Should dogs be allowed on restaurant patios?

[Tone Loc]

Originally Posted by melloman

For me personally, it comes down to dog owners. When I had a dog, the worst thing was the owners. Entitled, always right, lazy, retarded, self-righteous owners.. And we have ALOT of them here in Vancouver.

Yes, but this isn't a reflection on dogs, it's of people... you can say the same thing about parents, drivers, cyclists, transit users, pedestrians, etc...

Vancouver is a city full of "entitled, always right, lazy, retarded, self-righteous" people. Some just happen to have dogs.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by meme405

Also the number of guide dogs is very small in comparison to the number of people with just a regular dog, so chances are although they are allowed everywhere it's going to be pretty rare that you actually encounter one if you are worried or allergic.

Good point, I dunno about anyone else but I very rarely see guide dogs, I've probably only seen a handful of them in my life, yet I see dozens of pet dogs every day.

Originally Posted by Soundy

any number of other things that are done regularly all over the world

Spoiler alert: just because something is done elsewhere doesn't make it a good idea, let alone a good idea for here.

Originally Posted by Soundy

So nobody worries if the dog is on the other side of the patio railing, but bring it inside the railing and suddenly dog hair is a concern??

If the dog is on the other side of the railing it's only near the table it's with, and at least several feet from any other tables. Bring the dog inside the railing and now it's parked between tables and right next to random people and their food. If the dogs were all well trained and lay under the table like guide dogs people wouldn't mind so much, but considering how absolutely worthless at controlling their pets most people are you know that they won't be doing that.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by 6o4__boi

still, i'll play this game. I'm bored.

Explain your reply. How'd you arrive to it?
You the type of person who thinks they're smarter than everyone? I'm right or you're some sort of uneducated imbecile blocking the flow of change?

Lol. Please genius, blow me away with your knowledge. You're so good, you figured out that because i think some 23 year old's stupid online petition is stupid, i must think it's a good idea for low speed limits, no liquor in grocery stores, bar closing times etc.
I want to pick your professional brain and your expertise in logic and reasoning.

/s

Spoiler!

or you know, just explain how in just two post, you've managed to go from stupid to pretty fucking stupid.

I'll take "Completely missing the point" for 200, Alex.

[6o4__boi]

Daily double! Let's make it a true daily double!

Seriously, I've had a dog for most of my life and never once did I sit at a patio drinking beers with friends thinking "hmmm you know what would go great with this nice cold beer, awesome company, stupid conversation, gentle summer breeze and beautiful sunshine? My fucking dog by my fucking leg." So why change that? Strictly at that level of logic without deviating into other non-sensical retort and then attempting to twist it and say I'm missing some sort of life-changing realization.

Unless I was in Yulin

[snails]

k. so who would actually bring their dog to these patios.

think about it.. the same people that dont give a shit about those around them, the same people that let their children scream and cry in restaurants because they are entitled fucks.

i know a lot of people with well behaved, clean dogs.. but i also know people with loud, slobbery and overall pretty unsanitary dogs

the people with the well trained/groomed ones are usually conscious of the fact that not all people are dog people and probably wouldnt bring their dogs to these patios even if they were allowed

and its those owners that dont give a shit about those around them that will abuse it just because they can and that ruins the whole idea for me. these are the kind of people that still lock their dogs in cars on a hot summer day with windows up because they couldnt go to costco without their fucking dog for some reason but arnt smart enough to realize why its a bad idea..

whos problem is it when the dog misbehaves? shits in the middle of the patio drools all over someone? i can only imagine the owners would react the same way most parents with screaming parents will react and just ignore it

like others posted, it comes down to the owners more than anything for me.

[Hot Karl]

my brother in law has a service lab. he's invisible. but i'm sure you guys all have dealings with a guide dog on a consistent basis like i do. i just saw my bro and his dog yesterday.

once again, explain to me how a service dog doesn't shed, have allergens or cause any of the exact same hygiene problems as some "chick with a little dog"

fuck you idiots. guide dogs don't change the fact it's a DOG.

the concern is
"SHITTING ON MY SHOE"
"HAIR IN MY FOOD"
"I'M ALLERGIC"

ONCE AGAIN, EXPLAIN HOW BEHAVIOR IS RELATED TO CLEANLINESS?

playing the bullshit hygiene card, i'm just calling out your hypocrisy.

studies show kids have literal feces on their hands. kids also touch every single surface.

so we should be banning kids from public areas right? i mean what if a baby shits on your face? dog hater logic.

pussy ass germaphobe faggots. go bathe in more purell with your bitchass immune system.

[6o4__boi]

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Hot Karl

my brother in law has a service lab. he's invisible. but i'm sure you guys all have dealings with a guide dog on a consistent basis like i do. i just saw my bro and his dog yesterday.

once again, explain to me how a service dog doesn't shed, have allergens or cause any of the exact same hygiene problems as some "chick with a little dog"

fuck you idiots. guide dogs don't change the fact it's a DOG.

Easy, the difference is volume. How many guide dogs aside from you BILs do you see vs regular dogs? There are 5.9 million dogs in Canada, I had a hard time finding a solid number on guide dogs but it seems to be in the <50k range. And as you said, those service dogs are invisible. They don't run around, they don't shake and scratch and toss hair everywhere. Now these idiots want to allow 110x more dogs access to restaurants, dogs that are not professionally trained and most certainly not invisible, and you think they're even remotely the same as a service dog? You of all people should be very aware of how different their behavior is.

And how fucking stupid are you to think that a dog shitting on the floor would ever be a problem with a service dog?

[Tone Loc]

I THINK what Hot Karl is trying to say is that, kids are allowed everywhere but can often be just as dirty and/or unhygienic as most domestic pets...

.. if anyone has actually been around <8 year-old children for any amount of time, hard to argue with his point.

From my personal experience, when I am out in public I encounter exponentially more unhygienic, misbehaving, and unruly children than dogs. But maybe that's just me?

[6o4__boi]

between the you're all hypocrites and fucking idiots, i'm the Jesus Einstein H. Tesla of common-sense knowledge, suck-my-dick-and-stroke-my-biceps-while-I-type-and-inject-steroids-up-my-ass-part...i don't really give a fuck what he means lol.

i wouldn't say exponentially. I've been around <8 kids, my fiancee is a teacher so essentially my day consists of hearing every detail from her classroom or attending some school function...some have questionable hygiene, others not so much but it's not to the point where its really noticeable. I think you're feeding off a social stereotype or availability heuristic there.
Exponential is a huge exaggeration.

Either way, dog does not equal children. In the context of the argument, you can't use children in place of dogs to push the dogs-to-patio agenda. It just doesn't work that way.

[Ronin]

I think of other people's dogs like I think of other people's kids. You might love them and want them with you everywhere but if they bother me, you have to understand that I neither love nor give a shit about your dog/kids and you can't get mad at me like I'm the one that hates dogs/kids.

Guide dogs are fine.

[melloman]

For the record, I probably hate unruly dogs just as much as unruly kids.

They all deserve a smack on the nose.

[NNT]

Let the restaurant decide I would say. Doesn't matter if it is dog hair, bird shit, insect or car pollute, when a person chose to sit/eat at patio he is taking consequences of things getting into their food. My only concern is how the pet owner/restaurant owner can make sure the dog wont bark, runs around (tripping hazard) or get into fight. if the restaurant are confident to maintain a safe environment then i don't see a problem for a dog friendly patio.

[Phil@rise]

Im a dog owner and a father I dont think dogs nor miss behavin kids should be allowed. Its a nuisance thats inconsiderate of those around you.

[westopher]

It should be up to the establishment. I can tell you there was no better place I've ever been in my life than sitting in a bar in seattle with a 3 legged pit sauntering up to me and putting his head in my lap for a scratch while I'm pounding beers back. It was fucking great, like being at a buddies house. All the dogs in the bar (yes inside) were well trained, and all the people in the bar loved the dogs. There are so many bars that allow it, and so many that don't. You've got the choice to go where you want to go. The problem will likely lie therein the vancouver entitled dipshit population that will bring their untrained inbred designer yapshit dog without any regard for those around them. Personally, my dog has spent time on the patio in whistler with no issues, along with other dogs there with no issues. I think with vancouver the main problem is going to be how fucking stupid the people are in this city. I don't want to be in the same bar as some fucking clown railing k off of the back of a toilet seat while puking on his affliction shirt so I stay out of gastown on the weekends. If an establishment and its policies/clientele aren't to your liking, theres a few thousand other options for you.

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by Hot Karl

my brother in law has a service lab. he's invisible. but i'm sure you guys all have dealings with a guide dog on a consistent basis like i do. i just saw my bro and his dog yesterday.

once again, explain to me how a service dog doesn't shed, have allergens or cause any of the exact same hygiene problems as some "chick with a little dog"

fuck you idiots. guide dogs don't change the fact it's a DOG.

the concern is
"SHITTING ON MY SHOE"
"HAIR IN MY FOOD"
"I'M ALLERGIC"

ONCE AGAIN, EXPLAIN HOW BEHAVIOR IS RELATED TO CLEANLINESS?

playing the bullshit hygiene card, i'm just calling out your hypocrisy.

studies show kids have literal feces on their hands. kids also touch every single surface.

so we should be banning kids from public areas right? i mean what if a baby shits on your face? dog hater logic.

pussy ass germaphobe faggots. go bathe in more purell with your bitchass immune system.

I do have to (sort of) agree with this. Broadly speaking, apart from the specialized training, a guide dog is no different than any of our own dogs. Unless your guide dog is a bichon frise (god, that would be interesting to see ), it will still cause someone an allergic reaction. However, someone who is that allergic to pet dander likely wont be eating dinner on a patio next to a sidewalk and is probably stuck inside a plastic bubble anyway. So, yes, using that as a valid argument seems a little silly.

On the flip side, that's why you get your kids to wash their hands before they eat. And, frankly, I don't know of anyone who changes their baby's diaper while eating dinner...

Apples and oranges...

That said, dog hair can and will go everywhere. My (certified therapy dog, i feel compelled to add) red nose pitbull rarely scratches itself, but even as it walks, it sheds hair. Even if you brush him for two hours straight, twenty minutes later you can often see a trail of hair. His hair is short and coarse, so it doesn't fly around very easily. However, long haired dogs (or even short haired ones with very soft fur) can have stray hairs float in the air for ages. As the owner, you know where your dog has been and what he may have been running and rolling around in. However, as a random patron to a restaurant, you don't know if that dog has come in straight from the groomers or just came off the beach while rolling around in dead fish. No, a single hair isn't going to kill you, but the fact that it has the potential of having something dangerous on it is what Health Canada is worried about.

As for certain dog's behaviour, well... just go to a dog park and you can see different people's attitudes towards training (or lack thereof). When I'm cooking in the kitchen, my dog knows not to enter it. He'll lay down at the border between the kitchen and dining room, in case I want to throw him an extra piece of meat or something, but that's as far as he'll go to begging. When we actually sit down to eat in the dining room, he knows not to beg and will go lie down on the couch in the living room. No muss, no fuss, no whining, no nothing. If he comes across another dog, he'll either be super friendly or he'll give off a quick growl and walk away to myself or my girlfriend.

I wont say my dog is completely perfect when it comes to being trained, but I'll bet he's probably better trained than the majority of dogs out there. And that's where I have a problem. Not all dogs are sociable, so what happens when a sociable dog is seated at a table near an unsociable one? What if a dog doesn't like the smell of you? What happens if an owner isn't paying attention to their dog and it decides to start jumping up on people's laps or tables? After all, not everyone likes dogs and there is a percentage out there that actually fears them. What happens if a dog isn't properly house trained and decides to use your leg as a replacement fire hydrant? What happens if a kid starts pulling on a dog belonging to someone else and, instead of gently trying to get out of the way, decides to bite said kid?

Yes, these can all seem like stupid questions and the likelyhood of something negative happening is pretty slim. However, all it takes is one bad incident and everyone will be clamouring to outlaw dogs from patios again. There is a lot of liability that a restaurant can find themselves with should they allow dogs onto their premises and I don't know how many of them are willing to shoulder it. A simple sign on the door saying that they aren't liable doesn't hold up in court, and they know it.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

obviously it should be up to the restaurant. their choice will affect their revenues...

if you don't like dogs on patios, then you'll avoid that restaurant. if you like dogs on patios then you'll go there more often.

i don't wanna compare dogs to children, but im gonna anyway. there are plenty of places that don't allow children.

[SpartanAir]

^ I agree, should be up to the restaurant.

"Honey, let's bring the kids to Fred's Flapjack Feedhole because we can bring Spanky, and Spanky can sit with us and the kids can feed him nachos"

"Baby, I don't want to go to Fred's Flapjack Feedhole because there are dogs on the patio and people are always feeding them nachos"

These are realistic conversations people will have. So it will affect the restaurant, and it would depend on the type of food, their market, the layout of the restaurant etc.

Personally, as much as I love dogs, I don't see a problem with the way it normally goes, where you get a patio seat by the fence, and Spanky is tied up on the other side with a water bowl. That way he's near you but not actually with you. What's wrong with that?

[westopher]

I agree with that. Although I'd be happy to take my dog on the occasional patio. There is nothing wrong with having him right on the other side of the fence tied up, or leaving him at home for a while with his kong full of treats.

[Gh0stRider]

no, no dogs allowed.