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Old 09-06-2016, 11:53 PM   #76
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Why the fuck can't someone with a passable knowledge of English from within the council translate and save the money on it? Or are they that defensive about conducting Chinese-only meetings that they would rather let this joke keep going as a means of controlling the strata budget?
Exactly this. Surely there's at least one person on the strata who is capable of translating between the two languages.
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Old 09-06-2016, 11:59 PM   #77
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Exactly this. Surely there's at least one person on the strata who is capable of translating between the two languages.
But why bother translating if everyone at the meetings prefers to have the meeting conducted in Mandarin?

"the council voted to use a translator in instances where non-Mandarin speakers were present at meetings, but that council had voted down using a translator at meetings where all in attendance spoke Mandarin."
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Old 09-09-2016, 02:19 PM   #78
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@parm104:

I do not have a problem with people speaking their language, writing in their language and annexing themselves. My problem comes into play when an immigrant comes here, and wants to conduct his business all in another language and wants US to accommodate him.

Your retail example is a relate-able one. An easy example is: Mandarin only speaker goes to Costco, and demands that someone who speaks Mandarin come and help him because he does not speak English. We don't have to, why can't you go learn simple English so that you can speak our National language? Why must we constantly be accommodating? Just shows the arrogance and disrespect because they don't care to put forth effort to try and even learn to communicate with anyone who speaks English.

Your quote from above is applicable, where they say a translator will be present at the meetings where non-Mandarin speakers are involved. Does that mean that a translator is hired for every meeting, and if only Mandarin speakers are present he goes home? Do I have to RSVP that I'm coming to a meeting at my own strata?

I should not have to RSVP to each and every meeting just so they can schedule a translator, and what if no translator can attend? Will all the meeting minutes be in English aswell? How can I sell my property being English only speaking if half the minutes are in Mandarin? Why must I then translate all the minutes on my own time?

The issue isn't a hard one, and most people relate it to common courtesy or respect.
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@parm104:

I do not have a problem with people speaking their language, writing in their language and annexing themselves. My problem comes into play when an immigrant comes here, and wants to conduct his business all in another language and wants US to accommodate him.

Your retail example is a relate-able one. An easy example is: Mandarin only speaker goes to Costco, and demands that someone who speaks Mandarin come and help him because he does not speak English. We don't have to, why can't you go learn simple English so that you can speak our National language? Why must we constantly be accommodating? Just shows the arrogance and disrespect because they don't care to put forth effort to try and even learn to communicate with anyone who speaks English.

Your quote from above is applicable, where they say a translator will be present at the meetings where non-Mandarin speakers are involved. Does that mean that a translator is hired for every meeting, and if only Mandarin speakers are present he goes home? Do I have to RSVP that I'm coming to a meeting at my own strata?

I should not have to RSVP to each and every meeting just so they can schedule a translator, and what if no translator can attend? Will all the meeting minutes be in English aswell? How can I sell my property being English only speaking if half the minutes are in Mandarin? Why must I then translate all the minutes on my own time?

The issue isn't a hard one, and most people relate it to common courtesy or respect.
In our Strata, the minutes are in English and Chinese.
Our Strata is made up of 1 Mexican immigrant, 1 Italian immigrant, 1 China immigrant, 1 canadian born daughter of Italian immigrant, 2 caucasians.
When I was part of strata, my ears would bleed and the meetings took extra long to try to explain in english to the 3 english not a first language people.

So while I see your point about the mainlanders not conducting the meeting in english, the same can be said if they decide to hold the meeting in French. How MANY can say they will fully understand and be able to communicate.
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Old 09-09-2016, 02:41 PM   #80
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What I find most interesting is the talk about teaching Mandarin in some Richmond schools.

I don't get it. Don't they get enough of it at hone? I mean if you want them to learn English, why confuse matters more by teaching them something they already kind of know?

They should be getting double the English classes. As for learning their own culture......... hmmmmmm........... learn the culture of this country seems to be more important, yes?

And, if you really want your kids to learn Mandarin, there's a thing called after school classes. Pay for it yourselves. Don't spend valuable resources from what little the public school system gets.

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Old 09-09-2016, 03:43 PM   #81
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Are you serious? I went to RHS and we had a plethora of elective language classes. Of course 99% of the Chinese kids took Mandarin. Like, why wouldn't you for an easy a+.

Anyways. That's bullshit
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Old 09-09-2016, 04:29 PM   #82
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@parm104:

I do not have a problem with people speaking their language, writing in their language and annexing themselves. My problem comes into play when an immigrant comes here, and wants to conduct his business all in another language and wants US to accommodate him.

Your retail example is a relate-able one. An easy example is: Mandarin only speaker goes to Costco, and demands that someone who speaks Mandarin come and help him because he does not speak English.
I'm fully on board with you on that front. A consumer, immigrant or not, shouldn't have any sense of entitlement to a translator when he or she goes shopping in our cities. Granted, I'm not submersed in the East Asian community enough to know the ins and outs and the habits and traits of immigrants coming from China. To be honest, I don't even know the difference between "Mainlanders" and other Asians. I'm ignorant to that world because I'm not in a day to day interaction with any of them. If you're saying that there are tendencies for certain immigrants to be rude I can imagine having to deal with that level of arrogance.

That being said, a CONSUMER shouldn't feel entitled to be spoken to any particular language but a private business owner should be entitled to operate under any language they see fit. We often get confused I think into thinking we have an official language across the nation. We have official government languages but that's it. Languages that are equal under the law but anything else dealing with language preferences is merely a personal choice.
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Old 09-09-2016, 04:36 PM   #83
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As a 4th generation Chinese-Canadian, it's upsetting and embarrassing how much entitlement many of these mainlanders think they have when they live here. One of my coworkers got yelled at by a Chinese man once because (despite speaking Canto) she did not speak any mandarin.

Apparently one his insults were along the lines of "Why do you work here if you don't know how to speak Mandarin?". These sort of people have absolutely no appreciation of where they are living. They simply see Metro Van as a safe haven from Communism where they can flaunt their wealth without due care of any of the real Canadians that were born and/or raised here.
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Old 09-09-2016, 06:14 PM   #84
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I grew up amongst the 3rd and 4th generation Canadians of Chinese ancestry (Strathcona, what can I say?) and it's sad to see all their fathers and forfathers' hard work in getting Caucasians to respect them go down the tube.

Below was going to be part of my sig, but decided against it...........

"Gululu and friends, making the rest of Canada despise the Chinese, one post at a time."

But, there is always hope.......
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Old 09-10-2016, 11:14 AM   #85
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As a 4th generation Chinese-Canadian, it's upsetting and embarrassing how much entitlement many of these mainlanders think they have when they live here. One of my coworkers got yelled at by a Chinese man once because (despite speaking Canto) she did not speak any mandarin.

Apparently one his insults were along the lines of "Why do you work here if you don't know how to speak Mandarin?". These sort of people have absolutely no appreciation of where they are living. They simply see Metro Van as a safe haven from Communism where they can flaunt their wealth without due care of any of the real Canadians that were born and/or raised here.
happen to me once too, i just insulted the mainlander back in mando

she then said she was going to get me fired, my supervisor asked me why i was so loud and i simply told her that its normal, that how some chinese ppl talk as she couldn't hear me right lol

then my supervisor said "dont get me started on loud talking asians"
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Old 09-11-2016, 08:25 PM   #86
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IMO, there's a big difference between a retail shop choosing to either display or have their staff use a certain language vs a strata council.

A retail store should be able to display whatever they want, and capitalism will work out the rest. Your transactions with them are completely voluntary.

A strata council is different because they're making changes and decisions that will directly affect you, and it is not a matter of voluntary consent. Anything that will result in a forced transaction (law or by-law), whether it will make you responsible, or whether your input would make someone else responsible, should be communicated in the primary language of the country.
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As a 4th generation Chinese-Canadian, it's upsetting and embarrassing how much entitlement many of these mainlanders think they have when they live here. One of my coworkers got yelled at by a Chinese man once because (despite speaking Canto) she did not speak any mandarin.

Apparently one his insults were along the lines of "Why do you work here if you don't know how to speak Mandarin?". These sort of people have absolutely no appreciation of where they are living. They simply see Metro Van as a safe haven from Communism where they can flaunt their wealth without due care of any of the real Canadians that were born and/or raised here.
A co-worker of mine was berated by a main-lander because

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Old 09-12-2016, 10:37 AM   #88
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I grew up amongst the 3rd and 4th generation Canadians of Chinese ancestry (Strathcona, what can I say?) and it's sad to see all their fathers and forfathers' hard work in getting Caucasians to respect them go down the tube.
Maybe it's my age talking, but I feel that those who are Canadian, regardless of their color are being seen as a seperate entity compared to the mainlanders. Like how my redneck asian friends in Cloverdale tried to seperate themselves from the generation of "hongers" who came over in the 90's. Or like how I tried to seperate myself from the Jersey shore guidos, only to find that us Italians are a ridiculous people to start with.

It's like how there are Mexican-Americans who support Trump for president. They are now American citizens and part of the culture, and now have something to lose. In our own back yard, I'm surprised to see that it isn't the gwai lo who are causing the gentrification of Chinatown, but the children of the first generation of the "great leap forward" era. They have no ties to ancient chinese culture.

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Old 09-12-2016, 12:51 PM   #89
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Maybe it's my age talking, but I feel that those who are Canadian, regardless of their color are being seen as a seperate entity compared to the mainlanders.
No, has nothing to do with your age.
There has always been some hate towards mainlanders.
You only see it now because they are here.

Up until the past 20 years, mainlanders were all poor.
Most with little to no education as they had to work at a young age.
But this growing up poor also plays into their ethics.
Human lives are plentiful and resources are limited so it's all about survival of the fittest.
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Old 09-12-2016, 04:01 PM   #90
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What I find most interesting is the talk about teaching Mandarin in some Richmond schools.

I don't get it. Don't they get enough of it at hone? I mean if you want them to learn English, why confuse matters more by teaching them something they already kind of know?

They should be getting double the English classes. As for learning their own culture......... hmmmmmm........... learn the culture of this country seems to be more important, yes?

And, if you really want your kids to learn Mandarin, there's a thing called after school classes. Pay for it yourselves. Don't spend valuable resources from what little the public school system gets.

/rant
Like it or not the education system is designed to prepare kids to become contributing members of society. Mandarin language proficiency has become and will increasingly be a major benefit to anyone in almost any field. If Brazil or whatever was becoming the a major player in world economics you'd be saying the exact same about that weird fucking version of Portuguese they speak.

Get the fuck outta here with your essentially xenophobic moral stand.

Besides it's fucking high-school level. You won't be able to learn shit in that environment over two years while also getting high and chasing ass. Irregardless, an introduction to another language is a good thing for anyone.

/Rant

Just to add to the actual debate, IMO I feel like high-school level CompSci should either become a compulsory subject or at the very least be an option to replace a language skill.
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Old 09-12-2016, 05:28 PM   #91
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Get the fuck outta here with your essentially xenophobic moral stand.
That helped your post a lot.
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Get the fuck outta here with your essentially xenophobic moral stand.
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That helped your post a lot.
My argument follows along the actual pedagogical reasoning of second language in schools. The current methodology that was created over about a thousand years of history.

In contrast your entire post is non sequitur. There's no argument, no logical plot or conclusion. Just nothing at all. A simple minded jab at the concept of a second language.

You want to live in a globalized world and enjoy the fruits of unheard of levels of consumerism then this is what is needed to prepare our nations youth and in contrast the future of the country for this world.

Bring on the fails, but this type of conversation is why some circles view the local Canadian populace lazy, unambitious and entitled.
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My argument follows along the actual pedagogical reasoning of second language in schools. The current methodology that was created over about a thousand years of history.

In contrast your entire post is non sequitur. There's no argument, no logical plot or conclusion. Just nothing at all. A simple minded jab at the concept of a second language.

You want to live in a globalized world and enjoy the fruits of unheard of levels of consumerism then this is what is needed to prepare our nations youth and in contrast the future of the country for this world.

Bring on the fails, but this type of conversation is why some circles view the local Canadian populace lazy, unambitious and entitled.
What'd you just stumble onto Thesaurus.com? Take it easy.

MG1 makes a valid point, English and French are Canada's official languages, those should be the primary languages taught in schools. Sure if you want to take a japanese or spanish, or madarin class go for it, but it comes at the expense of one of your elective blocks.

This coming from someone who speaks three languages, English (because canada duh), French (Because I was in french immersion for school), and Farsi (through home use). There was no need for me to be taught Farsi in school, I picked it up at home from a young age with no problems.
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What'd you just stumble onto Thesaurus.com? Take it easy.

English and French are Canada's official languages,
What does this mean to people here? To be an official language...An official language of what? For whom?

I think people often misconstrue what it means to be Canada's "official languages."
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What'd you just stumble onto Thesaurus.com? Take it easy.

MG1 makes a valid point, English and French are Canada's official languages, those should be the primary languages taught in schools. Sure if you want to take a japanese or spanish, or madarin class go for it, but it comes at the expense of one of your elective blocks.

This coming from someone who speaks three languages, English (because canada duh), French (Because I was in french immersion for school), and Farsi (through home use). There was no need for me to be taught Farsi in school, I picked it up at home from a young age with no problems.
Sorry that was too difficult for you to understand but that those are considered basic usages for the people actually making decisions about our education system. You know, those people that actually went to school and specifically studied and constantly apply their knowledge to these topics. It is pretty typical to use specific language while debating specific topics. Google is an excellent resource and it's not difficult to look things up.

Study of different languages outside of our official languages is important for a ton of different reasons outside of filling in government forms. Canada is not some backwater closed door economy as the general discussion on RS seems to infer. We participate internationally where other languages are used and a basic introduction to these other languages has never hurt anyone.
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:47 PM   #97
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@ Bananana - I honestly have no idea what you are talking about, you're point is so unclear. Are you saying schooling in richmond should be conducted in Mandarin because that's the language they all speak? or because it's the language of the future? I genuinely have no clue what the fuck you are trying to prove here. So it's pretty hard for me to have an intelligent conversation with someone who is typing like they just got finished hotboxing their mom's minivan.

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What does this mean to people here? To be an official language...An official language of what? For whom?

I think people often misconstrue what it means to be Canada's "official languages."
Actually it's not confusing at all, and it's only open to misconception based on an individuals own ignorance or stupidity.

The Official Languages Act is a Canadian law; it gives French and English equal rights in Canada and makes them the preferred language over all others. There is a few other laws which also govern languages but The Official Languages Act is the legislative keystone for Canada's bilingualism.

The act establishes the following (among other things) :

-that Canadians have the right to receive services from federal departments and from Crown corporations in both official languages;

-that Canadians will be able to be heard before federal courts in the official language of their choice;

-that Parliament will adopt laws and to publish regulations in both official languages, and that both versions will be of equal legal weight
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@ Bananana - I honestly have no idea what you are talking about, you're point is so unclear. Are you saying schooling in richmond should be conducted in Mandarin because that's the language they all speak? or because it's the language of the future? I genuinely have no clue what the fuck you are trying to prove here. So it's pretty hard for me to have an intelligent conversation with someone who is typing like they just got finished hotboxing their mom's minivan.
There is no issue with me or my argument. If your reading comprehension is such shit that's your fucking problem. Interesting how someone so fucking retarded would attempt to and has the gall to participate in a debate about education. Not everyone that lives and is educated in Canada stays in the country to look for jobs here to serve the local population. A lot of us expat (2.8 million, 10% of our workforce). A lot of us work jobs that are reliant on countries rather than our own. Canadian companies sell products internationally. We import things we don't produce here. How do you think this happens? Magic?

Just for you: Look at the amount of products that exist for everyone to consume. How many were produced here? How many were imported from elsewhere? How the fuck do you think Canadian companies sell things to other non-English speaking countries? What about vice-versa?

A basic introduction to languages other than our own is a good thing no matter how you look at it. Perhaps a few will further study and bigger, better things will happen from there. Having Mandarin as a choice for a elective language study is as simple as the realization that 1.4 Billion people speak it and everyday they are becoming a larger player in a globalized world. If Iran or wherever you originate was as important internationally you'd be having the same complaints about Farsi.
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What'd you just stumble onto Thesaurus.com? Take it easy.

MG1 makes a valid point, English and French are Canada's official languages, those should be the primary languages taught in schools. Sure if you want to take a japanese or spanish, or madarin class go for it, but it comes at the expense of one of your elective blocks.

This coming from someone who speaks three languages, English (because canada duh), French (Because I was in french immersion for school), and Farsi (through home use). There was no need for me to be taught Farsi in school, I picked it up at home from a young age with no problems.
Can you read and write in Farsi?
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Old 09-12-2016, 11:57 PM   #100
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Can you read and write in Farsi?
No. However this comes down to my own unwillingness to learn. I was put in classes by my parents for reading and writing, but I hated everything to do with it and school. By all accounts I was a terrible child when it came to education.

So I don't think it fails any of my points, I believe our education system should focus on teaching children the official languages of our country (since most already struggle to learn that within their K-12 education), and anything beyond that should be on the families to teach or enroll their kids into.
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