Need your opinion - Car Inspection Fees

[kobesquared]

Looking to get RS's opinion on my situation. I am giving the details below with as little bias as possible and I am looking for honest opinions here. Thanks in advance!

Situation: I took a car for an inspection last week on Wednesday with the intention of buying it. I also ran an ICBC accident history report on the car to get the full history of the car to make an informed decision before offering a price on the car and to make sure I do all my checks first.

Costs: Inspection $80, ICBC report $20

Events:
1) From the get-go the seller claimed to have "overwhelming interest" in the car both privately and from dealers that the seller had to take the ad down. Feeling a bit pressed, I booked an appointment with my mechanic the next day to get a full inspection.

2) After the inspection, my mechanic said the total costs to repair and maintain the car would be about $5-6k (Clutch, timing belt, oil leak, replace wheel bearings, etc etc but that is not important, he's just doing his job and outlining areas of concern or that need attention).

3) The seller tells me they will take it to their mechanic to verify the results and get back to me during the weekend. I tell the seller that I am still interested to discuss the price and am still interested in the car. Also told the seller that my mechanic is very detailed and critical, just to let the seller know. The seller said that they may keep the car given all the issues and did not feel comfortable selling it.

4) No response all weekend and I had to text twice and call once (no answer) before finally getting a text back saying that the seller has decided to keep the car given all the "issues".

5) I ask that the seller reimburses me for the costs I incurred to get the car inspected and the claims report as it is not fair as the seller decided to pull out of the sale.

6) Seller claims that the costs incurred are for my own piece of mind and that he is not responsible for them.


MY PROBLEM:
I invested $100 in the car to get it checked out based on the understanding that it was for sale. The seller has backed out and used the excuse of "repair costs" and "over exaggerated" results from my inspection from my mechanic.

At NO POINT did I back out of the sale as the buyer, I kept asking when we can chat about making a deal. In addition, I have arranged to SELL MY CURRENT CAR and have a serious buyer in-line thinking that I would purchase this car.


I NEED YOUR OPINION
Do you think this is fair? Should I as the buyer, pay the costs of the car fees given that the seller backed out and not me?

What would you do if you were the buyer in this case?

Would you as a seller cover the costs? 100%, 50%, none?


If the buyer backs out after the inspection results, its the buyer's cost to eat. But in this case the seller backed out with no legitimate reason other than "I'm keeping the car".

TRUTH IS... the seller most likely won't pay me back regardless of which way this discussion goes, but I will still send the seller this thread link.

[nsx042003]

Did you make an offer?

I know what you mean when you are out some money trying to buy a car, but ultimately, both you and the seller did not come to an agreement on the purchase and so he can still pull out of the whole deal.

[68style]

Sorry man you're bitching about nothing... You spent that $100 to avoid spending thousands on a mistake. Cost of looking for a used car, that $100 spent saved your ass.

Don't be so naive, he's only backing out cuz he wants to sell it to someone who doesn't inspect it for morE money. He doesn't want to negotiate with you, I'm willing to bet he knew full well the car had lots of problems he's just looking for a sucker. Be thankful that wasn't you.

[zetazeta]

I know its not always fair but the cost of a PPI falls on the potential buyer's shoulder, especially since you used your own mechanic for the inspection. I guess I've been lucky in that both vehicles I've purchased did not have unexpected issues show up during the PPI so I ended up buying them.

I agree with the seller that the PPI is for the buyer's peace of mind and not the seller's responsibility. Also, as a seller, he might not trust your mechanic and think that he is overstating the problems with the car in an attempt to help you lower the price of the vehicle. Personally, I always offer the reports/inspections/carproof that I purchased when I was inspecting the vehicle to future buyers and tell them its up to them if they want to get any further inspections or reports.

[dared3vil0]

Cost of the PPI is 100% on your shoulders.

[smoothie.]

unless buyer paid for the inspection, to add it to cost of car price, it's all on you.

its a blessing in disguise, I would've walked away laughing having paid $100 to save $5k

[mb_]

The buyer paying for PPI regardless of if the vehicle is sold or not has always been the standard practice. If the seller decides to cover it, it'll be out of courtesy.

$100 to save yourself thousands of dollars is more than worth it

[kobesquared]

Thanks for all the feedback.

Sucks that it didn't work out, but you are all correct and I appreciate the replies.

Hopefully the right car comes around soon!

[CCA-Dave]

So this is where you make your best attempt to start learning to spot these things yourself. Take the list your mechanic gave you, and think about your session with the car. Were you able to detect any of these things yourself? Could you have, if you looked?

Clutch - Guaranteed your mechanic didn't pull the trans to inspect, so he's made that determination either via the pedal feel, some slipping during a test drive or general assumption based on mileage and car model. Which was it? Did you detect any issues?

timing belt - This is assessed either by visual inspection (pulling the cover), and/or by maintenance records. You can learn to pop the cover, even with the owner standing there, to confirm it looks in good shape. I suspect you didn't, since you're paying your mechanic.

oil leak - The source may not be obvious, but the leak should be.

replace wheel bearings - This you should be able to detect via test drive, did you hear it?

The reason I type all this, is you really have two options moving forward. Continue paying $100 for every potential car you wish to purchase, to find out what might be wrong with it...or learn to detect these things yourself, so you only bring for-sure buys to your mechanic. Because, chances are you would have listed at least 50% of the above needs in your pre-negotiation, and if you were still hitting upon a price that seems good for both buyer and seller, you take it to your mechanic.

but regardless, that inspection cost is on you...and a wise idea for anyone not confident they can find all the issues on their own.

-Dave

[mqin]

This kinda stuff just happens, not much you can do since its only $100. Yet it is still $100.

Just let this be a lesson learned, and before you pay for an inspection out of your own pocket the next time. Make an arrangement between you and the seller as to what you guys think is fair.

[kobesquared]

Totally agree with you Dave, but sometimes you can't really tell about the clutch. I had a car with a heavy clutch that slipped and also a light clutch that also slipped. Never got a chance to test drive this one, but you're right, the pedal did feel pretty dead so likely will go soon.

Thanks for the feedback and tips!

Originally Posted by CCA-Dave

So this is where you make your best attempt to start learning to spot these things yourself. Take the list your mechanic gave you, and think about your session with the car. Were you able to detect any of these things yourself? Could you have, if you looked?

Clutch - Guaranteed your mechanic didn't pull the trans to inspect, so he's made that determination either via the pedal feel, some slipping during a test drive or general assumption based on mileage and car model. Which was it? Did you detect any issues?

timing belt - This is assessed either by visual inspection (pulling the cover), and/or by maintenance records. You can learn to pop the cover, even with the owner standing there, to confirm it looks in good shape. I suspect you didn't, since you're paying your mechanic.

oil leak - The source may not be obvious, but the leak should be.

replace wheel bearings - This you should be able to detect via test drive, did you hear it?

The reason I type all this, is you really have two options moving forward. Continue paying $100 for every potential car you wish to purchase, to find out what might be wrong with it...or learn to detect these things yourself, so you only bring for-sure buys to your mechanic. Because, chances are you would have listed at least 50% of the above needs in your pre-negotiation, and if you were still hitting upon a price that seems good for both buyer and seller, you take it to your mechanic.

but regardless, that inspection cost is on you...and a wise idea for anyone not confident they can find all the issues on their own.

-Dave

[CCA-Dave]

Originally Posted by kobesquared

Totally agree with you Dave, but sometimes you can't really tell about the clutch. I had a car with a heavy clutch that slipped and also a light clutch that also slipped. Never got a chance to test drive this one, but you're right, the pedal did feel pretty dead so likely will go soon.

Thanks for the feedback and tips!

Oh, totally agreed. I have bought and sold way too many cars, and I'm still amazed (annoyed) at the stuff I miss when I'm looking at a potential beauty that might follow me home. But still, the goal is to only bring the very best cars to your mechanic for a once-over! Eventually you get to the point where you an weed out 80% of the cars over the phone before you even waste time to go and visit.

Mind you, I've always looked at buying a car like a job interview. I'm not just assessing the vehicle for what I can see and test, but I'm interviewing the seller to see if I get a "good vibe" from them. Even if the car looks like the greatest example I've ever seen, if I don't like the owner in a 'trustworthy' sense of the term, I'm passing.

-Dave

[Mr.C]

Dude, you were interested, paid for a PPI and a record check. It was a dud. If I was the seller, I'd rightfully tell you to pound sand.

[LP700-4]

I can see where you are coming from, pay for a PPI based on the fact that the guy is actually gonna sell the car. Turn around and they tell you its not for sale after its all said and done. Unfortunately unless both parties agreed on halfing the cost or specific terms beforehand then otherwise nothing you can do.

If its the same car i think you are talking about i believe the seller provided you with a history report but you decided to get another one for piece of mind or something along those lines? If so then that cost is entirely yours to shell out .

[Tone Loc]

Like someone else said above, buddy guy probably knew about all of those issues. Your inspection revealed them, and he knows that you will likely lowball him or negotiate a very low price because of the issues. So he backed out, knowing full well he wasn't going to get the amount he wanted from you.

Personally, $100 is a drop in the bucket compared to having bought the car and realizing it was a piece of crap. Just comes with the territory of privately buying/selling cars. It sucks, but news flash: there are a TON of dishonest people on Craigslist. Half the "skill" is weeding out the good guys from bad guys.

If you want a used car that will arrive 99.9% issue-free, go to a dealership and buy a certified pre-owned vehicle.

P.S. whenever I sell a car, I always make it a point to say in either the ad or my emails that any inspections, whether ICBC, mechanical, electrical, etc. are done are out of the buyer's pocket, not mine. From what I understand this is pretty common practise...

[swfk]

I would try and ask the seller if he's willing to split the cost for the inspection. If they don't then I'd keep the report for myself and disclose little of the findings to the seller. Just keep it brief or you can tell more if you're nice. I'm kind of a jerk about that lol.

Ultimately, unless there is a prior agreement in splitting a day permit or inspection, these should be on the buyers responsibility.

[dvst8]

Seller should cover at least 50% of the inspection in this case. If the seller didn't want to sell the car to OP, seller should have been honest with OP in the first place and not gone on with the inspection. You paid for a worthless report of someones car who had no intentions of selling it to you.

[flagella]

No point whining. Inspection was a put option you bought and it saved your ass from a huge potential loss. Next time maybe convince the seller that you will purchase the car on the condition that the PPI comes clean and paid by the seller at the shop of your choice. Of course the seller might just tell you to screw off depending on how hot his car is and you don't have much leverage.

[Reeyal]

The inspection is for your peace of mind. You want to make sure you are getting what was advertised, so you go get an inspection done. Ultimately, the cost is on you. Unless it was negotiated beforehand, the inspection costs is always on the buyer's end.

It is like buying a house. An home inspection is out of the buyer's pocket. Even if the seller backs out, the cost of the inspection is already spent. Although, most banks will reimburse you the amount because it is required for a mortgage (that's a totally different subject).

[GLOW]

post link to car so everyone on here knows to stay far far away from it?

[kobesquared]

Unfortunately the ad was taken down one day after I replied to him. Seems sketch from the get-go but I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt.

I got screwed around this time. Sad to know that dishonest jokers are out there. Oh well.

Originally Posted by GLOW

post link to car so everyone on here knows to stay far far away from it?

[underscore]

Originally Posted by kobesquared

Totally agree with you Dave, but sometimes you can't really tell about the clutch. I had a car with a heavy clutch that slipped and also a light clutch that also slipped. Never got a chance to test drive this one, but you're right, the pedal did feel pretty dead so likely will go soon.

Thanks for the feedback and tips!

A clutch slipping should be pretty obvious when driving, in my experience pedal feel hasn't got much to do with the health of the actual clutch.

[heleu]

Originally Posted by kobesquared

Unfortunately the ad was taken down one day after I replied to him. Seems sketch from the get-go but I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt.

I got screwed around this time. Sad to know that dishonest jokers are out there. Oh well.

I think your expectation of people or dealers selling on craigslist or autotrader is too high.

I also don't think you are the only one that gets screwed around buying a used car.

I've almost bought two cars with "no accidents" only to find out after I ran ICBC that they were either rebuilt or had a major collision. Both times, the sellers said they were confident the ICBC report would be clean....I guess they are waiting for a sucker to believe them and not run the report.

Just this past December, I did an inspection on a late model Lexus from a well known local dealer...the engine bay was chewed up and the dead rat was still in the engine bay. There was also black electrical tape covering a check engine light, probably from electrical issues.

Yes, I wasted a couple hundred bucks, but like everyone else said, it's well worth it compared to the thousands I would have spent fixing stuff afterwards. I also don't have the mechanical aptitude of some of the other guys on this site, so I will always keep paying for inspections.

I look at used cars with the expectation that the seller (be it private or dealer) is trying to hide something. Any other expectation would be naive and asking for trouble.

[Mr.C]

Originally Posted by kobesquared

Unfortunately the ad was taken down one day after I replied to him. Seems sketch from the get-go but I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt.

I got screwed around this time. Sad to know that dishonest jokers are out there. Oh well.

No you didn't.

When I was shopping around for my current 7 series, I probably paid around $400 worth of PPIs and ICBC reports. And you know what? Worth every penny.

For example, there was a super nice 750iL individual for sale a while ago, with rare options like full leather and fridge in the back. Car looked great in the pictures.

However, when we looked at the car, it had a ton of mechanical issues that would cost ~$4000 to fix. Additionally, it had $60,000 (yes, sixty THOUSAND dollars) worth of claims on it. I think I still have the ICBC report somewhere.

Imagine if I had bought that car based on how good it looked on the surface...

Edit:

Here's the ICBC report.

[jackp0t]

Originally Posted by underscore

A clutch slipping should be pretty obvious when driving, in my experience pedal feel hasn't got much to do with the health of the actual clutch.

You can actually tell in your clutch pedal when the clutch is on its way When the engagement point is slowly creeping up ( the closer to the top the lesser the clutch life)
At that point you can do the 4th-5th gear test for slippage.

To the OP yes that's a pretty common practice w/ shady people.
Ive experience it myself although I did the inspection my self.
After i found more problems seller pulled out the ad posted it a few weeks later.
Then a friend msg'd the seller and lied about the new problems

Buying anything used is always buyer beware