Yet Another English v. Mandarin Language War in Richmond...

[Jmac]

Originally Posted by Carl Johnson

You come off as someone who is grossly patronizing, almost xenophobia, by your swearing and cursing. By the many "thanks" condoning your post, it obviously shows the demographic and education level of this forum.

Now, you say this isn't their "country", but is this country yours? Wasn't the land we are all occupying now belonged to the Indigenous people? Did we really respect those people's culture, language, and property rights and not treat those people with any discrimination?

Here is a quote from Wikipedia on Duncan Campbell Scott who was the guy running the Department of Indian Affairs for almost 20 years:

"In 1920, under Scott's direction, and with the concurrence of the major religions involved in native education, an amendment to the Indian Act made it mandatory for all native children between the ages of seven and fifteen to attend school. Attendance at a residential school was made compulsory. Although a reading of Bill 14 states that no particular kind of school was stipulated. Scott was in favour of residential schooling for aboriginal children, as he believed removing them from the influences of home and reserve would hasten the cultural and economic transformation of the whole aboriginal population. In cases where a residential school was the only kind available, residential enrollment did become mandatory, and aboriginal children were compelled to leave their homes, their families and their culture, with or without their parents' consent. However, in 1901, 226 of the 290 Indian schools across Canada were day schools, and by 1961, the 377 day schools far outnumbered the 56 residential institutions."

I guess it is okay for a white man treat others with disdain but not the other around for the Chinese now. By the way, I am not in agreement with all the improper decorum displayed by the Chinese in case you are wondering. However, the saying "what goes around, comes around" comes to my mind.

In addition to what flip said, in what way is the residential school issue of 100 years ago remotely relevant?

Is anyone saying they can't speak Mandarin? That Canada should systemically eliminate their culture?

No, they're saying that they should speak English (or English and Mandarin) at a strata council meeting so that strata members who only speak the predominantly official language of Canada can actually understand what is happening with the property that they, you know, own.

[FerrariEnzo]

So.. Mao thinks that having a meeting in chinese to discuss financial meetings of the strata is fine and leaving non-chinese speaking people out of the loop is Not Discriminating.... WTF is he smoking.... If I was paying strata fee, I Would want to know where my money is going... if they are going to cut budget, then Im going to pay less...

[yray]

Canada should be speaking cantonese right? the chinese essentially built the railway connecting the nation.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by yray

Canada should be speaking cantonese right? the chinese essentially built the railway connecting the nation.

Well, if you want to be technical we should all be speaking Toisan, since that was the dialect most of the Chinese immigrants at the time spoke.

But hilarious the Strata guy is named Mao..."overthrowing" previous strata members

[radioman]

Sounds like my strata in Burnaby.

Every notice has dual language for english/chinese. But the english part is maybe 3-4 sentences and the chinese part takes over the rest of that page.

Not sure if missing information or chinese font too big

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by fliptuner

^^^ I hope you realize that he's Chinese and most of the people that agree with his sentiment either weren't born here or are children of immigrants. Immigrants that for the most part, didn't take for granted that they were allowed into this country and given the opportunity for a better future for themselves and their children. In return and out of appreciation for that opportunity, the least they could do is live harmoniously with the people who were already here, by being able to communicate with them in the acceptable language.

I agree that it isn't their country not because we don't accept them...... because they don't accept us.

This...

Originally Posted by Jmac

In addition to what flip said, in what way is the residential school issue of 100 years ago remotely relevant?

Is anyone saying they can't speak Mandarin? That Canada should systemically eliminate their culture?

No, they're saying that they should speak English (or English and Mandarin) at a strata council meeting so that strata members who only speak the predominantly official language of Canada can actually understand what is happening with the property that they, you know, own.

...and this.

It's kinda funny when people claim someone is being racist or xenophobic when the person being charged with it is, in fact, of the same race they are making fun of. A large portion of members on this website are either immigrants or the children of immigrants. Hell, I'm white and even I'm technically a first generation Canadian. I've made fun of my (other white) family members when the first came to Canada because they didn't speak English, despite the fact that they had ample opportunity to learn it in Europe.

Originally Posted by Carl Johnson

You come off as someone who is grossly patronizing, almost xenophobia, by your swearing and cursing. By the many "thanks" condoning your post, it obviously shows the demographic and education level of this forum.

Now, you say this isn't their "country", but is this country yours? Wasn't the land we are all occupying now belonged to the Indigenous people? Did we really respect those people's culture, language, and property rights and not treat those people with any discrimination?

Here is a quote from Wikipedia on Duncan Campbell Scott who was the guy running the Department of Indian Affairs for almost 20 years:

"In 1920, under Scott's direction, and with the concurrence of the major religions involved in native education, an amendment to the Indian Act made it mandatory for all native children between the ages of seven and fifteen to attend school. Attendance at a residential school was made compulsory. Although a reading of Bill 14 states that no particular kind of school was stipulated. Scott was in favour of residential schooling for aboriginal children, as he believed removing them from the influences of home and reserve would hasten the cultural and economic transformation of the whole aboriginal population. In cases where a residential school was the only kind available, residential enrollment did become mandatory, and aboriginal children were compelled to leave their homes, their families and their culture, with or without their parents' consent. However, in 1901, 226 of the 290 Indian schools across Canada were day schools, and by 1961, the 377 day schools far outnumbered the 56 residential institutions."

I guess it is okay for a white man treat others with disdain but not the other around for the Chinese now. By the way, I am not in agreement with all the improper decorum displayed by the Chinese in case you are wondering. However, the saying "what goes around, comes around" comes to my mind.

So, as a German descendent, I should be apologizing for WW1, WW2 and the Holocaust? Should I also be apologizing for VW's diesel mishap?

Or, as someone of Jewish descent, should I be apologizing for crucifying Jesus?

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by Lomac

Should I also be apologizing for VW's diesel mishap??

Apology accepted but I still want $$$$ for loss of value.

Working for a company that employs a lot of chinese speaking people, all our meetings are held in english, well some form of english.

I side with the strata. My ears are bleeding. Make it stop.

[jing]

Mao, huh? Sounds a lot like this guy.

[fliptuner]

Originally Posted by Lomac

So, as a German descendent, I should be apologizing for WW1, WW2 and the Holocaust? Should I also be apologizing for VW's diesel mishap?

Yes and don't even think of living in a house with a fireplace.

[Lomac]

Originally Posted by fliptuner

Yes and don't even think of living in a house with a fireplace.

How about a shower?

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by Lomac

So, as a German descendent, I should be apologizing for WW1, WW2 and the Holocaust? Should I also be apologizing for VW's diesel mishap?

we'll accept the apology if german pr0n stars to follow this route

Japanese P*rn Star Offers to Have Sex with Chinese Students to Make Up for 1937 Invasion | BroBible

[Sid Vicious]

Originally Posted by Carl Johnson

dribble

and cue the PC brigade

pretty soon no discussion which remotely involves race, gender or orientation will be allowed due to people getting accused of racism, homophobia or whatever

and of course manic liked this post LMAO, we should create a forum designated safe space for you guys

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by yray

Canada should be speaking cantonese right? the chinese essentially built the railway connecting the nation.

am i the only one that had this come to mind in the above pic?

Spoiler!

[fliptuner]

Originally Posted by Lomac

How about a shower?

Would it be heated with gas?

[Mr.HappySilp]

One of the tech support was complaining that yesterday a person in his mid 20s (at least he sound pretty young over the phone) couldn't understand a simple troubleshooting step (he was ask to unplug the power to his router and plug it back in after 15seconds). Anyways he complains he can't understand and keep saying no english chinese only. He was getting nowhere and said Your company sucks and hung up. I call him back give him instructions in Chinese. Afterwards explain kindly to him this is Canada and the English is the primary language so we might not have Chinese speaking staff on all the time. He flip out and said Chinese is more important than English and we should hire people who can speaks Chinese first @@

[Lomac]

Should have started speaking French to him to really piss him off.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

He flip out and said Chinese is more important than English and we should hire people who can speaks Chinese first @@

Originally Posted by Lomac

Should have started speaking French to him to really piss him off.

Better yet, if he speaks Mandarin, have someone start yapping at him in Cantonese and then get pissed back at him for speaking the wrong kind of Chinese

[punkwax]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

One of the tech support was complaining that yesterday a person in his mid 20s (at least he sound pretty young over the phone) couldn't understand a simple troubleshooting step (he was ask to unplug the power to his router and plug it back in after 15seconds). Anyways he complains he can't understand and keep saying no english chinese only. He was getting nowhere and said Your company sucks and hung up. I call him back give him instructions in Chinese. Afterwards explain kindly to him this is Canada and the English is the primary language so we might not have Chinese speaking staff on all the time. He flip out and said Chinese is more important than English and we should hire people who can speaks Chinese first @@

Ya well.. some people are just idiots. Plain and simple. I've met idiots of all different colour. I've also met awesome people of all different colour.

I don't have a problem with race, I have a problem with stupidity. Having a strata in Richmond, BC, Canada that does not accommodate English speaking members of the strata is stupid.

[Soundy]

The new council was largely formed in 2014 after one Chinese member gathered a large number of proxy ballots to vote out the non-Mandarin speaking council members, contended Kargut.

I'm kinda surprised more attention isn't being given to this part of it. This may be "legal" but it sure smells hinky. I've previously been on a strata council for a complex that had several Asian/ESL owners - most of them never attended the AGM and those who did never spoke up... probably similar to the English-speaking guy in this case, not really able to follow or understand what was going on.

So imagine this one Mandarin-speaking person goes around to all the other Chinese owners, who really don't and CAN'T follow what's going on with council... feeds them just about any kind of BS to get their proxy votes - how terrible the current council is, how money is being wasted, etc. or even BSing them outright as to what they're signing over - and then hits up the meeting and makes his power play.

I doubt anyone here would have a hard time believing this could have happened... all proper and legal.

[MeowMeow]

My strata had some what similar issue years back where all the white strata councils either quit or got voted out. It wasnt because of language barrier though, it was about some roof job issue. According to the strata notice, there were some nasty verbal attacks involved as well. Thankfully all the new and old Chinese strata members speak fluent English, they still send notices in both perfect English + Mandarin, and they are doing a great job maintaining our complex and listening to concerns. But it is quite sad how some of the non-Chinese members decided to move out and our complex became some what hostile after all the fobs that dont even make eye contact moved in. One fob unit (who bought the property for investment) left garbage in their house for weeks after partying which caused a huge mouse infestation problem >

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by MeowMeow

One fob unit (who bought the property for investment) left garbage in their house for weeks after partying which caused a huge mouse infestation problem >

Was a international student that live in it?

[Traum]

So, the saga (gong show) continues...

Richmond man against Mandarin-only council meetings wants official languages law

VANCOUVER - A Richmond man who filed a human rights complaint against his townhouse council for conducting Mandarin-only meetings says he wants the law changed to prohibit the use of unofficial languages.

Andreas Kargut lives in a 54-unit townhouse complex in Richmond, where he served on various council positions between 2005 and 2014.

Kargut says he and six other residents filed a complaint with the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal in December because they couldn't participate in a Mandarin-only meeting that lasted 90 minutes.

He says he was vice-president during his last year on the council but was ousted by a group that wanted to conduct meetings only in Chinese.

The respondents of the complaint have until March 23 to decide if they want a settlement meeting or they must provide evidence to have the matter dismissed before a hearing date is set if they don't take action.

Kargut says the council has now decided to conduct future meetings in English, but he wants compensation because his rights were violated and he will push the province to change the law on how councils conduct business.

Now people are just gonna say this guy was doing it out of spite because he got ousted from strata, and for personal gains b/c he is asking for compensation.

[GLOW]

had to ask for compensation...

[Traum]

If anyone cares... the gong show is apparently still on:

Richmond strata meetings revert back to Chinese language only | Vancouver Sun

Richmond townhouse strata meetings revert back to Chinese-language-only amid human rights dispute

Published on: September 2, 2016 | Last Updated: September 2, 2016 1:29 PM PDT

A Richmond homeowner who launched a human rights complaint over the controversial Mandarin-only strata meetings held at his townhouse complex says council has reverted back to Chinese after a brief stint with a translator.

Andreas Kargut also claims he is being harassed by members of council, and feels like he is being pressured to leave his home.

Kargut and six other residents filed a class-action complaint with the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal in December because they couldn’t participate in a 90-minute meeting where only Mandarin was spoken at their 54-unit townhouse complex. They claim they are being discriminated against by the new strata council elected in the summer of 2015.

Lawyers and residents held a pre-settlement meeting in July, and although Kargut said he cannot disclose details of that meeting, he believed the matter may have been resolved.

Three subsequent meetings were held in English with a Mandarin translator, he said, following the human rights complaint and intervention from local MLA Linda Reid.


Then, Kargut claims that a notice was posted in the mailroom on July 27 saying that a settlement had been reached before any members of the human rights complaint had signed.

“The language (in the notice) was highly inflammatory,” he said, adding that it informed residents that while the dispute was settled it was going to cost everyone money.

At the Strata AGM last month, Kargut said members voted to overturn the use of a translator and revert back to Chinese-language-only meetings.

Since then, Kargut claims he has been harassed in a message posted to his Go Fund Me site, which he started to help raise funds for his legal defence. In one message, the person claims Kargut and the other residents bullied the non-English speaking owners.

Kargut said he was vice-president during his last year on the council but was ousted by a group that wanted to conduct meetings only in the Chinese language.

With the human rights complaint, he is hoping to have laws changed so that only French or English can be spoken at council meetings to prevent similar problems elsewhere.

Mary Zhang, president of the Strata council, declined an interview but issued a press statement Friday. She said at the AGM six owners held 25 proxies, and all voted independently. She said the majority of owners in the building speak Mandarin as a first language.

“Some members have basic English skills, but that does not mean they understand complex English or feel comfortable with language at the speed of a typical conversation,” she said, in the statement.

When the new council took over last year, she said they were more comfortable speaking in Mandarin.

She said the previous councils conducted meeting solely in English for more than a decade without any accommodation for the owners who do not speak English, and that Mandarin-speaking owners were excluded from understanding how the previous council was managing the Strata.

She said Kargut wants to have all meetings in English even when there are no English-speaking observers present at the meetings, which is “is completely unrealistic and would ignore the identity of this community. ”

From the looks of it, I'd say that at this point, both sides have clearly turned the issue into a highly personal one when it is totally unnecessary to do so. From the Kargut dude, there is no need to insist all strata meetings to be conducted in English if there are no English speaking people there. For the strata, they should have known better than to revert back to speaking Mandarin for the strata meetings when there are English speaking folks around.

[320icar]

Fucking idiots. I understand both sides, but being Caucasian I side more with the dude.