Are you a second class Canadian?

[Tapioca]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

is there anything the public can do about this?
the change.org petition says to change the bill but it's now an official law
i read that now that it's an actual law it can finally be challeneged in court?
clearly i don't remember the civics stuff I learned in 8th grade.

- Contact opposition MPs and have them raise the matter in committee or question period
- Tweet mainstream media political journalists and see if they'll write pieces about it
- Wait until someone "who's innocent" becomes a victim of the bill and crowdfund their court challenge
- Get a dual national celebrity to start a campaign about it
- Run as a candidate in the next federal election and campaign to do your hardest to have the legislation repealed (and get labeled as a terrorist sympathizer in the process)

Shitty laws get hacked by the courts all of the time. If this law is as shitty as people here and in other parts of the internet say it is, it will get hacked by the courts. You just have to wait for someone else to challenge it (hopefully, it won't be you).

[twitchyzero]

so an average citizen can only challenge a law when they're being victimized by it?
what can the opposition politicians actually get done during a question period?

someone has the contact for the manager of jim carey or bill shatner? heck even the two previous Governor General weren't born in Canada.

[Traum]

Anyone can challenge a law whether they have been victimized by it or not. If you do that, you are basically just suing the Government of Canada and taking them to court. But as with any legal process, the costs are going to be hugely expensive. So unless someone is footing the bill or willing to do this for free, the law remains unchallenged and people will just continue to bxtch.

If enough noise gets generated, however, somebody -- probably a focus group or certain well known individuals -- will find a way to take care of the expenses and take the government to court. For this particular bill/law, I feel confident enough that the wording means it will get struck down since it violates the Canadian constitution. So most likely, as soon as someone takes the government to court, the government lawyers will advise the government to settle with the plantiff and amend the law.

[Hondaracer]

All you second class Canadians need to pack up and get back to wheres ya cames from

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

All you second class Canadians need to pack up and get back to wheres ya cames from

Unless you are first nation, I would take that back if I were you.

[zulutango]

[The Khadrs:] Canada's First Family of Terrorism :: Daniel Pipes


Maybe this is who the legislators had in mind? Why are they still in Canada?

[BoostedBB6]

Has there been any cases where the government has exercised this? I would look myself but I really have no idea where one would look for information like that.

[dragondragon99]

i was born here niggaz

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

All you second class Canadians need to pack up and get back to wheres ya cames from

Jealousy brings out hate.

[vitaminG]

Originally Posted by zulutango

[The Khadrs:] Canada's First Family of Terrorism :: Daniel Pipes


Maybe this is who the legislators had in mind? Why are they still in Canada?

maybe because they have not committed any crimes? obviously most canadians are repulsed by their ideas, but i dont think any of them have been found guilty of committing a crime.

as for omar khadr i dont think he is a citizen of any other country so this law wouldnt apply to him regardless.

this law is generally toothless since it wont even be effective against most of the people its aimed against. all it does is give government broad powers

[zulutango]

[QUOTE=vitaminG;8647094]maybe because they have not committed any crimes? obviously most canadians are repulsed by their ideas, but i dont think any of them have been found guilty of committing a crime.


Just nice, friendly, gentle "folks"....

The terrorism-related activities of other Khadr family members — wife, one of two daughters, three of four sons — complement their patriarch's record.

Wife Maha Elsamnah took her then 14-year-old son Omar from Canada to Pakistan in 2001 and enrolled him for Al Qaeda training.
Daughter Zaynab, 23, was engaged to one terrorist and married, with Osama bin Laden himself present at the nuptials, a Qaeda member in 1999. Zaynab endorses the 9/11 atrocities and hopes her infant daughter will die fighting Americans.
Son Abdullah, 22, is a Qaeda fugitive constantly on the move to elude capture. Canadian intelligence states he ran a Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan during the Taliban period, something Abdullah denies.
Son Omar, 17, stands accused of hurling a grenade in July 2002, killing an American medic in Afghanistan. Omar lost sight in one eye in the fighting and is now a U.S. detainee in Guantánamo.
Son Abdul Karim, 14, half-paralyzed by wounds sustained in the October 2003 shoot-out that left his father dead, is presently prisoner in a Pakistani hospital.

[godwin]

or winners like these:

Parents learn hard $170,000 lesson in breeding ?family crime empire?
By Adrian Humphreys June 11, 2015 8:54 PM

Two of their sons died in gangland shootouts, two others face drug trafficking or murder charges in mob-related cases, and a fifth is on the run abroad. Now, their parents are learning another hard lesson in breeding a self-made crime group — they’ve lost the $170,000 they posted to have their eldest son released from jail.

Hossein Al Khalil and Soumayya Azzam were fighting in court to salvage bond money paid to have Nabil Alkhalil released. Their bond was lost when he fled Canada on a bogus passport soon after.

The judge’s ruling against them — with Nabil still a fugitive — is but one entry in an unrelenting stream of bad news involving their sons.

“These two parents of five sons came to Canada, presumably to make a better life for themselves. Now, having buried two kids before they reached the age of 20, they have two more facing the possibility of a long time in prison,” said Sgt. Lindsey Houghton of B.C.’s Combined Forces Special Enforcement Unit.

“The actions of these boys have destroyed that family.”

The family arrived in Canada from Saudi Arabia as refugees in 1990, although their roots are believed to be in Iran, and settled in Surrey, B.C. After two sons were killed in gangland violence, they moved to Ottawa and Montreal.

“They took all of their organized crime and gang connections with them,” said Houghton.

The couple’s second son had been the first to die.

In 2001, Khalil Alkhalil, 19, was shot dead in Surrey in a gunfight over a drug debt. His killer claimed self-defence and was freed. The shooter’s lawyer was beaten up in court by angry supporters of Alkhalil, and the shooter himself was later gunned down in Kelowna in a case that remains unsolved.

The fourth son, Mahmoud Alkhalil, was one of three people killed in a notorious gunfight in 2003 between gang rivals in Vancouver’s Loft Six nightclub. He made it out of the building, but was found bleeding and unconscious after crashing his car 20 blocks away. When he succumbed to his injuries at age 19, he already had a lengthy criminal record.

The youngest son, Rabih “Robby” Alkhalil, was only two when he came to Canada.

In February, Rabih was extradited to Canada after his arrest in Greece; Crown attorneys in three provinces are now lining up to see who gets first crack at prosecuting him.

In Vancouver, he is charged with first-degree murder in the 2012 hit on gangster Sandip “Dip” Duhre in the Sheraton Wall Centre. In Toronto, he is charged with first-degree murder in the 2012 shooting of Johnnie Raposo on the patio of the Sicilian Sidewalk Cafe in Little Italy.

‘These three brothers, despite what tragedy their family has undergone, have evolved their criminal activities and taken them to highest levels on an international scale’

In Montreal and in Niagara Falls, Ont., he faces cocaine smuggling charges with a member of the Hells Angels.

The couple’s third son, Hisham “Terry” Alkhalil, was arrested last year in Ottawa in what officers called “a pre-emptive strike” to avert a gang war. Police seized 24.5 kilograms of cocaine with an estimated street value of $12.5 million, four guns and an opulent $1.2 million home Hisham was about to move into.

Nabil is the eldest. Soon after his release from jail in 2005 for assault, his Cadillac was stopped for speeding on Highway 401 near Cornwall, Ont.

When Nabil, the driver, was asked to open the trunk, he drove off, leaving his brother Hisham behind as he led police on a long, high-speed chase. When he was caught, a duffel bag with 11 kilos of cocaine was found nearby.

Nabil was convicted of cocaine trafficking and ordered deported, as he had been before. But because he is considered stateless — no country will grant him travel papers as a citizen — he is considered unremovable.

He was released from immigration detention in 2010 after his parents posted $170,000 as surety.

Nabil’s wife, Louisa, told court her husband wanted to leave Canada because rival gangs were targeting him and his family.

She said Ottawa police warned him of threats against his life and he caught a private investigator watching their home. He feared rivals planned to kill him as retaliation against his brother Rabih.

He once visited the Lebanese embassy to obtain a passport but was unsuccessful, she said.

On Nov. 3, 2013, Nabil left home and called her three days later saying he was “somewhere in the Middle East,” she said. He is willing to meet Canadian officials abroad so they can confirm his departure. but no such arrangements have been made, court heard.

It was a violation of many of his strict conditions, including curfew and residences requirements. Canada Border Services Agency wrote to Nabil’s parents, saying their bond had been forfeited and demanding cheques to cover the remainder of the surety.

The parents complained to the Federal Court of Canada.

Judge Richard Mosley found they were “not wholly without guilt” in Nabil’s flight because they waited three days before alerting CBSA.

Police who have investigated the family for years said they are a stark example of the damage and danger that can come with a life of crime.

“These three brothers, despite what tragedy their family has undergone, have evolved their criminal activities and taken them to highest levels on an international scale,” said Houghton.

“They built a family crime group empire.”

But to do so they have lost so much.

A call to the parents’ Toronto lawyer was not returned before deadline on Thursday.

[vitaminG]

i dont see your point, nobody is arguing khadrs or alkalil are great people. if there is a law they broke they should be prosecuted by the courts. and if they are not canadians citizens they should be deported

my point is I dont think the canadian government should have authority to strip the citizenship of undesirables especially without any judicial oversight.

[zulutango]

There is a proces that is law, that has to be followed before that is done. That is the point of the law. The Govt HAS the authority to do that...to suggest there is no oversight is not correct. Some person doesn't just stand up, point a finger at someone and say get out of Canada....and personally, even here on RS I believe that most would rather live in a society where we let someone come here...but if they are involved in major crimes and attempt to destroy us and our way of life, they should get booted back home. Maybe I'm wrong on this ?

[Traum]

Originally Posted by zulutango

There is a proces that is law, that has to be followed before that is done. That is the point of the law. The Govt HAS the authority to do that...to suggest there is no oversight is not correct. Some person doesn't just stand up, point a finger at someone and say get out of Canada....and personally, even here on RS I believe that most would rather live in a society where we let someone come here...but if they are involved in major crimes and attempt to destroy us and our way of life, they should get booted back home. Maybe I'm wrong on this ?

Yes, there is a process that the government would have to follow to boot someone out, but under Bill C-24, this seems to have merely become an administrative process instead of a legal process -- there is no judge involved in the decision making process, and that is one of the biggest gripe I have with this particular law.

Additionally, while I kind of agree that it would be a good idea to boot someone out if they commit major crimes and attempt to destroy our way of life, in practice, there are other considerations to take into account as well. You are free to call me stupid, but I think equality stands higher on the totem pole. At its core, the fundamental rights enjoyed by one Canadian should be no different than those enjoyed by another, but this law throws that completely out of the window. Furthermore, I argue that there are already other laws that are more than enough to address the need to penalize an individual that would have been booted out of the country. Life imprisonment without parole seems perfectly adequate to me.

Last but not least, I think one particular aspect of this law is severely flawed. If I am not mistaken, this particular law allows Canada to strip a naturalized citizen's status if he was found guilty of terrorism charges in/by other countries. And remember, there is no (Canadian) judge involved in the process to review the citizenship revocation. To use an extreme example, let's say I was convicted of terrorism charges in DPRK because I forgot my Bible at some public place. Under C-24, I am now potentially eligible to have my citizenship stripped. And remember, there is no (Canadian) judge in the process to oversee things.

Of course, it is highly unlikely that I will get my citizenship revoked in such an extreme example, but the mere fact that I can potentially stand to lose my citizenship is already not acceptable.

I want to stress that there is a lot of good in other aspects of the bill. In particular, I support the more stringent requirements that are needed before someone can apply for citizenship. However, the glaring flaws in the bill far outweights the benefits that it brings. As a result, in its current form, this is not something I can support.

[Gucci Mane]

Originally Posted by Traum

Additionally, while I kind of agree that it would be a good idea to boot someone out if they commit major crimes and attempt to destroy our way of life, in practice, there are other considerations to take into account as well. You are free to call me stupid, but I think equality stands higher on the totem pole. At its core, the fundamental rights enjoyed by one Canadian should be no different than those enjoyed by another, but this law throws that completely out of the window. Furthermore, I argue that there are already other laws that are more than enough to address the need to penalize an individual that would have been booted out of the country. Life imprisonment without parole seems perfectly adequate to me.

there should be absolutely no equality for people who have committed major crimes. if someone is a convicted rapist with a couple of convictions under their belt, fuck em. they shouldn't even be allowed to be in jail chewing up my fucking tax dollars to give them a nice place to sleep, watch tv and have 3 square meals a day. that person should be thrown into a fucking hole and left to rot there. plain and simple.

life imprisonment is also a joke. whats the point of us keeping a criminal from a foreign country in our jail sucking up $117,000 a year of tax payers money? i work my butt off and i dont make any where near that much in a year. again, send them to a shit hole that they can rot in.

as you can tell, i have absolutely no sympathy for criminals that have caused pain or suffering to other human beings or animals. that being said, i also think that prison sentences for white collar crime are a little too stiff. theres no need to throw someone in jail for life that stole 100million from some big corporation..

[Traum]

I have very little sympathy for people who commit major crimes as well. The biggest problem I've outlined is, in its current form, the conditions that make a naturalized citizen eligible to lose its citizenship is highly questionable. And then there is the problem of not having a Canadian judge to review the citizenship revocation process.

Please see my DPRK example again.

[Spoon]

Originally Posted by Pidish

there should be absolutely no equality for people who have committed major crimes. if someone is a convicted rapist with a couple of convictions under their belt, fuck em. they shouldn't even be allowed to be in jail chewing up my fucking tax dollars to give them a nice place to sleep, watch tv and have 3 square meals a day. that person should be thrown into a fucking hole and left to rot there. plain and simple.

Originally Posted by Pidish

as you can tell, i have absolutely no sympathy for criminals that have caused pain or suffering to other human beings or animals. that being said, i also think that prison sentences for white collar crime are a little too stiff. theres no need to throw someone in jail for life that stole 100million from some big corporation..

Oh the irony. First you wanted people who committed major crime to be booted. Then you inject your personal biases into what's considered major crime. Not that easy huh?

[jasonturbo]

YouTube

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

life is war.

born into the notions of struggle and sacrifice.

you can be passive and peaceful, and hope your enemies have enough empathy to do the same. Failure will only end in the acceptance of your failed contribution to the ideals of peace.

or you can fight with tooth and nail, but you should expect them to do worse to you than you did to them.

fucked if you do, fucked if you don't.

the harder we make our laws, the harder our citizens and enemies will become, eventually, and always leading to creating enemies within the our borders.

life is war.

the only way to win, is to take the higher moral position, and to always just forgive and forget. over. and over. and over again. indefinitely.

if you pick up that gun to fire back, you have just willfully joined the war. and they will never forget or forgive. and neither will you.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Hehe

Unless you are first nation, I would take that back if I were you.

[Tone Loc]

Originally Posted by zulutango

There is a proces that is law, that has to be followed before that is done. That is the point of the law. The Govt HAS the authority to do that...to suggest there is no oversight is not correct. Some person doesn't just stand up, point a finger at someone and say get out of Canada....and personally, even here on RS I believe that most would rather live in a society where we let someone come here...but if they are involved in major crimes and attempt to destroy us and our way of life, they should get booted back home. Maybe I'm wrong on this ?

You're absolutely correct. Problem is, a lot of people - including, sadly, many of these RS comments - are not thinking logically. People are acting like all of a sudden, people are going to be evicted from Canada en masse, without any judicial oversight, trial or appeal. When in reality, these laws are so mired with legal mumbo-jumbo and bureaucracy that I would be surprised if even one person was successfully booted out of Canada and lost their appeal (if any) to stay. I hate to say it, but I personally see it as a form of "me too" posturing that shows the rest of the world that we too are doing something about the "war on terror".

I don't see what the big deal is, my parents are immigrants and technically that would make me a "second-class citizen" because I qualify for Philippine citizenship which would open the door to getting me 'booted out' of Canada... but again, I am not worried about me or my family being deported because nobody in my family is a fucking terrorist...

[zulutango]

My parents were immigrants too...escaped from Scotland in the 1800's and landed in New Scotland....

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by zulutango

My parents were immigrants too...escaped from Scotland in the 1800's and landed in New Scotland....

How old are you again?

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Hehe

As in, everyone except the First Nations were an immigrant from somewhere some time.

They immigrated as well, but they were the first ones to do so.

Originally Posted by Mikoyan

It's not just immigrants that they can revoke the citizenship from. They can take a Canada born citizen's citizenship as long as they have the possibility of citizenship from another country.

Are you certain it's the possibility of citizenship from another country, and not that you actually have existing dual citizenship?

Originally Posted by Mikoyan

Also, the government doesn't care if the charges are legit or not. If you're put up on trumped up charges by a third world dictatorship, too bad!

I'm doubtful that it's an instant, black or white response to charges, but I could be wrong. Care you direct me to some sauce on that?

Originally Posted by zulutango

My parents were immigrants too...escaped from Scotland in the 1800's and landed in New Scotland....

This made me chuckle as I just watched the episode of Archer where they transport a terrorist fighting to separate Nova Scotia from the rest of Canada.