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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 10,645
Thanked 2,191 Times in 1,131 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp
I could never live in a place where safety procedures are barely existent, and the ones that exist are ignored 100% of the time anyway. RIP to those unaware and those who don't have a choice.
How you you think all of the cheap crap from China are made?
I'm sure we won't find out for sure for quite some time, but CNN seemed to suggest it could've been a mix of reactive chemicals.
Quote:
"According to the Tianjin Tanggu Environmental Monitoring Station, hazardous chemicals stored by the company concerned include sodium cyanide (NaCN), toluene diisocyanate (TDI) and calcium carbide (CaC2), all of which pose direct threats to human health on contact. NaCN in particular is highly toxic. Ca(C2) and TDI react violently with water and reactive chemicals, with risk of explosion.
I could never live in a place where safety procedures are barely existent, and the ones that exist are ignored 100% of the time anyway. RIP to those unaware and those who don't have a choice.
i think we've all forgotten that only a few months back this happened:
if there was anything worse around or inside that container, or if the emergency response was more lacking, this could have been us.
for those watching the newsfeeds, tianjin's main hospital (not including two other hospitals in the area) is larger than anything we have here, and they are at overflow capacity and treating patients outdoors... over here on a normal day our ERs in any of our hospitals has people stacked in the corridors and closets. i can't imagine what it would be like if we experienced a similar explosion or an earthquake
__________________ "The guy in the CR-V meanwhile, he'll give you a haughty glare. He's responsibly trying to lessen his impact, but there you go lumbering past him with your loud V8, flouting the new reality. You may as well go do some donuts in a strawberry patch and slalom through a litter of kittens." Dan Frio, Automotive Editor, Edmunds
It appears so far none of the first responders made it back alive, no trace of life within the 1km blast radius, air within 15km radius is hazardous, estimate to be deadly within 5 days of exposure, estimate around 3000+ dead. Corpses alone at TEDA are in the 1000~ mostly unidentifiable. Injuries reported up to a 30km radius.
It appears so far none of the first responders made it back alive, no trace of life within the 1km blast radius, air within 15km radius is hazardous, estimate to be deadly within 5 days of exposure, estimate around 3000+ dead. Corpses alone at TEDA are in the 1000~ mostly unidentifiable. Injuries reported up to a 30km radius.
Initial estimate does look extremely low. Some of the buildings are completely gone and there must be been people living in there. I can't even imagine how difficult it would be to even find corpses given the scale of the blast. The body could be blown to pieces and who knows how they've flown. One day someone might find a limb on their roof.
Wow I have been on a bit of a work bender this past week, so when I heard about this explosion and the 44 dead I didn't really pay much attention. I figured just some factory fire.
I finally watched the video's last night and all I can say is HOLY FUCK.
The 44 death count is a joke, there's entire buildings that are decimated. Chinese reporting at it's finest yet again. I guess they thought they could down play the incident until they realized how many videos were openly available of the explosion.
No source will be trustworthy, unfortunately. We'll probably never know if the death toll was 44 or 3000 or anything in between. 3000 is a made up number, but plausible.
just look at that. its almost all industrial/commercial zone. the highways surrounding it are fine. and the apartments/residential area doesn't start till the border of the explosion and they only have "broken glass".
my first reaction is, most people that got injured probably were just standing there watching the explosion and the glass blew up in their faces.
the people that were within the radius of the kill zone of the blast were probably few. mostly rescue workers and the few unfortunate.
like i said, the rest just got glass in their faces.
orientated to the map in the link:
everything to the top and right of the explosion is just nothing...
only to the left and below are apartments.
the kill radius is the shipping containers to the railway... everything beyond that is just shock wave.
Last edited by Ulic Qel-Droma; 08-14-2015 at 03:08 PM.
^^ Ulic, I'm sorry to say -- when it comes to China, and especially when it comes to disasters (be it natural or human-induced), you really don't know shxt.
the only reason people would doubt it is because they're already anti china and biased against everything china reports
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traum
^^ Ulic, I'm sorry to say -- when it comes to China, and especially when it comes to disasters (be it natural or human-induced), you really don't know shxt.
sorry dude.
u just have to look at the map and realise there's no way 3000 people were concentrated in an industrial zone in the middle of the night.
most people were at home in their apartments already and the apartments were all far away enough that they only suffered window breaking from shock wave blast.
it's just anti china sentiment. pretty obvious.
people in the hospitals that work there would be leaking info (if there are 3000 dead, that would mean there would be at least 3000-6000+ injured, the hospitals would be super overflowing).
all the ex pats that live there would be leaking info.
and guess what, no leaks. cuz guess what. it's true. and no, dont pull a CIC on me and say "china blocked everything thats why you didnt hear anything" lol. that's so BS. have any of u guys even been to china.
they have NO REASON to hide the number of deaths. this isn't some political bullshit they can leverage. jeezus christ.
people are so fucking paranoid schizoid, deep in their own weird fantasy.
i bet you anything, the reports are correct.
they would release correct statistics, and they're going to find out who's responsible and punish them with execution or if they're lucky, throw them in prison for the rest of their life for causing mass public disruption. that's exactly what is gonna happen.
to get anywhere even close to 1000 deaths, buildings have to be knocked over, and people crushed under them. like if the buildings were RIGHT BESIDE the explosion.
this isn't some earthquake where whole city is affected and thousands die (just think about it, an earth quake of massive scale, thousands die, hundreds of square km's are affected... this is like.. what.. this is just a few square miles. and the killzone is even smaller.)
to compare this is a similar explosion:
40,000 pounds (18 metric tons, they say the tianjin one was 21-22 metric tons).
if u wanted to kill 3000 people, you'd have to drop that in the middle of a cluster of apartment buildings FULL of people, dude.
or the original explosion has to yield around the size of a small nuke. enough to kill the people in those apartment buildings by shock wave alone. that requires a HUGE explosion. a kiloton. 40-50x bigger explosion than what you see.
Last edited by Ulic Qel-Droma; 08-14-2015 at 03:38 PM.
But this is China, where workers are not all accounted for in a company and hundreds of people would probably be working at night shifts.
Is still too early to really figure out how many total deaths there are, even if this was to happen in the USA or in any other major 1st world country.
dude, hundreds of people wouldn't be working there at night. look at the area. i bet there are only a few hundred people there in the day at the PEAK of operation hours.
the death toll is at 50, and injured is 700, and 71 critically injured. something like that.
700 people injured. that's a lot.
it takes a lot to kill a human being.
it seems that most of you have your perspective skewed because of anti east sentiment. and your lack of knowledge when it comes to explosions and radius blasts.
don't be fooled by the huge fire ball. there have been nukes that have been detonated with smaller fireballs than that.
it's a very INEFFICIENT explosion, and it's at GROUND level. not like a bomb where they detonate above ground surface.
comparing it to 911 is ridiculous. u have TWO of the TALLEST buildings in the world, JAM PACKED FULL of workers at PEAK hours. and they COLLAPSE and CRUSH everyone inside.
this is totally different.
atomic bombings killed 45,000–73,000 people in Hiroshima and 19,500–40,000 in Nagasaki from the explosion alone (not radiation poisoning).
the bombs were 15,000 tons and 21,000 tons (compared to 22).
you're telling me this blast killed 3000?
the math doesn't even add up for your guys's argument...
but for argument sake lets say the concentration of people is similar... the nukes were 1000x as powerful (and more effective cuz detonated 1km above surface)... so 1000x as powerful. killing almost exactly 1000x as many people... so this explosion is 1000x less powerful and reportedly has killed exactly 1000x less people... now do you really think there were THAT many people concentrated in that small area? c'mon man...
you would need 3000 people all standing beside the bomb for that to happen.
ALL those apartment buildings on the map would have to be crushed. CRUSHED. for 3000 or even 1000 people to DIE on the spot.
Last edited by Ulic Qel-Droma; 08-14-2015 at 04:01 PM.
I am not going to argue with you on the casualty figures, but I will remind you that the official Chinese news channel has a long established history in faking the casualty numbers. You wouldn't be just naive -- you'd have to be down right stupid -- to believe the official numbers are anything close to the actual figures.
you'd have to be stupid to believe 3000 people died in an area like that at night from a 22 metric ton explosion.
yeah maybe 100 people died instead of 70. even 200. sure. whatever.
but definitely not 1000, or 3000.
you guys are the ones that are naive, basing your conclusions on anti east sentiment and past propoganda.
you cannot hide the death of 3000 people in a city, when the whole world is watching.
3000 people vanishing means an exponential more amount of people being affected. they cannot silence that many. including expats and others with ability to communicate outside the great firewall.
give me a break.
how many dead bodies do u think they're hiding? tell me.
you all laugh at CIC when he's being nuts, but you guys can't tell when you're being exactly like him. lol.
even he makes more sense than you guys.
you guys are just pulling fake numbers outta your asses and your evidence is "china likes to lie, so they're lying, so there must be more dead bodies".
yeah ok. great logic there.
im saying even if they're lying (which i doubt), the body count matches the math. one doesnt have to be a rocket scientist to figure out 3000 deaths takes a lot more work than a 22 ton explosion in an industrial zone in the middle of the night.
tell me this, is there anything china can say where you'd believe them? the answer is no. so your logic and perception on the situation is already highly skewed and incorrect.
if china says 3000, you'll say 6000. if they say 6000, you'll say 12000.
you guys are being reverse CIC. no matter what the evidence is, you'll blame china for lying. no amount of evidence or logic will sway you from "china is lying".
instead of being paranoid schizoids toward lizardmen and illuminati... you guys are being even crazier by being paranoid schizoid to china. lol.
china likes to save face when it comes to political shit. but when it comes to accidents that are not their own fault, they wont care. there's no face to be lost, there's no reason to lie. the blame will be on someone else, and they're gonna make sure everyone sees who gets punished.
Last edited by Ulic Qel-Droma; 08-14-2015 at 04:19 PM.
you guys are all seeking "truth" but the truth can easily be deducted by looking at the pictures alone.
what you guys are seeking isnt truth, it's just to bash china.
if a nuke went off, and they said only 2000 people died. and the pictures and easy evidence doesn't match (you have pictures of whole city leveled)... there would be western news all over the world calling on china to tell the truth.
but there's none, you know why? cuz any idiot can see that it was just some big chemical blast caused by an accident, and the statistics match up. it's highly reasonable.
it's not like a chinese 9/11 where buildings collapse and chinese news just goes "nope, no one died, no pictures allowed... nope.. nope..."
there's a very obvious difference which you guys seem to ignore.
you only concentrate on the "china" part.
if this happened in the USA, would the statistics sound ok? so... why not china? cuz they have a history of lying? lol.
the story of the child crying wolf comes to mind. and you guys are the villagers. and the child is china. there's nothing the child can say to make the villagers believe anything. because the villagers are ignorant fools that only believe what they want to believe.
reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 10,645
Thanked 2,191 Times in 1,131 Posts
I been to China and yes the death toll is most likely going to be less than 3k but no way less than 100. That number the media release is way out of wack. There are a few reason I can see why China want to downplay this.
1. China is celebrating the end of WW2 and they have chosen to display their strenght of military in Sept in Beijing. Tianjin is very close to Beijing so China want to downplay this as much as they can not to show any sign of weakness. Also in Oct is also their nation day. It seems fitting to downplay this accident.
2. winter olympics 2022 was just announced and Beijing will be the host city. With a such big disaster happen right after the announcement it might make other countries/tourist feel China is really unsafe. So the Chinese gov have to downplay it.
3. Also it seems like all the fireman who arrive first on the scene can't be found anywhere/ No news. There are rumors they call die. Those fireman alone is more than 30people at least. So saying the death total is only 50 seems like a lie.
4. It is still burning and there are dangerous chemical burning in the air. I doubt with such a big explosion and all the wreckage the Chinese gov actually swap the whole area for any death/bodies/injury.
5. There always have been corruption between China gov officials and business people. The way how these chemicals are store is 100% illegal and we aren't talking about a tiny place here, we are talking about tones and tones of dangerous chemical maybe several warehouse. How did this happen. Most likely the officials took brides and turn a blind eye. Or better yet the people who these chemicals have connections to the Chinese gov so no one dares to do anything.
In my personal experience when I go back to China, they tend to talk big or their good and outright downplay their bads. Just recently went on a trip with my gf to Yunnan and various part of China. All the media/pictures/talks was these places are really pretty/food was good/no pollution. Well turns out not really. Also from my experience with dealing with them daily they have also give me the same impression that they will never ever tell you the truth even if it is just something very simple.
Just like how my aunt does business in China. She got into a lawsuit with her partner. Thinking she knows one of the Higher rank China gov she will have the case win, not so much her partner knows someone who is more powerful in the gov. There wasn't even a trial. Basically she had the pay or she lost her business.
So Ulic I do not believe the numbers release by the Chinese media are true at all but I also don't think the death toll will be more than 300. I say around 150 to 180 seems more reasonable.
Last edited by Mr.HappySilp; 08-14-2015 at 05:46 PM.
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