REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

Berzerker · 11-15-2016, 01:46 PM

Anyone have experience with an 11b claim on a ticket dispute? I finally got notice for a dispute (light bar) and the court date will be 13.5 months after the violation ticket was issued.

Section 11(b) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the right to a trial within a reasonable period of time.

Berz out.

Zedbra · 11-15-2016, 04:47 PM

I think it's over 36 months without the delay being any fault of your own, not 100% but I have a friend going through this with a co-accused that has been delaying so long my friend may get off under this statute (though it is criminal court, not sure if traffic is different)

Berzerker · 11-16-2016, 08:48 AM

So far my research says 10 months or more is liable for 11b IF it's no fault of your own. If you delay or postpone then it's negated.

Berz out.

SumAznGuy · 11-16-2016, 09:09 AM

Never used this argument in court before but hope this helps.
Raising a Charter Issue in Traffic Court | DriveSmartBC

I think your best bet is to consult an actual lawyer as opposed to asking RS and getting a response like Zedbra's.

ChaKo · 11-16-2016, 10:30 AM

There is case law that indicates that a period of 14 to 18 months is an acceptable period of delay in instances of institutional delay; however, the truth is, that is just a guideline and there really is no hard and fast rule.

In your case, you would likely have to show that there is a fear of actual prejudice/harm occasioned by the delay and it is not simply a general assertion that memories fade over time.

sho_bc · 11-20-2016, 04:07 PM

It depends on the courts in your jurisdiction. In Richmond, 18+ months was the norm for a ticket to get to trial. Here in my area of the north, Traffic court is only once a month (I think?) and there aren't a lot of disputed tickets, so trials are set within ~6-8 months.

parm104 · 11-21-2016, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaKo

In your case, you would likely have to show that there is a fear of actual prejudice/harm occasioned by the delay and it is not simply a general assertion that memories fade over time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sho_bc

It depends on the courts in your jurisdiction. In Richmond, 18+ months was the norm for a ticket to get to trial. Here in my area of the north, Traffic court is only once a month (I think?) and there aren't a lot of disputed tickets, so trials are set within ~6-8 months.

These guys hit it. The most important thing you'll have to determine first is whether or not you can show that you've been effected by prejudice in the legal system. Will the outcome of the hearing be different in your case because of your delay? How so? Prejudice that the courts look for are the types that risk your liberty or your ability to make a full answer or defence to your charge. In which case, you have a tougher case to show that you will experience prejudice since it's a simple light bar infraction.

Although it doesn't specifically say 11b is for criminal charges only, I believe the thought behind this right was to ensure that you're not held in prison waiting for trial or your fear of being incarcerated isn't prolonged any more than it needs to be. This can have serious effects on an accused. The anxiety of having a motor vehicle infraction isn't really along the same lines. This might be the reason why you are not given points, fines or suspensions while your traffic violation is being scheduled and awaiting to be heard before a court; an effort to minimize any undue hardships you may experience by waiting a long time for your hearing.

The courts also look at the jurisdictional resources to determine what is reasonable and what is not. A jurisdiction with one judge will likely have a different standard of reasonableness than a jurisdiction that has enough resources to be able to provide you with a speedy opportunity to be heard before a judiciary. (it's late and I'm tired so I apologize if what I'm saying is all over the place.)

MG1 · 11-21-2016, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Berzerker

Anyone have experience with an 11b claim on a ticket dispute? I finally got notice for a dispute (light bar) and the court date will be 13.5 months after the violation ticket was issued.

Section 11(b) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the right to a trial within a reasonable period of time.

Berz out.

I recall doing this a long time ago. I challenged it in court and won. Not sure what the procedure is nowadays, but back then, you had to inform the detachment or officer who wrote the ticket that you intend to argue under the statute within 14 days of the trial date. I think you had to submit it in writing. I did that and when the court date came up and I stood in front of her worship, she asked the police officer if crown had a representative (I think the officer just being there was not enough). He said no, so the ticket got thrown out.

That's all I remember. I researched the procedure and found the details on a site called FYST (Fight Your Speeding Ticket).

EDIT: found the site..........

http://fyst.ca

If you read the "important notice about this site," you'll see that the original site is no longer there. I remember the original link having the magma part in the URL.

http://www.magma.ca/~fyst

I recall the original site had more content......... although memory nowadays isn't as good as it used to be.

sho_bc · 11-21-2016, 07:11 AM

That's correct. You have to make a Charter challenge at the court registry. The matter then goes before a provincial court judge with police being represented by Crown (instead of acting on behalf of crown in traffic court). Unless you have experience in the courtroom and with Charter challenges, it's recommended that you obtain a lawyer.

If the challenge is successful, the ticket is tossed. If unsuccessful, the trial may take place right away in front of the judge, or it may be sent back to traffic court at another date.