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Old 05-10-2016, 07:01 AM   #51
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"What I'm saying is that it's a huge fucking inconvenience in some cases to obey some law that was brought in with clear intention of increasing revenues." Consider that 88 people were killed by distracted drivers in one year and DD is now the single major cause of fatal crashes....more so than impaired in the mid 50's.. maybe that has something to do with it...and not increasing revenues?
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Old 05-10-2016, 08:35 AM   #52
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The absolute number 88 means anything to you honestly? Do you just consume whatever the shit you get thrown at?

There are increasingly more people on the road compared to 50's so I'm not sure how you are making sense of that 88.

I never denied distracted driving in general will not likely lead to more accidents. What bothers me is the oversimplistic way cash hungry govt comes up to solve it. What about Tesla owners? I've seen multiple occasions the distracted fuckheads playing with their giant screen in their car. You think reaching your hand to the screen AND looking at the screen figure out which buttons to press is safer than simply holding a phone and talking?

Oh boy, it's just so easy to say factor A causes B and implement a fine. And it looks like there are plenty out there who are willing to eat it. With govt continuing to increase the amount of fines, you better hope there will actually be reduction in accidents resulting from it.
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Old 05-10-2016, 08:43 AM   #53
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^^

Unless I'm misreading what Zulutango is referring to by mid 50's is the number of deaths caused by impaired drivers compared to 80+ for Distracted Drivers. In other words DD causes more deaths then drinking and driving.
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Old 05-10-2016, 08:50 AM   #54
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People lie...a lot...

Anyone who's gotten a ticket will try to justify the fact that they weren't on their phone when they know they were and they're just pissed that they got caught. I've been in a car with someone who got a speeding ticket...and yeah, he was speeding. A few days later I hear from a mutual friend how its bullshit that cops have nothing better to do than to give tickets to people doing 55kmph like **** did. Bull...shit! He was doing a lot more than 55 and telling people otherwise to make him seem like a victim. Just like all the distracted drivers do.

I'm in a truck, and you'd be surprised as to how many cars I can see into with a phone in their lap or holding it just a bit lower than their steering wheel to make it look like they're head isn't pointed down.

If I get a text while driving, fuck it. If its that important they can call me and I'll push the button on the steering wheel and answer the call.
I don't know about that, I've gotten plenty of tickets more then I'd like to admit and not once did I ever get a ticket I wasn't guilty of, that includes a DD ticket when the laws first came into effect. I always pay them right away have never fought them, I never argue with the officer either. Do you know why I pulled you over? Yes, I was going to fast or yes I was talking on my phone sorry about that. There has been times when being honest has gotten me off with a warning as well.

Those days of driving like a tool and getting loads of tickets are behind me, haven't gotten on in a lot of years knock on wood.
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Old 05-10-2016, 10:14 AM   #55
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I never denied distracted driving in general will not likely lead to more accidents. What bothers me is the oversimplistic way cash hungry govt comes up to solve it.

Oh boy, it's just so easy to say factor A causes B and implement a fine. And it looks like there are plenty out there who are willing to eat it. With govt continuing to increase the amount of fines, you better hope there will actually be reduction in accidents resulting from it.
okay, i'm as skeptical of government moves as the next guy but i've gotta ask, how would you solve it? What's a non-oversimplistic way that won't cost money that taxpayers will bitch and moan about to curb distracted driving?
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Old 05-10-2016, 10:22 AM   #56
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Anyone know of hands free control options for an Android phone? I'm using a Nexus 5 still on Kit Kat. My old iPhone had a wireless remote that mounted to my steering wheel and I could change music tracks. Would like something similar for my Android but haven't found anything.
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Old 05-10-2016, 10:30 AM   #57
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What are governments going to do when cars start driving themselves. They are going to lose so much in revenue and cops are going to have so much more free time.
They can simply tax car owners by charging "Road Usage Fee" along with road maintenance fee, blah blah blah..
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Old 05-10-2016, 10:35 AM   #58
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Don't do the crime, don't pay the fine, keep all your cash. Pretty simple.

If it's YOUR CHOICE to break the law, then it's your choice to pay the price when caught.
Speeding isn't a crime. Sure it's against the rule, but it's not a crime like DUI, murder, robbery, arson, etc.

Speeding is under Motor Vehicle Act, not Criminal Code of Canada.
If you speed, you get a ticket, it's a regulatory matter. No criminal record or jail time will result from simple speeding.

I don't think anyone would complain if speeding tickets actually made sense.
To anyone's eye, it seems like they're setting speed limit artificially low so that they can generate revenue for speeding.

Again, the flow of traffic is the key. The speed limit needs to be set at 85th percentile like we all know. Not 0th percentile.
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Old 05-10-2016, 11:08 AM   #59
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Anyone know of hands free control options for an Android phone? I'm using a Nexus 5 still on Kit Kat. My old iPhone had a wireless remote that mounted to my steering wheel and I could change music tracks. Would like something similar for my Android but haven't found anything.
I would assume a bluetooth device exists, just need to find it. I wouldn't mind having one too, sometimes I have my phone playing music on shuffle and the order it's picking songs is no bueno.
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Old 05-10-2016, 11:15 AM   #60
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https://www.amazon.ca/Bluetooth-Hand...hands-free+kit

something like that?

i'm assuming there are cheaper alternatives if you look around
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Old 05-10-2016, 11:45 AM   #61
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okay, i'm as skeptical of government moves as the next guy but i've gotta ask, how would you solve it? What's a non-oversimplistic way that won't cost money that taxpayers will bitch and moan about to curb distracted driving?
Why not just licence suspensions for repeat offenders? When you're sitting on the bus you have plenty of time to call or text.

Money is such an odd way of disciplining people. For those who don't have it then yes it may work, but for those who have lots of it why would they change their ways when just throwing more money at it makes the situation go away?

It should be an even playing field, and taking your license away is about as fair as it gets.

You can't call it a cash grab when they are just taking those drivers off the road.
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Old 05-10-2016, 12:01 PM   #62
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Why wouldn't people think this is a cash grab? If you really believe anytime the province decides to up fees on offenses, much as they did with the drinking and driving law, and you think that increased funds doesn't come into the equation, than you are out to lunch.

If it wasn't a cash grab, and the province was serious about enforcing safety, than why not just suspend your license for x amount of days if you are caught? Wouldn't that be enough enforcement without the innate fees?

Let's be real here. I see more dangers with Mainland drivers who carry Chinese licences on the road than I do with people checking their phones at a red light. Do you see the province addressing that? Well of course not, ICBC wouldn't want to miss out on this insurance premiums on that N covered BWW 5 Series

I was also reading that ICBC subsidizes part of the salaries for Traffic Authority Police Officers aka Traffic Cops? Is this actually true? If that is the case, that definitely smells funky to me.
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Old 05-10-2016, 12:45 PM   #63
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Why not just licence suspensions for repeat offenders? When you're sitting on the bus you have plenty of time to call or text.
From my understanding, it looks like after the 2nd offence, the offenders are subject to a review which may or may not lead to suspensions.
1st offence = automatic review for L or N's
2nd offence onwards = automatic review for anyone regardless of license class

I'm pretty sure those reviews weren't around during this law's first incarnation. The question now is, at what point will the review panel suspend people as that standard has not yet been set and i don't think that's been outlined either. But I would assume (citing the overall perception of this issue) they will start issuing minimum suspension at 2nd offence that gradually grows in severity with each offence.
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Old 05-10-2016, 12:55 PM   #64
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Cash grab or not, whats going to hit someone with a harder impact that'll leave a lasting impression and get the law imbeded into their brains:

A driving ban and a small fine

Or

A driving ban and a huge fine which will hit you where it hurts - your wallet

I honestly couldn't care less if the fine was a 1 year ban and a 1000$ fine. I don't use my phone while driving so I've nothing to worry about. A good portion of the time my phone is burried in my bag sitting on the back seat.
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Old 05-10-2016, 12:58 PM   #65
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I don't have an issue with the increased fines, the previous fine wasn't much, at least with the escalating fines and review of your license with the 2nd offense, it might make some think twice. A combination of increasing fines and license suspension I think is good. I don't think license suspension alone, without a significant monetary penalty would work too well either as there are a number of people who will still drive without a license, a number of times I recall hearing people being caught driving without a proper license.


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I was also reading that ICBC subsidizes part of the salaries for Traffic Authority Police Officers aka Traffic Cops? Is this actually true? If that is the case, that definitely smells funky to me.
I think you are confusing the Traffic Authority municipal constables with VPD officers assigned to the traffic section and enforcement unit. The Traffic Authority members are restricted peace officers not police officers, they essentially just direct traffic and deal with street closures for special events such as the fire works, marathons, filming, etc... To my knowledge Traffic Authority program is part of the VPD operating budget and event organizers pay fees/permits that cover having Traffic Authority members on site to close streets/direct traffic.
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Old 05-10-2016, 01:36 PM   #66
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The fact that the chart shows fines up to the 10th offence shows to me that they aren't planning on suspending licenses after a couple of infractions. While I agree that raising the fines are partly there to stop people from using their phone while driving, until it's shown that they are suspending people after 2-3 offenses then it's clear they want the extra revenue from it.
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Old 05-10-2016, 01:44 PM   #67
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The fact that the chart shows fines up to the 10th offence shows to me that they aren't planning on suspending licenses after a couple of infractions. While I agree that raising the fines are partly there to stop people from using their phone while driving, until it's shown that they are suspending people after 2-3 offenses then it's clear they want the extra revenue from it.
But I can argue that they only show the tenth infraction as a way to emphasize the premium effects, not necessarily to stipulate a suspension level.

The fact is that there now 10 levels and 10 steps a premium can rise. Anything beyond that is your personal interpretation of the facts available aka you see what you want to see.
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Old 05-10-2016, 01:49 PM   #68
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But I can argue that they only show the tenth infraction as a way to emphasize the premium effects, not necessarily to stipulate a suspension level.

The fact is that there now 10 levels and 10 steps a premium can rise. Anything beyond that is your personal interpretation of the facts available aka you see what you want to see.
A better way to emphasize things would be after the 3rd offense it just says:

4th Offense: Suspension 3 months
5th Offense: Suspension 1 year
6th Offense: Suspension 2 years

And so on...add a large find on top of the suspensions too. The whole "review" process sounds sketchy to me. It honestly feels like a way to let certain people (rich or connected) stay on the road while others get the shaft. It should be black and white regardless of who you are.
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Old 05-10-2016, 01:58 PM   #69
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I'm sure we'll be hearing from the media or user experience here. Wouldn't be surprised to see 3 month suspensions at 2nd or 3rd offence.

That kinda left me scratching my head as well...the mandatory review after 2 strikes and the vagueness of it. Seems like lazy policy making to me more than anything else though. Give it a year, then we'll see what the precedence and overall disciplinary trends are.

And if you find you're not satisfied with the information being released to the public regarding the application of the new law, you could always request under freedom of information so you can come to better conclusions.
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Old 05-10-2016, 02:42 PM   #70
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I think on the 3rd time you get caught you should get suspend for 3months
4th time 6months
5th suspend for 5 years
Record reset every 2 years.

If you are suspend and got caught driving and using your phone you get suspended for life and this stays in your driving record across Canada. You have no idea how fines don't work on some of these rich people espeically rich kids. Is their parents money and really even if the fines are $1000 each is pocket change to them. The only way they learn is take away their right to drive. Remember driving is not a right is a privillage.
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Old 05-10-2016, 02:54 PM   #71
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Old 05-10-2016, 05:32 PM   #72
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Why wouldn't people think this is a cash grab? If you really believe anytime the province decides to up fees on offenses, much as they did with the drinking and driving law, and you think that increased funds doesn't come into the equation, than you are out to lunch.

If it wasn't a cash grab, and the province was serious about enforcing safety, than why not just suspend your license for x amount of days if you are caught? Wouldn't that be enough enforcement without the innate fees?

Let's be real here. I see more dangers with Mainland drivers who carry Chinese licences on the road than I do with people checking their phones at a red light. Do you see the province addressing that? Well of course not, ICBC wouldn't want to miss out on this insurance premiums on that N covered BWW 5 Series

I was also reading that ICBC subsidizes part of the salaries for Traffic Authority Police Officers aka Traffic Cops? Is this actually true? If that is the case, that definitely smells funky to me.
Finally someone with a sense vs. fuckwits simpletons roaming on this forum thinking the new increased fines will remove their daily annoyances of dealing with distracted drivers and save lives. Just a further evidence that government loves this type of cash grab because hey, how can you oppose a law that will save lives?

Why tiered fines too? Why not just increase the length of probation because that is very costly to the driver, actually much costlier to the driver compared to paying cash. But nah, govt doesn't want that because ideally they would love to have you keep driving the car and continue to pay increasingly higher fines.
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Old 05-10-2016, 06:53 PM   #73
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Given the fact that BC has pretty bad public transit system, losing a license can mean more than 3 months ban for joy ride for car enthusiasts.

People need car for work, pick up children from school, drop them off at swimming lesson, go buy groceries, etc.

Many people commute from Abbotsford to Vancouver to work.
If you drive that route every single day, and we know we all "speed" everyday multiple times, it would just be a matter of time til you lose your license.

Not advocating driving & texting, just saying that losing license could mean serious inconvenience for some people.

Since texting is just as dangerous as DUI, I can understand that.
What I still don't get is speeding ticket. For example, Marine Drive's speed limit is 50km/h, but the 85th percentile is 79km/h according to the YouTube video "Speed Kills Your Pocketbook".
So the speed limit of Marine Drive should be 80km/h instead of 50km/h if you're actually concerned about safety.
If you ever drive Marine Drive at 90km/h, you will get an Excessive Speeding ticket and your vehicle will be impounded. Which makes no sense.
Going 10km/h over the 85th percentile should not result in Excessive Speeding ticket($368) and vehicle impound.
But just because someone who works for the government that has no road engineering background decided to post 50km/h on Marine Drive, you will be labelled as high risk driver if you go over 10km/h over the 85th percentile.
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Old 05-10-2016, 07:07 PM   #74
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I feel like if you're getting multiple tickets a year then the problem is you. I've driven here over 15 years and generally go with the flow of traffic. I've gotten one speeding ticket (well deserved too) in my life. So either I'm just lucky, or the people who get lots of tickets just drive like assholes.
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Old 05-10-2016, 07:09 PM   #75
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Friends have told me you can be ticketed for having your screen on & the phone mounted on the dash.

Is this true? I use my phone all the time for navigation but I don't touch it
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