Yet Another English v. Mandarin Language War in Richmond...

[GLOW]

i knew someone bilingual that went to france once i think paris and when she spoke canadian french people were incredibly rude to her so she went back to english and everyone treated her normally or at least better so she played the ignorant english speaking tourist

[CivicBlues]

Do they not teach Parisian (Standard) French in BC Schools? I thought they did, otherwise we'd all sound like dirty Quebeqois Tabernac!, which I'm pretty sure we don't.

[jasonturbo]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Do they not teach Parisian (Standard) French in BC Schools? I thought they did, otherwise we'd all sound like dirty KaybekwaasTabernac!, which I'm pretty sure we don't.

That is correct, we learn proper French outside of Quebec.

[GLOW]

no idea where she was from i just knew she was bilingual and from canada. maybe she grew up in quebec?

[CivicBlues]

Yeah, English is pretty dominant now in much of the world. Whenever I travel I find people (especially younger folks) much more eager to practice their English than to put up with me stumbling with their native tongue. The exceptions of course, being older persons, and the French

[Mr.HappySilp]

Just something I notice when working as a support. More and more Chinese speaking are being rude. Instead of even trying or at least ask for a Chinese speaker they just start talking in Chinese like as if everyone in Vancouver speaks Chinese. The sec someone from the call center tells them they don't understand chinese. Oh boy you are in for it.

Is only Chinese that does that. Other people would at least try to communicate with you in English first and ACTUALLY try really hard. Chinese no way they make you speak their language and sometimes even go as far to complain that we should train everyone to learn Chinese. WTF @@

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by meme405

The issue isn't that it's a difficult language to learn overall. The difference is that unlike english-french-spanish, in mandarin any english speaker has to learn new characters and alphabet. I'm not saying at all that mandarin is more difficult to learn than english or vice versa. Actually from what I understand they are relatively similar.

It's great that the top marks in some Mandarin 101 class went to White people, but at the end of that class how many of those kids could actually speak mandarin? lol.

Do schools in China teach English?

I mean sure 1.3 billion people speak mandarin, and that's great to say that more people should learn it cause as China grows it would be important.

But some 900 million people in this world speak English, and it could be said to China that it might be worthwhile for them to learn English if they plan on becoming any more than a supplier of cheap labor throughout the planet.

Yes they do teach english in some of the schools in China and in Hong Kong.
You would be quite surprised. I've met china people that were into heavy metal as they grew up in Bejing and was heavily infuenced by western cultures as a child. I found it hard to image them with jean jackets, big mullets and listening to GnR and ACDC.

As for the debate about learning another language, it just comes down to how much dedication one puts into learning it. Doesn't really matter which language. You learned Farsi on your own and I picked up canto because I watched a lot of Young and Dangerous movies.

Also, of the 1.3B people that speak mandarin, I think your number is off but that's not really that important.

[underscore]

I graduated ~10 years ago, and from grade 6-12 I went to schools with French Immersion. Roughly half of my friends in those days were in FI.

Originally Posted by murd0c

When I have kids I'm going to put them in French emersion no questions asked since the options you have when looking for a federal job is fantastic and needed.

That is a perk, but outside of a federal job it's not so useful, and I found the French Immersion kids tend to have pretty poor English grammar because they took so many classes in French. Some friends that went to an all-French school were appallingly bad at English.

Originally Posted by MG1

No, you are going to send your kids to French Immersion because your kids will be way better off than the masses.

I wouldn't really call the difference that significant.

Originally Posted by MG1

Plus, the classes are full of kids who's parents are well informed and care.

They tend to be more pretentious and douchey, at least to people who aren't in their special-snowflake FI program. Beyond that they tended to be about as well informed and caring as any other group of parents.

Originally Posted by MG1

There are no learning disabled kids or behaviour kids in those classes. Only straight "A" students with a desire to learn.

Sounds like your daughter was lucky, because that certainly isn't the case everywhere. It was roughly the same number of idiots as the regular classes.

Originally Posted by MG1

Parents who don't give a shit about their kids' education wouldn't even consider French Immersion.

Around here at least a lot of kids end up in FI because the elementary school is in a really convenient location, and a lot of parents want their kids to go to that school but don't live in the catchment area for it. They only really want an easier commute.

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Do they not teach Parisian (Standard) French in BC Schools? I thought they did, otherwise we'd all sound like dirty Quebeqois Tabernac!, which I'm pretty sure we don't.

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

That is correct, we learn proper French outside of Quebec.

Are you sure? I've had several friends who took FI go to France and have problems because they sounded "Quebecois". All those years of learning French and they spoke English almost their entire time in France

[Sid Vicious]

i used to work at a french canadian company and alot of the quebecois were as as fobby or even moreso than mainlanders.

it was quite pathetic actually

[bananana]

Ah yes, the great extremely educated masses on RS here to solve another of society's woes. None of my language was greater than a basic 101 level class but please fail away to appease your senses of self worth. In the end this entire dialogue meant nothing anyways.

However remember that in the real world, decision makers generally employ specific language to simplify conversations. I'm suddenly remembering why I stay away from these super intellectual off-topic debates. Enjoy the circle-jerk you bitches.

[Traum]

Important question -- by Chinese, do you really mean Mainland Mandarin, Taiwanese Mandarin, Cantonese, or some other Chinese variant? That's an important difference because I find that it is only the Mainland Mandarin speaking people that behave that way.

Location also seems to make a big difference. I hear / see more of that stuff happening in the Chinese Richmond areas far more than anywhere else.

Another thing I notice is -- Spanish and Indian speakers that do not have a good command of English generally bring along someone who does to do the translation work for them. Not so for Mainland Mandarin speakers.

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

Just something I notice when working as a support. More and more Chinese speaking are being rude. Instead of even trying or at least ask for a Chinese speaker they just start talking in Chinese like as if everyone in Vancouver speaks Chinese. The sec someone from the call center tells them they don't understand chinese. Oh boy you are in for it.

Is only Chinese that does that. Other people would at least try to communicate with you in English first and ACTUALLY try really hard. Chinese no way they make you speak their language and sometimes even go as far to complain that we should train everyone to learn Chinese. WTF @@

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by Sid Vicious

i used to work at a french canadian company and alot of the quebecois were as as fobby or even moreso than mainlanders.

it was quite pathetic actually

LOL wut? FOB = Fresh off the boat.

Most Quebecois had ancestors in North America dating back to the 1600s, which is probably more so than 80% of anglophones.

I get what you're trying to say, but maybe you mean "resistant to learn English"

[Sid Vicious]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

LOL wut? FOB = Fresh off the boat.

Most Quebecois had ancestors in North America dating back to the 1600s, which is probably more so than 80% of anglophones.

I get what you're trying to say, but maybe you mean "resistant to learn English"

yes, and mainlanders/hkers etc probably flew here on an airplane but you dont hear me arguing semantics

[MG1]

I'm pretty sure some of the French Immersion teachers in our province teach "dirty" French, because they learned it from their teachers. So on and so on. I've heard some French Immersion teachers say stuff like, "Oh he's very good with his French. No accent at all." Some French teachers are from other countries and backgrounds. Their French is also a little different. Does it matter? I'll have to ask my daughter.

Do people even know the difference between Early French Immersion, Late French Immersion, and Programme Cadre?

Check out the CPF website - always an interesting one. They are supporters of FI, so you have to take stuff they say with a grain of salt. The national organization is great, for sure, but some of the local ones are, well...............

Canadian Parents for French

[MG1]

Originally Posted by bananana

Enjoy the circle-jerk you bitches.

My standard reply from now on..........





one more time,


okay, that was three...........

[kr4l]

Originally Posted by murd0c

How would it be a huge mistake? Last time I checked this is CANADA and Federal employee's get the best pension and benefits in the country and with less people learning French especially in western Canada they will have more opportunities rather then someone learning Mandarin when it's not a official language.

I find it so said about how blind sided people are in the thread about the bigger picture and how they think because 1/3rd of the worlds population speaks a language they will be better off learning it.


I would like to note I for one hate French but living in the country we do it gives you the most options for a better future sadly.

Sorry didn't mean "mistake". Maybe more of not a great choice
. Everyone has there plan for there children. If I wanted my kids to get a cushy government desk job in Canada and work 40 hours a week for the best pension plan, sure I'll make them take French.

But I want my kids to see the world and I can gaurantee knowing Mandarin (now and in the future) it will open more doors then knowing French as a second language.

Who really cares for a pension and a great benefits plan when you're making great money

Disclaimer: im CBC, know very little canto, no mando whatsoever. I actually hate mainlanders but I know the value of their language in the world of business

[ImportPsycho]

My 5yr daughter started kindergarten in Vancouver, this month.
All the letters and forms, sent home to parents are in English and Mandarin.
Is this how things are now? I did not expect it from public school. Sure there are lot of Chinese students but...VSB approve of this?
Anyway, i would like my daughter to learn Mandarin over French if i were to pick.

[Nlkko]

Guy havent seen his kid yet planned to get them to take French so they can get a government desk job. Sounds just like the typical Asian parents want their kids to be doctors. Recipe for failure and/or miserable life for your kids and you.

[Traum]

Personally, I think you guys are giving Mandarin too much credit than it deserves.

Undoubtedly, Mainland China is a huge market. But there are a couple of things I think you guys are overlooking. It would take far too long to explain this in detail, so I will just highlight a couple of points without providing too much background detail / evidence. But if you are willing to look, the evidence is all there.

- China has really reached its peak economy power some time back in 2008 - 2010. Ever since then, it economic growth has slowed and continued to slow.

- Numerous provinces, counties, cities, etc. are in massive debt. The central government is still holding / hoarding a lot of cash, but with the weakening economy, it is tossing them out at a rapid pace.

- And then we still haven't take into account the massive loss of reserves as corrupt officials funnels them out of the country. The rich are also doing the same thing to transfer funds out of China.

- Mainland China is a very exclusive market, in the sense that it always tries to exclude foreigners from entering their market. If they need foreign resources, IP rights, etc., they will actively come seek it. But as soon as they think they know your trade secrets / technologies / techniques well enough, they will try all sorts of things to keep you out.

Especially on that last point, what it means is, if you are not a Han Chinese national, don't expect any career success to last. You may get treated like kings initially when the Chinese market / company need your skills and talents. But from hiring you, they will milk you for all you are worth, and mine your knowledge and skills. And then when they think they know enough, they will quite mercilessly dump you. Again, unless you are one of them Han Chinese national, you will always get treated like an outsider in that sense that you are not one of them.

So think about that before lining up a life long Mandarin education for your kid. Mandarin is undoubtedly a very useful language, even when you take the above into account. But it is in no way the most promising language since slice bread as some of you seem to believe.

[kr4l]

^ with your reasoning, you might as well just stick to English.

In the end, having a skill such as a second language will open more doors than someone who just knows just english. I would choose mando over French. Others would choose Japanese etc etc. Just get your kids to learn something

[parm104]

Originally Posted by ImportPsycho

VSB approve of this?

What's there to approve? It's no way an infringement upon any of your rights or anyone else's.

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

[ImportPsycho]

Originally Posted by parm104

What's there to approve? It's no way an infringement upon any of your rights or anyone else's.

Im not complaining, i thought things are more strick, being public an all

[MG1]

How about our kids learning English first. Don't have to look too far to see what I mean.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by MG1

How about our kids learning English first. Don't have to look too far to see what I mean.

And yet here we are talking about FI.
Make up your damn mind.