Yet Another English v. Mandarin Language War in Richmond...

[meme405]

Originally Posted by bananana

A basic introduction to languages other than our own is a good thing no matter how you look at it. Perhaps a few will further study and bigger, better things will happen from there. Having Mandarin as a choice for a elective language study is as simple as the realization that 1.4 Billion people speak it and everyday they are becoming a larger player in a globalized world. If Iran or wherever you originate was as important internationally you'd be having the same complaints about Farsi.

Maybe I am confused since I said excatly your point in my post, and yet you are sitting here arguing with me:

Originally Posted by meme405

Sure if you want to take a japanese or spanish, or madarin class go for it, but it comes at the expense of one of your elective blocks.

I agree an introduction to other languages should be available, but exactly as you said, those courses should be electives. Nothing should detract from our goal of education here in canada to teach our children first and foremost the official languages of our country.

Go fuck off. You're the one that is spewing the same points I made making it seem like you are the second coming of christ himself with your divine knowledge.

[parm104]

Originally Posted by meme405

Actually it's not confusing at all, and it's only open to misconception based on an individuals own ignorance or stupidity.

The Official Languages Act is a Canadian law; it gives French and English equal rights in Canada and makes them the preferred language over all others. There is a few other laws which also govern languages but The Official Languages Act is the legislative keystone for Canada's bilingualism.

The act establishes the following (among other things) :

-that Canadians have the right to receive services from federal departments and from Crown corporations in both official languages;

-that Canadians will be able to be heard before federal courts in the official language of their choice;

-that Parliament will adopt laws and to publish regulations in both official languages, and that both versions will be of equal legal weight

You say it's not confusing at all but you've already misinterpreted it. It doesn't make English and French the preferred languages in Canada. That's way too broad to be interpreted as law.

It makes English and French equal under the law when it comes to matters dealing only with government; not Canadian society as a whole. It gives English and French equality of status and equal rights and privileges as to their use in all institutions of the Parliament and government of Canada, not when it comes to private matters in our society. We do not have an official language across the board in Canada amongst our people (legally). Whenever someone says we do, they're basing it on their on preconceptions and experiences of our nation and perhaps percentage of people who speak it rather than on actual law.

Simply saying we have official languages in Canada doesn't help anyone. It has no bearing on what we should speak and what we need to speak in this country. That is entirely up to society itself.

You used the Official Languages Act to impose it on people in our society in private matters. You say it's quite simple but then why do you incorrectly apply to a conversation that started based on a dispute amongst private individuals in Richmond?

I don't dispute your notion that our education system should focus on first and foremost English and then French and then other languages. I'm fully on board with you there. Perhaps down the road one day it may change. I'm pretty sure the majority of our Canadian population cannot/does not speak French and so far I don't think it's hindering anyone's ability to contribute to society. Not being able to speak English would, of course.

[meme405]

^You're nitpicking, I havn't misinterpreted anything, I just didn't feel like typing the entire law book into my post to cover all the bases.

You are right, people are welcome to use any language they like in private interactions.

Now back to the issue at hand, is strata council more of a legal proceeding or is it more of a private interaction? I honestly don't know the answer to this one. Strata Council is a legally required aspect to having a multi unit development, but it doesn't fall under the legal infrastructure, it falls as a private matter, until there is a dispute.

The interesting thing here is that should this end up going through the legal channels, the mandarin speaking council will have to defend in a court of english/french speaking law, why they feel they are justified to speak mandarin only in their strata meetings. A little Ironic to say the least...

Spoiler!

Originally Posted by parm104

Perhaps down the road one day it may change.

No. The only thing that will change this, is the day that technology forces a change. AKA the day we can plug a machine into our body and instantly learn a language, or the day we get microchips which instantly translate, or some shit like that.

Without Technology forcing a change, everything else in this world is stagnant.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by bananana

Bring on the fails, but this type of conversation is why some circles view the local Canadian populace lazy, unambitious and entitled.

Which circles, the ones that can't be bothered to put any effort into learning the primary language used in the country they chose to move to?

[murd0c]

plain and simple if you come and live in Canada everything should be in English/French first and then have an option of the language in your area if requested. It should be put in the Canadian charter of rights which will end the conflict and frustration. It's great living in a multi-cultural country but people should really respect all culture's around them rather then their own...

[jasonturbo]

English will always win, American culture too strong, lots of immigrant people want to live like Westerner, no western people want to live like mainland gull.

Said another way, English>Mandarin

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by meme405

No. However this comes down to my own unwillingness to learn. I was put in classes by my parents for reading and writing, but I hated everything to do with it and school. By all accounts I was a terrible child when it came to education.

So I don't think it fails any of my points, I believe our education system should focus on teaching children the official languages of our country (since most already struggle to learn that within their K-12 education), and anything beyond that should be on the families to teach or enroll their kids into.

French is literally useless. It may bean official language but it's pointless to learn. Students would be better off using a language that they would actually use.

Fun fact it's not mandatory for students to learn English in Quebec.

[MG1]

French is a dying language. Anyway............ bananarama might be on the prowl.

[Traum]

While French isn't generally used very much outside of Quebec, I'd definitely argue against that it is useless.

For anyone looking to work at the federal government level, knowing French is a major asset. Ottawa, in particular, operates on a French first, English second type of manner even though the vast majority of locals seem to be bilingual.

Also, much of Western Europe operates with some sort of French. When I was travelling there, I really wished I had spent more effort back in my hs French classes.

Mandarin is certainly useful to know, especially in Vancouver and Toronto where there is a sizable Chinese population. But I'd argue that in N.America as a whole, Spanish is the arguably more useful language to know, and it is probably easier to pick up than Chinese as well.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by meme405

What'd you just stumble onto Thesaurus.com? Take it easy.

One of my favourite one line zingers on here in a long time. Bringing some sarcastic spark back to RS.

[MG1]

What was that saying again? Bullshit baffles brains............. I had absolutely no idea what bananarama said, but I took offence to the one sentence I did understand.

Then, I read his previous posts in other threads and it all made sense. He is what he is and it's all good. I'm not offended anymore - just

[murd0c]

Originally Posted by MG1

French is a dying language. Anyway............ bananarama might be on the prowl.

it doesn't matter if its dying or not its part of our country and it always will be. When I have kids I'm going to put them in French emersion no questions asked since the options you have when looking for a federal job is fantastic and needed.

[MG1]

No, you are going to send your kids to French Immersion because your kids will be way better off than the masses.

The programme is well funded, as the federal government throws some money into the programmes. This is above and beyond what our provincial government funds its regular classes. Plus, the classes are full of kids who's parents are well informed and care. Learning French is an added bonus.

My daughter asked me when she was in grade 5 if she could attend a Late French Immersion class that was starting up at a nearby school.

This is Late French Immersion. When my daughter graduated secondary school, she thanked me for lining up and getting her in, back then. She told me that she finally got into a class where kids wanted to learn. She also met her best friend there. No dumbass shitheads and shit disturbers in the class. "For once, we learned and nobody had to be talked to or dealt with by the teachers. So much got done in class." Wow!

There are no learning disabled kids or behaviour kids in those classes. Only straight "A" students with a desire to learn.

Now, as far as Early French Immersion, the picture isn't always great. They take anybody who's interested. It's kind of watered down. But, it's still a helluva lot better than regular classes. Parents who don't give a shit about their kids' education wouldn't even consider French Immersion.

What's really weird is, the Late French kids, in two years, catch up to those who are in Early French Immersion who have been at it since Kindergarten.

Anyway, those are my experiences and observations. It may be different for others and other schools and school districts.

As one person I know put it, "French Immersion is a private school in a public school setting."

Having said all that, not all kids are successful in those programmes. Some students drop out. It's not for everyone.

My kids are all grown up and this happened decades ago, but from what I hear, the French Immersion programmes are not as strong as they once used to be. In some schools, they actively seek out students to keep enrolment up. That's scary. If the programme was good, you'd figure they'd be knocking on your door. Not the other way around.

The biggest challenge with running French Immersion classes is finding qualified teachers, let alone ones who can actually teach it well. So many students have been turned off by ineffective French teachers. Qualified, but not very inspiring. When you're scraping the bottom of the barrel, thats what you get. If you know your French, you're hired, sight unseen.

Does anyone on RS have kids in Programme Cadre? I'd like to hear how that's going.

[Ch28]

Originally Posted by bananana

My argument follows along the actual pedagogical reasoning of second language in schools. The current methodology that was created over about a thousand years of history.

In contrast your entire post is non sequitur. There's no argument, no logical plot or conclusion. Just nothing at all. A simple minded jab at the concept of a second language.

You want to live in a globalized world and enjoy the fruits of unheard of levels of consumerism then this is what is needed to prepare our nations youth and in contrast the future of the country for this world.

Bring on the fails, but this type of conversation is why some circles view the local Canadian populace lazy, unambitious and entitled.

Originally Posted by meme405

What'd you just stumble onto Thesaurus.com? Take it easy.

[jasonturbo]

French immersion +1

Titty bar in Montreal much better when you can speak French, they don't hate you quite as much as they hate the anglophones.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

French immersion +1

Titty bar in Montreal much better when you can speak French, they don't hate you quite as much as they hate the anglophones.

Try using that French in Paris and the locals there will speak to you in english.

[murd0c]

it's cause our French is dirty French and the France French people are snobs to it like the true Quebec Frogs are snobs to people that only speak English.

[MG1]

Actually, the phrase I've heard is, it's "hillbilly" French, lol.

Aren't french people snobs by nature? Everybody else's shit smells, but not their's?


Thank god there's french women.................

[ae101]

true story, friend was in France and he try speaking English but no cared/being ignored

start speaking mandarin and ppl start coming in with service speaking English to you

my friend was like WTF

[kr4l]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

French immersion +1

Titty bar in Montreal much better when you can speak French, they don't hate you quite as much as they hate the anglophones.

This is not true. Cash is the only language you need.

Learning different languages is very important for the futures of your children but picking French over say, Mandarin is a huge mistake. I know I'll be pushing my kid to learn mando for sure.

[murd0c]

Originally Posted by kr4l

This is not true. Cash is the only language you need.

Learning different languages is very important for the futures of your children but picking French over say, Mandarin is a huge mistake. I know I'll be pushing my kid to learn mando for sure.

How would it be a huge mistake? Last time I checked this is CANADA and Federal employee's get the best pension and benefits in the country and with less people learning French especially in western Canada they will have more opportunities rather then someone learning Mandarin when it's not a official language.

I find it so said about how blind sided people are in the thread about the bigger picture and how they think because 1/3rd of the worlds population speaks a language they will be better off learning it.


I would like to note I for one hate French but living in the country we do it gives you the most options for a better future sadly.

[meme405]

Meh, I fail to believe most people would have very much success trying to pick up mandarin here in canada, unless they come from a Mandarin speaking household.

It's not like some white kid is going to have a great chance at learning one of the most complex languages, when he/she can only utilize it for at most 10 hours a week (assuming some really motivated white kid studies 2 hours a day 5 days a week at it).

Whereas French, and spanish can be learned in as little as a couple hours a week if you stay with it. You won't be the greatest at it, but me even 10 years after leaving my last french class can still hold a conversation with just about anyone.

That's what I think most people are missing here, English, spanish and french go hand in hand. The three are very simple to pick up if you know one or two of the others. Whereas Mandarin, japanese, korean, these languages are a completely different ball park, this isn't something our education will be able to effectively teach children who don't have a background in the language.

[jasonturbo]

English is the international language of business, even in Quebec you will hit a glass ceiling at some point if you don't speak very good English... doesn't matter how brilliant you are etc.

If there is one language everyone should speak it's English.

I won't even bother learning other languages now, that's time I could spend jamming English down the throats of foreigners.

Spoiler!

If you don't know this, barely anyone in Quebec can speak English, most people who can speak it live in Montreal.. go visit any of the small towns or even Quebec City, barely anyone can understand English.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by meme405

That's what I think most people are missing here, English, spanish and french go hand in hand. The three are very simple to pick up if you know one or two of the others. Whereas Mandarin, japanese, korean, these languages are a completely different ball park, this isn't something our education will be able to effectively teach children who don't have a background in the language.

That's where you are wrong.
While complex, mandarin is actually not that difficult to learn since they only use 4 tones.
I took Mandarin when I was at UBC and some of the top marks went to the caucasian students.

[meme405]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

That's where you are wrong.
While complex, mandarin is actually not that difficult to learn since they only use 4 tones.
I took Mandarin when I was at UBC and some of the top marks went to the caucasian students.

The issue isn't that it's a difficult language to learn overall. The difference is that unlike english-french-spanish, in mandarin any english speaker has to learn new characters and alphabet. I'm not saying at all that mandarin is more difficult to learn than english or vice versa. Actually from what I understand they are relatively similar.

It's great that the top marks in some Mandarin 101 class went to White people, but at the end of that class how many of those kids could actually speak mandarin? lol.

Do schools in China teach English?

I mean sure 1.3 billion people speak mandarin, and that's great to say that more people should learn it cause as China grows it would be important.

But some 900 million people in this world speak English, and it could be said to China that it might be worthwhile for them to learn English if they plan on becoming any more than a supplier of cheap labor throughout the planet.