Bad Tenants (Yet, another thread)

[i-vtecyo]

So im in a situation with a downstairs male tenant who I rented out a 2 bdrm suite to and been receiving complaints about noise, disturbances, and violent actions from neighbors and upstairs. Its been one month since I have rented the place out to him and on two separate occasions, he has already had two visits by police officers. I dont live at the location so I cannot monitor them, however I am in the process of talking to constable who attended the scene of the call two nights ago to gather more information.

In the beginning of this month, I noticed a mess in the backyard and I also was informed by upstairs about the first police incident. My brother spoke with the male tenant and he told my brother that the mess would be all gone within 3 days and that the disturbance with his "friends" won't happen again. On that same day, he also mentioned that his gf and his gf's daughter were going to move in. My family being generous at the time and didnt want to cause any trouble said its okay. We didnt increase the cost of rent and continued to cover for his electric and hydro bills.

Originally, it was suppose to be the male tenant and a "roommate", but it soon became the male tenant, his girl friend, his girlfriend's daughter and the daughter's boyfriend. On top of the large numbers of occupants residing there, and all the noise and acts of violence complaints, there are also other problems as well such as late night drinking until 3am with more than 3 people who arent leaving "peacefully" and indoor smoking.

So last morning, I received a text msg from the family upstairs about the second police visit so I decided to drop by. Upon my visit, the mess only started to grow and that there were unwashed clothes lying everywhere in the backyard which may potentially pose a safety and health hazard towards the family living upstairs and the other single lady living downstairs. In addition to that, the lock for the entrance to the suite has also been disassembled and the girlfriend's daughter would'nt give me much information about the police incident nor the lock. I've tried to contact the male tenant but it kept going straight to voice mail. So I decided to hand the gf's daughter the one month eviction notice with everything signed.

In the notice, the tenant has met more than one criteria with reasons to end tenancy within one month as they are not on a fixed term contract, but a monthly basis. The male tenant has also been very shady which he appears to be avoiding people. He also claimed that he was well behaved and mature during the time of the interview. I was stupid to not take extra precautions and do a thorough reference check as everything he said during the interview seemed genuine.

So my question is, during the next month, what should I look out for besides possible property dmg exceeding the dmg deposit? Depending on the lock situation, I may or may not give the deposit back. Also after some research, I believe that one month is the earliest that I can evict them since they've paid their rent on time? Because I would like to evict them sooner to avoid any more unnecessary violent actions and disturbances involving police visits.

[quasi]

Stories like these are exactly why I refuse to suite my basement and leave it almost empty. I have no advice on what you should do but I do wish the best of luck, I hope you get them out with minimal damage.

[Lomac]

Sweet. Free stuff!

[i-vtecyo]

Going to try to apply for an order to end early tenancy as most of these criteria have been met. Will be keeping this thread updated.

Ending a Tenancy Early

There are some circumstances when it’s necessary to end a tenancy as soon as possible – when waiting for a regular notice to take effect would be unreasonable or unfair. Applying for dispute resolution to end the tenancy early is required in these situations.

A landlord can apply for an order to end a tenancy without the usual notice if a tenant, (including their pets or guests) have done one of the following:

-Significantly interfered with or unreasonably disturbed another resident or the landlord
-Seriously endangered the safety, rights or interests of the landlord or another resident
-Engaged in illegal activity that has caused or could cause damage to the property, disturbed or threatened the security, safety or physical well-being of another resident, or endangered a lawful right or interest of another resident or the landlord
-Caused major damage to the property or put the landlord’s property at considerable risk

[4444]

once u've dealt with this guy stop being so soft.

do ALL reference and credit checks (if credit checks are a thing in canada for tenants).
NEVER go outside of the agreed upon terms. someone else needs to move in, amend the contract, and get all parties to sign.

renting property is a business, so act like a business person.

good luck getting this sorted out, this is the nightmare situation for rental property owners.

[Mr.HappySilp]

First thing that you should have done is not let anyone else lives in the suite that's not on the agreement. Is a strict no. 2nd you should not have gone soft. The second there is a noise complain or the police is inovled I would have kick him right out and end the tenancy early. My friend who rented out one of her bedroom in the apartment clearly states no smoking and drinking. One time this guy was smoking in the suite she basically took the cigs from him and throw it out and told him if she sees this shit again he is out of there.

If he isn't respecting you, then you don't have to respect him.

[Mr.Money]

....why is the lock removed?,fucking crackheads man.

[BoostedBB6]

This is why I will never rent anything.....there are so many situations like this. I have numerous friends dealing with this kind of crap.

#1 piece of advice I have ever seen, don't be nice. They have an agreement, they stick to it and everythings good, if not then they leave.

I hope they leave without to many issues, but judging by what you said/posted they may try and stay there and force you to go through the long and drawn out process to remove them.

[smoothie.]

good luck

follow the steps to evict asap

it can drag for months as they appeal, etc

*saw the month to month contract, that should help you get them out sooner

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by smoothie.

*saw the month to month contract, that should help you get them out sooner

i was under the impression that month to month makes things more difficult.

[frost91]

do you have everything documented on paper?
do you have police ref from when they visited?
taken pictures?

i have never applied for an order to end early tenancy, but in my opinion, from the looks of what they've done, it isn't enough. i usually use a mutual agreement to end tenancy, for my situation it's quicker.


as for your question, you can kiss your months rent and damage deposit good bye.

[meme405]

You've done what you can so far, just keep pursuing, and get evict them through the proper procedure.

Good luck on early eviction, it's not easy, but I think you have a good case for it. Just keep stressing the multiple police visits, and the other tenants in the same building.

As other above said, you HAVE to do all the checks, I know tons of people who can lie like a mattress and charm the pants off you, but are shitty people I would never rent a cardboard box to, let alone a house. Regardless of how sincere and well kept someone appears, you won't know till you phone their references.

Even with phoning references they can be withholding information of the people who might say bad about them. ALWAYS ask for specific people, their current employer, and 2 previous employers is a very good start, because they cannot fudge these. Personal references can easily be fudged with friends or family members.

[sdubfid]

His previous reference probably said he was a dream tenant in order to get rid of him

[melloman]

You definitely need to do your prep work.

Without reference checks (from work, previous landlords, and their own personal references) and credit checks if available, it's the only way to stop people like this from costing you money.

As people said before, this is a business you are running. You have a contract, make sure it is well written and thought out. Put in additional clauses as necessary, you have 3 units in 1 building, so you don't want people like this in there and making your other renters leave from inconvenience.

Unfortunately this is a "live and learn" kind of lesson. If you do go and try to evict early, I also suggest that you talked to them after the first police incident, they said it wouldn't happen again yet there were other complaints from the other tenants and a second police visit. This should help you leverage to get them out.

[i-vtecyo]

So I'm basically outta luck with getting him out sooner. Legally, the tenant has until December 31st to vacate. Even with the special conditions to end tenancy early act, it'll take until end of December to be approved. So since its nearly impossible to speak with him in person or on the phone, I gave him 2 options via text msg. End tenancy early under mutual agreement on Nov 30th at 1pm or pay another month's rent on the 1st of Dec. and vacate by December 31st, 1pm. Now if he chooses option 2, and doesn't pay rent by midnight, I can serve him the 10 day notice to evict him which will get him out sooner before Dec 31st.

[BoostedBB6]

Originally Posted by i-vtecyo

So I'm basically outta luck with getting him out sooner. Legally, the tenant has until December 31st to vacate. Even with the special conditions to end tenancy early act, it'll take until end of December to be approved. So since its nearly impossible to speak with him in person or on the phone, I gave him 2 options via text msg. End tenancy early under mutual agreement on Nov 30th at 1pm or pay another month's rent on the 1st of Dec. and vacate by December 31st, 1pm. Now if he chooses option 2, and doesn't pay rent by midnight, I can serve him the 10 day notice to evict him which will get him out sooner before Dec 31st.

You can serve him, but regardless of being served, there is no one who can make him leave.
This is where it begins to suck. A good friend had a lady do this for 7 months before they were able to get everything legal set up and she was removed from the home. Apparently she had done this to many people around the Vancouver area.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by i-vtecyo

So I'm basically outta luck with getting him out sooner. Legally, the tenant has until December 31st to vacate. Even with the special conditions to end tenancy early act, it'll take until end of December to be approved. So since its nearly impossible to speak with him in person or on the phone, I gave him 2 options via text msg. End tenancy early under mutual agreement on Nov 30th at 1pm or pay another month's rent on the 1st of Dec. and vacate by December 31st, 1pm. Now if he chooses option 2, and doesn't pay rent by midnight, I can serve him the 10 day notice to evict him which will get him out sooner before Dec 31st.

Don't have to serve the paperwork in person. Just go to the basement tape the paperwork on the door or take a pic of you putting the paperwork to the mailbox (when I did it I purchase the newspaper to show the date I serve it but you don't have to). You can also send register mail which will show when he sign for the mail. That's good enough as the paperwork is serve.

[i-vtecyo]

Originally Posted by BoostedBB6

You can serve him, but regardless of being served, there is no one who can make him leave.
This is where it begins to suck. A good friend had a lady do this for 7 months before they were able to get everything legal set up and she was removed from the home. Apparently she had done this to many people around the Vancouver area.

Jesus.. Did ur your friend take the lady to small courts claim and claim for their losses? From my understanding and research, only a bailiff firm with a contract can remove a tenant from the property and the expenses and cost to hire one can be recovered thru the dispute resolution center and small court claims.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by i-vtecyo

Jesus.. Did ur your friend take the lady to small courts claim and claim for their losses? From my understanding and research, only a bailiff firm with a contract can remove a tenant from the property and the expenses and cost to hire one can be recovered thru the dispute resolution center and small court claims.

Make friends with who are bailiff and have them evict and buy them beer after.

[BoostedBB6]

Originally Posted by i-vtecyo

Jesus.. Did ur your friend take the lady to small courts claim and claim for their losses? From my understanding and research, only a bailiff firm with a contract can remove a tenant from the property and the expenses and cost to hire one can be recovered thru the dispute resolution center and small court claims.

She could have tried, but the lady had nothing to take. You can get papers served to these people for recovering costs, but you can bet that if there not going to pay rent you will never see any of the monies they owe afterwards.

Its a rather backwards system when as a home owner you can not have people removed from your home without jumping through many hoops and paying a lot of money. I hope this guy does not cause to much trouble for you outside of what hes already done.

[Harvey Specter]

I own a few rental properties and I've had to evict people, it's a BS process and BC Tenancy always sides with tenants. Here's my suggestion;

1. Give proper notices, 10 day notice for not paying rent and than follow up with a 30 day notice. Upon giving the 10 day notice you have to get the proof of service signed by the tenant, this is important because if you don't get this signed your notice is be invalid. Also make sure you have the tenancy agreement and make sure it's filled out properly, signed and dated.

2. Once notice is issued, the tenant will have a chance to dispute the notice. If your tenant is smart, they will dispute this notice so they can buy more time.

3. Never leave notices on the door, ALWAYS send them via registered mail. BC Tenancy will NOT accept notices been left on the door, trust me I know.

4. Also keep in mind, if the cops come by and you issue notices in the presence of the police that DOES NOT warrant a witness. Some people issue notices when the cops are on the property and will try to use them as witnesses, the police will not become witnesses and you can't use them as a witness on the proof of service notice.

5. Once you issued the notices you'll have to wait and see what your tenant does. If he/she knows to play the system then you're in trouble. The dispute process is long and BC Tenancy will always side with the tenant.

6. If the tenant ignores your notices and doesn't pay you must go to BC Tenancy and request a dispute resolution hearing. They will ask for all the notices and agreements, they will then give you a date for an over the phone dispute resolution. They will provide you documents that you have to give your tenant, again you must send this document via registered mail. Do not leave it on the door.

7. The dispute resolution hearing date is anywhere from a month or two. You can't do anything during this wait even if the tenant is not paying rent.

8. During the dispute resolution hearing, you'll have a chance to tell your side of the story to the arbitrator. If they side with you then you'll be giving a "Order of Possession".

9. Order of possession does not give you the legal right to psychically evict the person. This must be done via a court appointed bailiff which costs a few bucks and takes some time. Some people get 3rd party bailiffs who have no legal standing who go by and try to scare the tenants, I personally wouldn't recommend this because if the tenant is smart they might figure out you sent a "fake" bailiff and make your life a living hell.

The process of evicting people is awful. BC tenancy is setup to protect tenants and not landlords. The process is long and the outcome is usually not in the favor of the landlord. What I've learned is try to keep a cooler head and try to make a deal with the bad tenant to get them out. Even if you lose a months rent so be it because honestly if you go through the legal process it will cost you more in lost rent and possible damage to your property.

[frost91]

i deal with tenants like this everyday. the simple solution is to offer him money to leave. there's a few things i would of done differently in your case to have him removed. i usually like to solve things without going to the residential tenancy branch.

if it gets to the point where you have to hire a bailiff, you will be out a few thousand dollars. it cost about $1000 +/- to have a bailiff show up

[i-vtecyo]

Maybe in the future, they'll stricken up the rules. Only a matter of time before all the "horrible" tenants figure out how to take advantage of this system. Its such bs.. Ty harvey for the advice, I will be following those steps.

What things would you have done? can you give me some suggestions? Thanks frost91

[frost91]

offer him money to leave (right away) with a mutual agreement to end tenancy, on the condition he only gets to receive the money after all his shit is packed up and out of the unit.

on the leaving day, make sure you call the police non-emergency line and tell them your situation and what you are doing. you need to make sure you have all the detailed documents, who,what, when, where, and why he is leaving in case you need to call the police if anything arises. i also hope you kept all the reference numbers for when the police showed up at the unit.

have a new lock ready to be put on as soon as hes gone.


everything harvey spector said is true, but if you go that route your going to be a lot of money and its probably going to take around 3 months

[PeanutButter]

Originally Posted by Harvey Specter

I own a few rental properties and I've had to evict people, it's a BS process and BC Tenancy always sides with tenants. Here's my suggestion;

1. Give proper notices, 10 day notice for not paying rent and than follow up with a 30 day notice. Upon giving the 10 day notice you have to get the proof of service signed by the tenant, this is important because if you don't get this signed your notice is be invalid. Also make sure you have the tenancy agreement and make sure it's filled out properly, signed and dated.

2. Once notice is issued, the tenant will have a chance to dispute the notice. If your tenant is smart, they will dispute this notice so they can buy more time.

3. Never leave notices on the door, ALWAYS send them via registered mail. BC Tenancy will NOT accept notices been left on the door, trust me I know.

4. Also keep in mind, if the cops come by and you issue notices in the presence of the police that DOES NOT warrant a witness. Some people issue notices when the cops are on the property and will try to use them as witnesses, the police will not become witnesses and you can't use them as a witness on the proof of service notice.

5. Once you issued the notices you'll have to wait and see what your tenant does. If he/she knows to play the system then you're in trouble. The dispute process is long and BC Tenancy will always side with the tenant.

6. If the tenant ignores your notices and doesn't pay you must go to BC Tenancy and request a dispute resolution hearing. They will ask for all the notices and agreements, they will then give you a date for an over the phone dispute resolution. They will provide you documents that you have to give your tenant, again you must send this document via registered mail. Do not leave it on the door.

7. The dispute resolution hearing date is anywhere from a month or two. You can't do anything during this wait even if the tenant is not paying rent.

8. During the dispute resolution hearing, you'll have a chance to tell your side of the story to the arbitrator. If they side with you then you'll be giving a "Order of Possession".

9. Order of possession does not give you the legal right to psychically evict the person. This must be done via a court appointed bailiff which costs a few bucks and takes some time. Some people get 3rd party bailiffs who have no legal standing who go by and try to scare the tenants, I personally wouldn't recommend this because if the tenant is smart they might figure out you sent a "fake" bailiff and make your life a living hell.

The process of evicting people is awful. BC tenancy is setup to protect tenants and not landlords. The process is long and the outcome is usually not in the favor of the landlord. What I've learned is try to keep a cooler head and try to make a deal with the bad tenant to get them out. Even if you lose a months rent so be it because honestly if you go through the legal process it will cost you more in lost rent and possible damage to your property.

My cousin is a property manager for a huge management company. I always asked him about evicting people and he said it is very easy.
he said it takes him max two weeks to physically get the person out of the house.

I'll ask him when he comes back from Europe, but from what I recall he said the day after the tenant doesn't pay, you put a notice on the door, 5 days after that, if they don't pay, you file a specific report with the city, you get a bailiff and you enter the home with them and they physically take all of the items in the house and you put it on the edge of the property line, then you change the locks.

I always asked him about the horror stories of people not paying and you losing one or two months rent. edit: He told me these people don't know how to properly file the reports and get people out. He said it is quite easy to get someone out if they don't pay. There should be no reason why it would take longer than a couple weeks to get these people out.

He said he has evicted many people and he's never lost more than 1 months rent, and that is rare he said. They're usually out in two weeks max.