mail for it, and also they even have it freaking plastered on the Skytrains now.

Makes me so angry

[6o4__boi]

^ i was thinking the exact same fucking thing.

I've got so much reasons to vote No.
The fact that they've fucking plastered "vote yes" on every goddamned surface in the Lower Mainland as well as on social media and traditional media is just what the fuck. I'd vote no just on the sheer amount of "vote yes" that's currently being rammed to my attention.

Fucking assholes.

[ImportPsycho]

Originally Posted by EndLeSS8

It's disgusting how much money they're pouring out to "VOTE YES"

Half of the billboard ads on the Skytrain have been VOTE YES, been getting crap advertising in the mail for it, and also they even have it freaking plastered on the Skytrains now.

Makes me so angry

no kidding, 7mil tax money spent by Yes side.
automated calls, ads, ppl handing out leaflet, meetings etc...
Mayors and those ppl, why are they pushing it so hard? Who's getting rich if Yes wins?

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by tool001

i want to vote no. however im afraid if no vote goes thru, they will simply add xxyz amount to property tax. gas tax. this tax, that tax for which they dont need a referendum. like jacking up parking rates for Olympics, paid parking till 10... etc etc.

This is the problem with voting no as an "anti-Translink protest": nobody else is going to see it as such. Translink won't change, the government won't change anything, ALL that will happen is you won't see the 0.5% PST add-on.

The Federal government has already committed $250M to these upgrades; the Provincial government has committed $250M; the whole thing isn't going to stop just because you all decide you don't like this ONE idea for the local level of government raising their third. They WILL collect it another way, and the only thing you'll accomplish by voting no will be that feeling of Sticking It To The Man<tm>.

i like how they use scare tactics , telling people Vancouver population is growing.. well guess what. that growing population will pay more into taxes also, so therefore your revenues going to increase as well.

Yes, but if (when) they get the funding and start building things NOW, the infrastructure will be ready for the hordes when they get here. Even if they start some of these projects today, it will be years before they're finished. The Patullo and Massey Tunnel replacements will be a good decade away before they're ready to go live. If you wait until there's a big enough influx of new people for their taxes to pay for it, they (and you) will have to suffer with those crossings, WITH all that extra traffic, for that much longer.

[gars]

Some of the infrastructure is also at a max. The 99 B Line for example - during rush hour - they simply can't run any more buses.

[CP.AR]

Keep in mind this is just a "Plan". Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think this is the first time that Translink came asking for money for a grand-plan, only to fall short completely and stick their hands further into my pocket.

I simply do not trust translink with anything anymore