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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
Originally posted by Ulic Qel-Droma ill have to agree. .. kinda. sometimes i get a hardon over her, but then i'm like *no i shouldnt.. this is wrong, she's not up to my standards*. but i guess my dick has it's own set of rules.
Last edited by BeefCake4000; 07-22-2016 at 12:15 PM.
When prescription opioids started getting too difficult or too expensive to procure, people addicted to them started turning to heroin–a shift that’s created an “epidemic” of heroin use in whole new groups of people. Now, a new opioid is rising in use and overdose: Fentanyl, a synthetic opioid, is 50-100 times more potent than morphine, according to a recent statement on fentanyl by the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), and 25-50 times more potent than heroin. And its presence seems to be rising sharply, which means that, given its potency, deaths from the drug are also rising.
In 2014, 18,000 people died of opioids, and another 8,000 from heroin. It’s not clear how many people are dying from fentanyl overdoses each day now, but the numbers are climbing sharply in pockets across the U.S. and Canada. Fentanyl is often, without the buyer’s knowledge, mixed with heroin or cocaine, because it’s cheaper than either of them, and much stronger. Here’s what we know about why fentanyl is so powerful, in the body and as a new presence in society.
What does fentanyl do in the brain?
There’s no difference in the way in which fentanyl works on the brain from any of the other opioids–it crosses the blood-brain barrier, just like they all do, and binds with the brain’s μ-opioid receptors. From here, it creates analgesia and euphoria.
“What makes it more or less euphoric than other opioids is how quickly it binds” says Lewis Nelson, MD, medical toxicologist and emergency physician at NYU’s School of Medicine. “If I give you morphine intravenously, it circulates in the blood, then it crosses blood-brain barrier and binds the opioid receptors. But it takes a little while. Heroin crosses much more rapidly–so it’s really euphoric. And fentanyl is very rapid, and therefore very euphoric.”
And fentanyl’s potency is much greater than the other opioids’–that is, it takes much, much less of the drug to have the same effect. So it’s also lethal at much lower doses than even heroin. Micrograms of fentanyl are effective, rather than milligrams of the other opioids:
This difference in fentanyl’s potency is critical–it takes very little to have the same effect as other opioids. The reason so many are dying is because the dose is relatively uncontrolled with street fentanyl, and small excesses can lead to overdose. There’s nothing inherently more dangerous about fentanyl than other opioids except the way it is dosed and sold. This should not suggest that the other opioids are not dangerous; they all are.
The physical effects
Aside from producing an intense high quickly, Fentanyl also produces a number of other effects–nausea, vomiting, analgesia, sedation and respiratory depression among them, according to drugabuse.gov. And like other opioids, it causes death via respiratory arrest (one’s breathing slows to a stop), rather than cardiac arrest.
“The only thing killing you is respiratory depression,” says Nelson. “If I took a few times the therapeutic dose of an opioid, my breathing would slow, and I might die in several hours–it’s a slow spiral toward death. If you took 10 times the dose, you’d likely die, and if you took 100 times, you’d die immediately.” Fentanyl is just a more rapid version of the same kind of death, from respiratory depression.
Where it comes from and where it’s going
Fentanyl was once largely extracted from pharmaceuticals–the fentanyl patch, for instance, used to have a reservoir of the drug that was plainly visible, so one could simply suck the liquid out with a syringe. But now the patches have the drug embedded in a mesh, so are more difficult to extract. So fentanyl for street sale often seems to be made in China and imported to the U.S. through Mexico. And because it’s synthesized, rather than plant-derived, it’s worth the effort.
“From the dealer’s perspective, heroin is still hard to make,” says Nelson. “You have to grow it, extract it, convert it, transport into the country. Fentanyl is so much easier. And because it’s 50x more potent than heroin, the volumes are much easier to transport–you can put it in a car instead of truck, or a plane instead of a boat.”
And use of the drug, and of course overdoses, are rising in pockets around the country. Northern California just reported a spike in fentanyl-related deaths–and 48 overdoses and 12 deaths since late March 2016 alone. In Philadelphia, there was a 300% rise in fentanyl deaths from 2013 to 2014. Young people are trying the drug, just like with heroin, but so are middle-aged people, either wittingly or unwittingly. The problem is that not everyone is going out to buy it intentionally–many are in the market for something else, but getting the drug cut with fentanyl. Or worse, only fentanyl.
“In Sacramento, it’s not fentanyl being sold as heroin even, but it’s being pressed into pill and sold as Norco [a combination of hydrocodone and acetaminophen],” says Nelson. “If counterfeit pills are out there, it is a real problem given the large number of people who ingest rather than inject opioids.” Again, in some of these cases, there’s only fentanyl present, and none of the drug that’s being marketed.
Long-term use of fentanyl is probably somewhat rarer than heroin or other opioids, just by virtue of the fact that it’s so potent that the margin of error is quite small. “A milligram of a drug is a the size of a pinhead. A microgram is thousand times less than that,” says Nelson. “Fentanyl is always mixed into something else. So you’re putting a lot of trust in your dealer. If you make a batch with just a little more, then you see overdose increases in spots in city.” So there are a lot of ways in which the use of fentanyl can go wrong.
Fentanyl will likely grow much more widespread before it peters out. And the fix probably lies not on the street or drug labs, but in exam rooms in doctor’s offices. Changing our prescribing practices would prevent many more addictions than any other avenue, says Nelson. “We are turning out opioid addicts pretty quickly in this country. De novo use is always going to be around–kids are curious and they try something–and the DEA can’t really do anything about that. It’s a Sisyphean task. But stopping the other addicts that form–those who get addicted through prescribing practices–happens by improving the way we practice medicine.”
It would take a lot of people working together to shift how we use opioids in this country. It’s possible, but it won’t happen overnight. “Constituencies on both sides are lining up. But it’s hard, because there are so many players,” says Nelson. “Doctors are involved, patient advocacy groups are involved. Pharma is involved, the government is involved. The problem is incredibly complicated.”
W-18 is a novel psychoactive substance that comes in powder form, and likely derives from Chinese labs where little-known drugs and analogues of known drugs are mass-produced and sold online. It is 10,000 times more powerful than morphine and 100 times more powerful than fentanyl, greatly increasing the likelihood of overdose and death.
The Royal Canadian Mounted Police and the Chinese Ministry of Public Security have agreed to work together to help slow the flow of illicit drugs into Canada.
The two governments now have a memorandum of understanding in place to coordinate policing to crack down on illicit fentanyl and other opioids.
"Fentanyl and other opioids pose a grave threat to the safety of Canadian communities," said RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson in a statement.
"Our meeting this week was an important step forward and highlights the commitment between our two organizations to enhance operational collaboration, identify key areas of concern and work towards a coordinated approach to combat fentanyl trafficking."
From January 1 to the end of October, 622 British Columbians died of illicit drug overdoses, with fentanyl being detected in about 60 per cent of those cases. There were 397 illicit drug deaths in the first 10 months of 2015.
British Columbia declared a public health emergency in April, after a sharp increase in drug-related deaths across the province. The province also relaxed rules around the availability of naloxone, a drug that can reverse some of the effects of an overdose.
The B.C. government has been concerned about China because of the lack of regulations around fentanyl.
The RCMP has seen a recent increase in illicit drugs arriving in Canada. In June, one kilogram of carfentanil from China was seized by the Canada Border Services Agency in Vancouver.
On October 10, Vancouver Island RCMP seized a kilogram of fentanyl during a routine traffic stop. On November 3, a package of Furanyl-fentanyl from China was intercepted at the Vancouver International Mail Centre.
"In China, compounds like fentanyl and their analogs are not controlled substances like they are here in Canada. People are free to make it, sell it and distribute it," said B.C. Health minister Terry Lake. "We think this will go a long way in stemming the flow of deadly fentanyl into British Columbia."
Lake and Premier Christy Clark were in Ottawa last week to ask for more federal action on dealing with the opioid crisis. B.C. has asked the federal government to create regulations around pill presses, often used to put illicit drugs into pill form, before being sold on the black market.
British Columbia is also 30 per cent short of capacity for RCMP drug enforcement officers.
"One of the other things we have asked the federal government for is to make sure the federal drug enforcement RCMP resources are brought up to 100 per cent," said Lake.
RCMP ain't stopping shit. The extreme potency of fentanyl makes it really easy to transport. It's not hard to make, and it'll keep coming. Dumping money into enforcement and emergency services to deal with this is a losing battle. It's really time to look at legalization of hard drugs to regulate it, and provide rehabilitation to those that need it.
^ Why would you regulate it? Look at alcohol for example, legal and regulated yet people still abuse it drink and drive.
Laws need to be harder on criminals. Hell, if you're caught selling this, punishment is death. It'll make people think twice before touching this product.
Laws need to be harder on criminals. Hell, if you're caught selling this, punishment is death. It'll make people think twice before touching this product.
Right, because Capital Punishment has proven to be sooooo effective at stopping crimes in countries that have it.
US States with Capital Punishment are completely murder, rape & drug free right?
It's crazy how it's seeped into rec user market and it's pretty much in everything regardless of if you knew the supplier or not. It's all fun and games and you think you're well connected and it's just another night of partying and then all of a sudden, it's not.
And that's just among rec users. It's a full-blown epidemic at the street level (junkies) and the rates of people OD'ing is unreal.
__________________ "There's a lot of dead people who had the right of way." "Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." "I have a lot of beliefs, and I live by none of them. They're just my beliefs, they make me feel good about who I am. But if they get in the way of a thing I want, like I wanna jack off or something, I just do that."
The problem is fentanyl is difficult to detect, highly potent and can be easily synthesized
Although a new agreement between the RCMP and China aims to stop the flow of fentanyl into Canada, an expert says it won't be easy.
An agreement yesterday formalized a partnership between the RCMP and the Chinese Ministry of Public Safety to limit the trafficking of fentanyl into Canada.
RCMP national drug program coordinator Sgt. Luc Chicoine said the agreement caps over five and a half years of work between the two organizations.
"We've been working with China very closely for the last several years in terms of assisting them and identifying what our problems are," he said.
"What we have seen in China has been a shift. You have to remember that fentanyl is not a drug of abuse in China. So for them, they're trying to address our problems from their country — which is huge, way bigger than we are in terms of population."
Fentanyl is not a controlled substance in China but drugs manufactured for legal use can be diverted for illegal trafficking purposes.
There have been seizures of drugs enroute from China, which can also be easily ordered online.
Simon Fraser University criminology professor Rob Gordon said the drug trade route between Canada and China is nothing new.
"We have had this great North American trade route, this North Pacific trade route in drugs and people," he said. "What is new ... is nobody really understands the volume of stuff."
Chicoine agreed.
He was unable to say exactly how much fentanyl was coming in from China partly because the drug is so difficult to detect. It can be mailed in a package as small as a greeting card, he said.
Gordon said it's added a new dimension to trafficking.
"Because it doesn't require a huge amount of volume to make a huge amount of profit, it's relatively simple to move the stuff undetected," he said.
"It's not like you're transferring bales of marijuana from A to B."
The second problem, Gordon added, is since the drug is chemically-derived rather than plant-based, it can be manufactured anywhere with a laboratory with the right chemicals.
"The fact that it's coming from China is a function of convenience," Gordon explained. "The chemicals that you need for the synthesis of the drug are easily obtained in China and might be more difficult to obtain here."
Gordon predicted other suppliers could easily fill the gap China leaves behind and the drug could even by synthesized here.
Although he called the agreement a massive symbolic win for the government in its fight against fentanyl, Gordon was skeptical it will stem the flow substantially.
"It's one thing in the equation but its not on its own going to do very much in the long term," he said. "These guys are very adept at finding alternative sources."
People are living in a dreamworld if they think some talk with China is going to do anything, at all, to slow the flow of synthetic drugs.
Locking people up is just dealing with the symptoms of the problem. How much money is spent on combating this? Officers aren't cheap, and neither are medical services. Then, if you lock people up, there's costs in incarcerating them. Also, there are other costs like theft and property damage from addicts trying to get their hands on something to sell or trade. It would be interesting to see the bill for all this, and weigh it against options like legalization.
Damn!,what kind of power are the Gangs of China in if they can mass produce a drug like Fentanyl without anybody being caught on the large scale?,Goverments give an easy to pass to optain the chemicals and mixing agents?
Shit they could catch a celebrities kid smoking marijuana,But lets stay way from Fentanyl producers....the Same Drug K2 or Spice thats just as addictive and deadly is produced there also and put in a fancy packaging.
You can read about Portugal and their success to decriminalization. While drugs is still illegal and traffickers still jailed. Users that are caught using are sent into rehab instead of jail and all together has seen a decline in usage over the years since.
It's crazy how it's seeped into rec user market and it's pretty much in everything regardless of if you knew the supplier or not. It's all fun and games and you think you're well connected and it's just another night of partying and then all of a sudden, it's not.
And that's just among rec users. It's a full-blown epidemic at the street level (junkies) and the rates of people OD'ing is unreal.
Someone school me. Is fetanyl coming in as an impurity laced in heroine? If so, damn, don't drug dealers even have some sort of 'code' that you don't do this ... I mean from a purely economic point of view, you're killing your long term customers for heaven's sakes.
Or, is it coming in as fetanyl and people are still using it intentionally knowing how deadly it is?
Someone school me. Is fetanyl coming in as an impurity laced in heroine? If so, damn, don't drug dealers even have some sort of 'code' that you don't do this ... I mean from a purely economic point of view, you're killing your long term customers for heaven's sakes.
Or, is it coming in as fetanyl and people are still using it intentionally knowing how deadly it is?
Second one, people are buying fentanyl because they want fentanyl.
If anything, fentanyl has probably pushed a lot of would-be heroin dealers to being fentanyl dealers - the same types that would have been selling oxy's a couple years ago.
Shit's cray, why can't people just stick to coke jeez.
Damn!,what kind of power are the Gangs of China in if they can mass produce a drug like Fentanyl without anybody being caught on the large scale?,Goverments give an easy to pass to optain the chemicals and mixing agents?
Shit they could catch a celebrities kid smoking marijuana,But lets stay way from Fentanyl producers....the Same Drug K2 or Spice thats just as addictive and deadly is produced there also and put in a fancy packaging.
From what I saw on CBC, the Fentanyl is legally produced in China. It's a legit medical drug with legit medical uses. What doesn't make its way to the western medical system somehow ends up in the hands of drug dealers to be diluted and sold as fake heroin.
I guess not being trained chemists, they don't know how much to dilute it?
__________________
"Damn fine car Dodge... Ran over me wife with a Dodge!", Zeke
the bi-products to make Fentynal are not regulated in china as they are in Canada, therefor 3rd party producers can create Fentynal and ship it outside of China
Fentynal and Heroin are both Opiates, they arent passed off for one another, you're just getting an opiate either way, the strength is what is different.
__________________
Dank memes cant melt steel beams
I guess not being trained chemists, they don't know how much to dilute it?
this. the reason for all the deaths.
A good friend got hooked on fake oxy 80's which we later found out was fentanyl. If you swallow a whole pill like a normal oxy it will kill you. You can only rail a part of it - at least that's how he was doin it. This shit took a guy that was healthy and on top of his game and turned him into a complete junky over the course of 1-2 years. Be very careful with drugs these days. High potency is the exact reason its being sold (lower cost + high drug effect = very dangerous for the consumer).
Someone school me. Is fetanyl coming in as an impurity laced in heroine? If so, damn, don't drug dealers even have some sort of 'code' that you don't do this ... I mean from a purely economic point of view, you're killing your long term customers for heaven's sakes.
Or, is it coming in as fetanyl and people are still using it intentionally knowing how deadly it is?
Fentanyl is its own drug.
You need less of it to get the same effect as or more of than what's out there now. What that means is, you can dilute your product (less cost to you) and increase the high. This does 2 things. Puts money in your pocket and makes people higher (happier). Fentanyl is also MUCH more addictive than other substances. So not only are the people getting higher, for cheaper and the occasional users are now becoming addicts.
The fact that is so potent is where the problem is. When you put it in a pill form you can NEVER assure that your mixture is completely mixed evenly. Mixing powders is impossible to spread it evenly. You are going to have some pills that have barely any and your gonna have some that will kill you.
Stay safe out there. Honestly at this point I'm glad this wasn't around during my rave days. I wouldn't even think of doing drugs these days.
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